@VictoriaFerauge "On being American" http://t.co/2cadr0QECl interesting read if u feel u are forced to #expatriate by @Barackobama admin
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) August 3, 2013
Very nice post from @MopsickTaxLaw http://t.co/p45vzhb7Cb "What it means to be an American" – Never forget US is more than the government.
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) August 3, 2013
The posts referenced in the above tweets are interesting and are “food for thought” for those American Abroad considering renouncing U.S. citizenship.
On Being An American.” I trashed a draft blog of my own “on being an American” which I was struggling with before the Fourth of July. I was searching for words to express the feeling Victoria captured so eloquently below which I am sure has resonated with Americans abroad.
And Victoria’s post – On being an American – includes:
I had an epiphany the other day. I may have spent most of my adult life outside the U.S. but I was born and raised here in Seattle. No one can take away the first 20 years or so of my life. I am an American and will always be one even if I decide to forgo the pretty blue passport. Cutting ties by relinquishing/renouncing will mean cutting my ties to a political community but here’s the kicker: America is so much more than that.There is a nation beyond the government and perhaps it’s time to start putting the people above the state. Yes, if I renounce I would no longer be an American citizen, but I would still be an American by culture, blood, language, and inclination. I am part of the collective memory of this country and no one on this planet (not the US Congress or the President or the homelanders) can take that away from me.
And they can’t take it away from anyone else either. To the Canadian/American reader who left a comment about how distressed she was about giving up her U.S. citizenship, I’d just like to say that as far as I’m concerned she’s an American as long as she wants to be one with or without her U.S. passport. So she won’t be able to vote anymore in US elections. Big deal. It’s not like American citizens themselves do that with any regularity.
Thinking about it this way makes me much more serene about the whole business. What do you think of this motto for those of us thinking about renouncing? “Forget the state and just be a child of the nation.”
America is clearly more than the government. That said, the question of “What is America?” is different from the question of “What is an American?”
The question is:
What does it mean to be an American? It must have some meaning if one is “an American as long as she wants to be”. This implies that “being American” is somehow different from the political community or the country as a larger entity. What exactly is “the nation beyond the government” and what does it mean to be an “American”?
Is it really true that “renouncing citizenship” means only cutting ties to the political community? Isn’t the problem that Americans abroad have no ties to the political community to begin with? There are no ties to cut.
I believe that Victoria is saying that the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship should not “diminish your personal identity”. True enough. If you want to think of yourself as an American that’s fine. Nobody can take that away from you. This is important. Why? Because the Obama “Witch Hunt” against U.S. citizens abroad has forced people to reevaluate many of their fundamental assumptions. Few Americans abroad still view the United States as “that great citadel of freedom and justice”. Few Americans abroad see themselves as “tax cheats” because they have offshore accounts. As a former professor of mine once said:
“Citizenship is part of who you are.”
If you cease to be a citizen, do you cease to be less of who you are?
Some believe that if they cease to be U.S. citizens they will become less of what they believed they were. Many Americans abroad are experiencing a crisis of identity. Who are they? What is the United States of America?
But, again, what is an American? Does it have a meaning? Is it anything you want it to be?
Thinking about his reminds me of an earlier post by FoxyLadyHawk titled:
Why I will not renounceHe/she writes:
What is exceptional about America is not that the people are better, or that the government is wiser, or even that it is the richest and most powerful nation in the world – for now. Empires rise, and inevitably they fall. What is exceptional is the form of government, based on the documents we all know about: the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, powerfully reiterated by the Gettysburg Address. What is exceptional is the system of checks and balances, and the means of amending the Constitution, which were designed to keep the government in check and maximize the freedom of the people to live their lives as they please.
America is exceptional because it is the only country that was built on an idea, and that idea implies a promise. The idea is that all men and all women are created free and equal and that a proper government is one made up of freely elected peers, in which any citizen – * any * citizen – may run for public office. The promise is that because of that idea, anyone has the right to do whatever he or she chooses to do in order to improve her lot in life and live as she wishes, beholden to no monarch or officer or class structure for her future or her fortune. She is not promised happiness – only the lifelong freedom, the natural-born right to pursue it in her own way.
It’s interesting to go back and read the comments to the above post. It’s almost two years old. Have people’s views changed?
The “Why I will not renounce” analysis assumes that America is a true democracy. A democracy where citizens participate it the political process. A democracy where where candidates represent the interests of the voters and not the political parties. Surely true democracy requires more than the right to vote. Incredibly there are certain situations where U.S. citizens abroad do NOT have the right to vote.
What does this suggest about being an American? Is it that as an American you are a member of an elite and privileged group who is free and able to choose what one wants in one’s life? This is not true for Americans abroad. Furthermore, this does not separate the idea of being “American” from “America”.
Is it really possible to renounce U.S. citizenship and still be an “American”?
