What we had to say being censored at ExpatForum.com led us to form the Isaac Brock Society!
They have now posted information from American Citizens Abroad. Are they waking up?
American tax officials accused of targeting expats
The complete ACA letter referred to is ACA Final Letter to Treasury-IRS, July 19, 2013.
@Johnson, you’re probably correct. In fact, had I not been able to find an affordable tax preparer, I was seriously considering filing simplified returns prospectively or perhaps amending up to six years.
I’d guess that even with Fatca they’re probably not going to go after minnows who’ve at least honestly declared all their worldwide income and foreign accounts. However, I believe full compliance is necessary (8621s, 3520, etc.) to be able to technically avoid covered status when filing 8854. This is where people like Calgary and myself will enjoy more peace of mind even though we’ve paid out thousands and thousands in professional fees.
@northernstar, the color of money is green. Money buys influence and power. Thurgood Marshall said (in a different context) “.. there’s no difference between a white snake and a black snake. They’ll both bite.”…” http://www.nytimes.com/1991/06/29/us/marshall-urges-bush-to-pick-the-best.html . Thus any hope that Obama would be different was based on superficial physiologic differences which have specific meaning in the US social, political and historical context, but which did not apparently have the hoped for effect of making him more sensitive to or concerned with issues of justice – no matter what he said about his past community activities and his campaign promises http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=78283 .
Equality demands that he be allowed to support the same entrenched and vested interests in the US as someone with a different background. In short, he has the same right to be a flawed human with his eye on the main chance as any other American – and any other US politician. I doubt that any other Democratic candidate or any other Republican candidate would have shown any more insight into our particular issues. Witness the glaring lack of support for a presidential commission to look into the issues that expats face. We are of little or no concern to most people and politicians inside the US (except as fundraisers and campaign contributors abroad http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-08-27/business/sns-rt-usa-campaignobama-clooney-update-1-tvl5e8jrmsh-20120827_1_obama-victory-fund-fundraiser-obama-campaign http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77744.html ). Even the existence of a close relative by marriage who is a Canadian http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2008/06/18/f-ng.html , and who lived here until recently has not made any difference to Obama’s insight into the issues that those abroad face. It has not made any difference in the way that > 1 million Canadians and others abroad with ‘US taxable person’ status are being treated. This despite his campaign promises in 2008 that Americans abroad were a group of special concern to him and the Democrats. He pledged to look into our issues http://obama.3cdn.net/610c7f29ee85b124a3_3cm6bxltu.pdf and pledged that; “…Concerns of Americans Living Abroad: Obama believes it is important to understand the role of
Americans abroad in determining U.S. policy. Obama will work with members of the Americans abroad community and the U.S. embassies to determine how the U.S. government can be responsive to the concernsof overseas Americans. As a U.S. Senator, Obama has taken seriously the concerns of all Illinoisans, whether they are currently in Illinois or not. As president, Obama will work to establish a direct dialogue with Americans abroad…”. This pledge was dropped from the last campaign, and there is no evidence that Obama or the Democrats meant it, and they certainly haven’t done anything to show that it was anything more than empty rhetoric.
The DemoRepubs need money to feed the huge US deficit, and to pay for more wars abroad and make up for the money they are not collecting from all those corporations registered in the state of Delaware http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 ….
We don’t have any significant voice or influence in the US, and though those who live in the US, or have significant US ties shouldn’t give up and stop trying to influence their US representatives, since every little bit of pressure helps (within and without), I doubt that will turn the tide.
Renouncing seems to have been the only thing that has made any impact.
@Johnson and calgary411,
Even now, some filers and accountants are still filing prospectively or backfiling quietly I am sure. The advice at the Expat Forum seemed to me to oversimplify in several cases (like just ballparking or just overestimating balances for FBAR reporting), but perhaps that has been working for most people due to the IRS inability to scrutinize everyone.
Certainly following IRS past advice to the letter (ex. that the OVD programs and ‘loud’ disclosures were the only acceptable method of ‘coming into compliance’) has caused unnecessary pain and harm for minnows.
Remember the FS of December 2011? Along with that, there was general info floating around that the IRS was simply accepting the Canadian “quiet disclosures.” I guess because at that point, we were making the most noise. I filed my first 4 years then and did my son’s the same way in January of this year. We’ve heard nothing back from the IRS, and sent his 2012 tax and info returns on due date. He renounced without any problems on June 25. I would be willing to bet there is no problem in doing this and all the talk of streamlined and so on, is not necessarily the right way to go. I know they are up to date on my tax forms as I got a bill for a small amount owing on my final 1040NR and a letter from Utah telling me my 3520’s had been processed and that they didn’t need anything else from me. I don’t know what to think about 8854.
