Some may want to keep an eye on this October 2013 conference in San Diego which will focus on Canada/US/Mexico. One of the panels will have the Canadian Taxpayer Ombudsman, the US Taxpayer Advocate (Nina Olson), and the Mexican Taxpayer Advocate. Moderating that panel will be Roy Berg, Moodys Tax Advisors in Calgary.
From the Canadian Taxpayer Ombudsman, Government of Canada Taxpayers’ Ombudsman — Upholding Your Service Rights:
Information for Canadian citizens that are subject to American tax laws
Thank you for posting this! I am glad to see such a conference! Great catch!
Yes, good find Calgary411.
Nina Olson, although just about our only friend in the US government still has the job of facilitating US law. She can’t be trusted to advocate on our behalf for the end of CBT.
Why is there a FATCA section on the CRA Ombudsman page?
So far, there is no IGA between Canada and the US, unless this is an oblique update. The page notes “Date Modified: 2013-08-15 ” . There is also nothing about the fact that the Canadian federal government has said that they wouldn’t help the US enforce and collect FBAR penalties on anyone in Canada. Shouldn’t Flaherty’s promises be on this CRA page too?
see;
http://www.oto-boc.gc.ca/fbrftc-eng.html
“What is FATCA?
The FATCA was enacted in 2010 by the United States Congress to target non-compliance by US taxpayers using foreign accounts. FATCA requires foreign financial institutions to report information to the IRS about financial accounts held by American taxpayers, or by foreign entities in which taxpayers hold a substantial ownership interest.
To read the regulations and administrative guidance related to FATCA or to learn more about taxpayer obligations as a Canadian citizen, having previously lived or worked in the US, please visit the IRS FATCA Web page”
“While the implications of, and procedures for, these US tax laws do not fall within the mandate of the Taxpayers’ Ombudsman, our office is committed to ensuring Canadian taxpayers receive clear information on issues that may have a negative impact and directing Canadian taxpayers to the appropriate area for assistance in meeting their tax obligations.”
A pox on the Taxpapyers’ Ombudsman. Fat lot of good that office is doing for us. They’re happy to tell us to comply but obviously won’t advocate against a blatant assault on our privacy and Canadian assets. (sigh) And “may have a negative impact”? What an understatement!
Surely the CRA Ombudsman could go as far as Flaherty has in previous statements such as this:
……”…….We have also been clear that penalties imposed by the IRS under FBAR will not be collected by the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) on behalf of the IRS.
While the Canada‑United States Income Tax Convention contains a provision that allows for the collection of taxes imposed by another country, this does not apply to penalties imposed under laws that impose only a reporting requirement.
Furthermore, our Government has been clear that CRA does not and will not collect the U.S. tax liability of a Canadian citizen if the individual was a Canadian citizen at the time (whether or not the individual was also a U.S. citizen at that time).
Many individuals are also concerned that the investment or interest income earned in their Canadian Tax-Free Savings Accounts (TFSAs) and Registered Disability Savings Plans (RDSPs) may be subject to U.S. tax.
While TFSAs and RDSPs – both introduced by our Government in recent years – do not yet receive an exemption from U.S. income tax under the existing Canada-United States Income Tax Convention, the Government will argue for such an exemption as the Convention is renegotiated with the United States….”
See more at: http://www.carp.ca/2012/06/15/minister-flaherty-canada-continues-to-press-for-fair-tax-deal-with-united-states/2/#sthash.E1yDC7Wi.dpuf
@ badger
It looks like the banks, the CRA and the Taxpayers’ Ombudsman have been given a heads up on the IGA. But for those of us whose heads are on the chopping blocks there is nothing but silence and suspense. I think the famous Flaherty promise will soon be infamous. If the government thinks it can hide it or deny it then it should just rethink that strategy. We’re not going to let Flaherty or the government off the hook on this.
It’s also important we make the Conservative government understand that if they help the US of Arrogance in any way to wipe us out financially (many tens of thousands of us), we’ll have no choice but to vote Liberal…..for 2 reasons. One is to punish them for not standing up for us, and second, in our old age we’ll be way more dependent on government social programs that the Liberals are more likely to champion.
It really pains me to write this, as I am a very fiscally responsible small-C conservative and I always thought that I was preparing myself well for retirement through diligent savings and doing without many luxuries in doing so. Damn….I should have just pissed it all away! So much for my Canadian dream.
The link to the Dept of Finance and Kevin Shoom is a mere formality? I wonder how much he gets paid taking input the government has no use for.
@Pierre, I have written exactly that to my MP and to Flaherty before. That amount it takes to be in compliance for a family like mine is the knife edge difference between having a meager old age but, getting by and ending up on assistance. I’ve tried to drive that point home. So, they can go along with this if they like but, they better get prepared for some of us to have no choice but, to cost them even more. I don’t know how much of that sinks in with them since the people I’m writing to are rich and no doubt have no idea what on earth I’m talking about in reality.
@bubblebustin, cynicism and suspicion is the appropriate way to read anything that touches these issues.