In his 2013 State of the Union Address President Obama commenting (if he knew what was in his speech) on the meaning of citizenship said:
We are citizens. It’s a word that doesn’t just describe our nationality or legal status. It describes the way we’re made. It describes what we believe. It captures the enduring idea that this country only works when we accept certain obligations to one another and to future generations; that our rights are wrapped up in the rights of others; and that well into our third century as a nation, it remains the task of us all, as citizens of these United States, to be the authors of the next great chapter in our American story.
In fairness, I would say that he does try to separate the idea of “citizenship” from government or the political community at large. Is he suggesting that all American citizens are somehow American? He doesn’t say that if you are NOT a citizen that you are not American. But, would renouncing U.S. citizenship make you less of an American?
Patriotism and being an American
Must one be patriotic to be a real American? Could renouncing U.S. citizenship be an act of patriotism?
So, what is an American?
I don’t know. The answer to this question is way above my “pay grade”. But, it does seem to me that that there must be some meaning (beyond paying taxes) to be being “American”. If you think of yourself as American, it might be worth considering what that means.
82 thoughts on “What is an American? Forget the state and just be a child of the nation – but what does this mean?”
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I can’t name another country’s citizenship that is as toxic to its expats as the US’s, can you? Great place to be #1, America!
US citizens are being openly persecuted by their government, it shouldn’t matter that those citizens happen to live abroad. If it’s not persecution then the US is nothing more than a prison for which we are being punished for escaping or happened to be born outside of.
Maybe we should debate the following:
1. US persons abroad are suffering at the hands of the US Government:
a) yes
b) no
If you answered ‘yes’ go to question 2:
2. Is the treatment of US persons abroad by the USG:
a) punishment
b) persecution
c) neither
d) other
We know that punishment is justified for having committed some offence, whereas persecution is being caused to suffer for unjustifiable reasons.
To many none of these scenarios matter, as renunciation of US citizenship for any of the above is the only solution for them, but for those of us like Victoria who feel we need to exhaust all other avenues before we renounce, knowing which action by the USG we are being subjected to may play an important part in how we will advocate for others to view us as. Can the US government justify either punishing or victimizing its citizens for living abroad?
I agree with Victoria that being American goes beyond the USG’s technical claim to you, which is why the reverse is true as well. You can be technically a USC but not be American at all.
I dont know what defines someone as an American, all I know is that I stopped considering myself one almost 30 years ago.
It just took me until last year to make it official.
How about another question … “what is it to be a free, proud and moral human being, and where and under what circumstances can I best be that person?” I think the answer to that question is far, far more important than the answer to the question “what is it to be an American” or even “what is it to be a Canadian” or a Swiss or a German or whatever. And obviously different people, in different circumstances and with a different personal history, will have different answers to my original question.
wow-teary eyed or what. thanks so much to Victoria F and Stephen M for this post/repost,. it made me feel a lot better about renouncing. I am still USP in heart and mind (and accent!)
@bubblebustin. right on target but I think you may want to add another option to your decision tree…. see “e” below 🙂
2. Is the treatment of US persons abroad by the USG:
a) punishment
b) persecution
c) neither
d) other
e) BOTH!!
We know that punishment is justified for having committed some offence, whereas persecution is being caused to suffer for unjustifiable reasons.
I don’t identify with today’s meaning of “American” in most instances. There are many Americans from my past I do identify with but, people such as they were are few and far between in that country today. It’s so polarized, it’s seems like an oddity among civilized nations. I find my self just feeling a disconnected sadness when I see them debating among themselves. They are for the most part very ill informed on many issues all over the world yet think they know everything. Not that there aren’t good people there but, I am not one of “them” in my heart anymore. Victoria is right that you will always be a product of your childhood and no one can separate that from your being. Past experiences DO factor into who you are and no piece of paper can change that.
I’m grateful for many things in my childhood but, equally grateful i had the chance to leave that all behind to find who I really AM in Canada. I belong here. It was meant to be and so even though I’m forced to give up my birthright, I can accept it. As an adult I don’t find myself able to fit in there anyway. I just don’t “get” their world view and for the most part they don’t “get” mine. All this has done is force physical action on a truth that was already there.
@crystal london
I thought about the ‘both’ option, but the point I’m struggling to make is that you can’t have both. The USG either intends to punish us (for which they are obligated to provide us with a reason for doing) or they must be made to admit that their policies persecute their own citizens (and therefore have an obligation to change them). Can US lawmakers argue that US citizens abroad aren’t suffering due to US policy? It’s doubtful.
During my renunciation ceremony I told the Embassy consular that I was renouncing my “US citizenship” but I would never renounce being an “American.” The consular silently looked at me with an expression of uncomfortable confusion and sadness.
To me, being American is believing in the ideology laid out in Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights. It is the common thread that binds most Americans, at least it used to anyway.