OTOH, I still hear that there are boxes and boxes of FUBARs sitting in the basement of the Detroit office. I only ever worried about FUBAR. I expect it will be years before they can actually process them all and that they had not planned for the response they got.
@badger
You spoke such truth.
I feel I am back to 1969 August . I hated leaving the USA but knew it was the only solution because it no longer was the country I wanted to live it. Once again I see it this way again. It was just a mirage, an illusion in 2008 November. Somehow I will survive.
@northernstar, hang in there.
@nobledreamer, I think you are right. The accountants that I spoke with said that their clients had not had any problems.
Noble, thank you for bringing this up. I think I am going to quiet file. If I pay out the money asked to a very expensive preparer and go into Streamlined my spouse is going to have issues with me and I wouldn’t blame him. I feel like I’m stealing from my Canadian family to go into Streamlined. I wish I could justify it in order to feel totally free of them for good but, I cannot. If I am assessed penalty on paperwork for quiet filing I just won’t go back as hard as that will be. It will be awful to have to tell my family that some of whom will NOT be supportive but, it is what it is. I cannot please everyone in this situation. I cannot get right with the U.S. gods AND be right with my Canadian family. I feel I have to quiet file. A few choice words come to m ind at this point but, I will refrain from saying them of course.
@Atticus,
I’m sure you have thought this through, but why the hurry to file? You can still cross on your Canadian passport – people do it every day. If asked if you are up to date on your filing which is rarely if ever asked, you can truthfully say ‘yes’ since you have no income to report.
Atticus, ‘fbars’ are not US tax returns, and no border guard is going to ask you if you have filed fbars. If they do, I am sure you can come up with a creative response.
Im not trying to tell you what to do, I just think that a lot of people are unnecessarily panicking and spending unnecessary time and money, not to mention putting a potential bulls eye on themselves by filing and renouncing.
@Atticus, re “…I feel like I’m stealing from my Canadian family to go into Streamlined. I wish I could justify it in order to feel totally free of them for good but, I cannot. If I am assessed penalty on paperwork for quiet filing I just won’t go back as hard as that will be. It will be awful to have to tell my family that some of whom will NOT be supportive but, it is what it is. I cannot please everyone in this situation. I cannot get right with the U.S. gods AND be right with my Canadian family….
I empathize. Been there. Precisely the problem. Complying with the ‘US gods’ in the ‘noisy’ manner they demanded hurts our Canadian families. The US family should understand, and should be lobbying for us too.
Hang in there. Just don’t jump into your eventual decision through fear and anxiety. That has it’s own dangers. Each situation different. Behind the scenes, they’re trying to figure out what to do with the thousands they have to process so far.
@AtticusinCanada
I must be missing something. You seem to be saying the choice is between paying a preparer big $$ for streamlined vs a DIY (and thus inexpensive) quiet filing.
Why don’t you do a DIY (and thus inexpensive) streamlined?
FWIW I filed five years of simple back returns (“What is this PFIC of which you speak?”) as part of the homework for renouncing, and never heard back from them other than the economic stimulus cheque.
@Atticus
If you are not owing tax, which I believe from our conversations you are not, there is nothing to penalize. Not even a failure to file penalty. Even if they decided to penalize you for FBAR, the deal is supposed to be if you owe no tax, even if late FBARs, no penalty.
However, don’t forget that once you renounce, the clock is ticking toward the need to deal with filing. If your current appointment takes place, you will have to deal with 8854 (and thus, the rest of it) by June 30 2014.
To date, I have heard not one report of anyone being hassled at the border because of renunciation. Not one. I understand, indeed I do, the fear but it may be one of those aspects that we (understandably) overreacted to way back when.
Hope this is helpful.
@Tricia, I believe the no penalty guarantee is only through Streamlined, and only if not deemed ‘high-risk”
@WhiteKat
You are probably right. I am thinking of the situation as it was when I filed (December 2011), based upon FS-2011-13, December 2011. The “open invitation” to file quietly.
I appreciate that you have pointed that out. I think it is very important to state facts correctly especially as we gain more visibility. Thank you!