I envision IBS stalwarts on the streets of Ottawa with placard sized copies of the Flaherty statements, and the Hansard recorded answers of the CRA and other federal agency responses to MP Mai’s questions re FATCA, FBAR, etc,
@ bubblebustin
Are you saying Kevin Shoom sent us all those lovely “thank you and there, there” e-mails and then put our input into the e-shredder? I am this cynical but I really hate myself for being this cynical.
@Em, then a little joke for you. “Start off every day with a smile and get it over with.” W.C. Fields lol
I don’t know WTF to think. The mere mention of FATCA by the government of Canada makes me think they’re on board with it. For most of us, nothing short of an upright middle finger would be satisfactory, however, they are in the business of diplomacy, whatever that’s worth concerning FATCA.
@ AtticusinCanada
And I’ll give you the nightly prayer I suggested recently to WhiteKat when she wrote about the mattress method of preserving one’s assets …
Now I lay me down to sleep
I pray the bed
My dough will keep.
If I should die before I wake
I pray from tax
My cash escapes.
I try to keep smiling but some days it just gets to me.
Badger — thank you once again for all you provide to this site!
I have just submitted the following at http://www.oto-boc.gc.ca/systmc_nqrs/cmmnts-eng.html.
Thanks Em! At least we can joke about being cynical..yeah, it gets to me too. I keep trying but, deep down I really think we’re going to get sold out.
Harper is cooking up perogies again — won’t be out of the boiling pot until October. The IGA silence and suspense will continue and then it will be hurry, hurry, ding, ding to meet the latest FATCA deadlines.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/08/19/harper-to-prorogue-parliament-until-october-says-hell-lead-tories-in-2015-election/
Thanks, Em.
And, Blaze has just done a post regarding this at Maple Sandbox: http://maplesandbox.ca/2013/harper-is-proroguing-parliament-what-will-this-mean-for-fatca/#comments
Harper is going to have to employ an army of speech writers to get himself out of the corner if Canada signs that IGA. They’ll need to have been working all summer. I don’t see how without claiming we are somehow in the wrong he can frame going along with FATCA as ANY sort of a good thing for Canada.If he does that it will come back to bite him and he has to know that. Flaherty too. I’m surprised he’s still there since it looks like Canada is going to sign. Canada’s IGA won’t be any better than the rest of them since the U.S. has not backed down in any way for anyone else. October is not soon enough and it’s disgraceful if he’s going to sign and knows it that he is leaving so many hanging on this way.
Did you read petty Trudeau, comment first line was tax evasion.
If the EU stood up to Obama this would never have happened.
AtticusinCanada, an IGA still has to go before Parliament before it’s “official”. It’s no different here than in other countries with a signed IGA’s that can’t become “law” without a sign-off by the elected body.
I was reading a comment from Tim on Maple Sandbox (on a post about the 6 month delay) and he stated that signs point to nothing happening on the IGA front this year and that it could even be 2015 before anything hits the books officially, which makes sense. Even though Trudeau and his Libs are just as big a lapdog to Uncle Sam as Harper and crew, Harper won’t want to give Trudeau an issue that could potentially make him seem like a collaborator in terms of handing Canada over to the USA. The average Canadian may care little about the plight of “tax evading USP’s” but he/she cares a whole lot about the idea of our supposed sovereignty (personally, I wonder about that. Take the current Verizon incursion into the Canadian market. Harper sanctioned and it’s just as much about profit as it is about allowing the NSA greater access to Canadian’s privacy.)
If nothing else, it gives more USP’s a chance to escape via renouncing or relinquishing.
I am still “in processing” for citizenship but my plans are to alert the nearest consulate prior to taking citizenship of the fact that I sought it with the intent to give up my US personhood. I had thought to wait on my minor child, but she is adamant that we both take the oath with intent. She even wants to be recorded for future reference. Makes one question the whole idea that minors can’t understand what they are “giving up”.
I don’t care if they never have a snowballs chance in hades of winning. I’m voting Green from now on. At least they have some members who have come out strongly against FATCA. The NDP did to but, mostly in B.C. where I do not live. The liberals have been wishy washy or silent. The only way I will vote conservative against most things I believe in is if Harper ends up flatly saying “no” to FATCA. If not then Green it is for me unless someone else speaks out and strongly so.
YogaGirl says
“If nothing else, it gives more USP’s a chance to escape via renouncing or relinquishing.”
Is Sept 6th 2013 soon enough? I am the lucky one, booked early for Vancouver last November. I do not trust the USA Congress to do anything for US expats in Canada, after all we people in Canada do not elect any of them. Also I am a democrat in my past life and Obama will not do anything for or against our situation. He has not done anything for or against since he got the peace prize (why?).
@Em,
love that rhyme!
This is the best I could do;
The US steals from me and mine
Imposes FBAR, FATCA fines
On post-tax loonies they seek to dine
So best renounce we all opine.
@calgary411,
That was a brilliant idea! Will be interesting to see what the reply is, if any.
@Em and @Atticus,
We’ve already come so much further than anyone could have foreseen back in 2011. I keep telling myself what Tim (?) reminded us from time to time – to remember that it is a marathon, not a sprint.
Hang in there.
take care.