At first, the thought of renouncing US citizenship was emotionally unthinkable. However, once I was able to make a distinction between being an “American” and being a “US citizen” who was being ruled by a tyrannical government which had essentially hijacked the freedoms away from the American people while also taking cruel pleasure in punishing Americans who had the audacity of moving away from the Homeland, I was able to go through with raising my right hand and reciting the oath of renunciation as it was read to me.
I will always be American, but I will never again be a citizen of an abusive narcissistic government, which is exactly what the US government has become.
The “America” that I once knew is long gone. It is just the “United States” now, another abusive empire that will continue to obliviously spend itself into economic ruin and eventually unravel from within.
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I am not sure this is the best spot to post this, but as Victoria’s post on “Being an American” is part of this thread – here goes.
Yesterday, I had the privilege of meeting with Victoria for lunch. It took a French woman to organize some west coast brockers to get together. Besides Victoria and myself, there was also Kermit, tdott, bubblebustin, and Arrow. One of the things I came away with was, that, although all of us had different stories (I have my CLN already, Arrow’s wife has hers – Kermit is soon having his 2nd appointment for renouncing and the others are becoming compliant and will then make decisions), we were all able to understand the pain and angst of the others.
This is the first time since I became aware of this mess (in 2011) that I have actually felt kinship and empathy. Yes, my friends and family in some cases expressed concern and interest. And in other cases, I felt their exasperation with me and my fixation on all of this. In many ways, I have felt the last 18 months to be a grieving process, not unlike, the grieving I did after my husband died. Like then, people sympathized, but it wasn’t until I joined a Widows’ Network and met other widows that I felt empathy.
Yesterday, was the first time in more than 18 months that I really felt perhaps I am who I always thought I was – that is, no longer an American citizen but perhaps still an American in my heart, while being a Canadian through and through.
So thank you, Victoria, for organizing us ‘Wet Coasters’
…and thank you Tiger for writing about it. It was a real pleasure meeting a few Brockers and being among those who truly know what we are experiencing and for the rare opportunity to be able to speak without having to curb my ‘enthusiasm’. The weather was glorious as we enjoyed lunch at the Vancouver Art Gallery. The only thing that could have made it better was for a double rainbow to have appeared 🙂
Jane Jacobs relinquished in 1974 as a pre-Vance vs. Terrazas naturalized Canadian. I was looking tonight for something James Howard Kuntzler wrote about it, how her style remained American in the best sense (having has the privilege of seeing her in action toward the end of her life, I know what he meant) but turned this up instead (letter from Toronto, April 18, 1974):
@Victoria – you might enjoy her – she was funny and wise, and Toronto is poorer without her. Ideas that Matter isn’t the worst starting point.
I am the Kermit that was at the meeting initiated by Victoria in Vancouver yesterday. My main comment is that nobody knew each other by face, so we spent 15 minutes in two groups in the hotel lobby not knowing who the rest were. But at lunch everybody mostly knew each others stories. This social media is kind of ethospheric. We live different lives in the cloud.
Also I know as tiger says, the human connection is most important. Because I am an academic and Canadian Universities often hire Americans, I have ranted to at least a half dozen colleagues across Canada, none do anything, it is much better to know people who have done something or will do something, like yesterday. Everybody was so articulate and aware of the issues. I renounce exactly one month from today and now I have a list of possible reasons, if they should ask why I do this, the deepest response will be to copy Victoria’s comment on “being American”.
I’d also like to thank Victoria for getting us together yesterday. As tiger and bubblebustin said, it was quite something to be able to talk with others who know what we’re going through and what we’re up against. And being able to put faces to at least some Brockers that I’ve been reading for months now was just priceless.
Oh, I’ll support Obama alright. I want to take up a collection to get him and all his FATCA cronies a one-way ticket to luxury tropical destination hotspot: Ilha de Queimada Grande.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJBp1ASIRNY
Maybe the USAF can drop him and his FATCA cronies by parachute.
Hmmm… 1…2…3… Bingo…The_Animal is on the no-fly list. 😛
Just in case you’re wondering… Ilha de Queimada Grande is restricted. The Brazilian government has declared the area too dangerous to be habitable… This island harbors the worlds only population of “golden lancehead” vipers and the island is CRAWLING with them. The greatest place for money-grubbing snakes like B.O. and company.
I’m sorry I missed the event, tiger, bustin’. VAG sounds like a great place to hang out. Any Brockers south of the Fraser River?
Lately, I’ve been doing extensive research on my family and eventually, I might have collected enough data to make a nice contribution in this area. I’m the kin of people who fought in the civil war, the war for independence, WWII and maybe every American war. My ancestors likely helped to build many American cities and contributed to the settlement of the West. From this, I can say that I have a very impressive and proud family with strong American roots, which has an older American history than the American government. Most or all immigrated to America within the last 500 years and often for economic reasons.
As such, I’m certainly not a citizen of the US government, but my American ties are more American than the US government.
I used to be a cynic towards gubbermint, it was difficult to find anything as crazy as thing to exponentially increase those feelings.
I have no desire to fly the flags that I used to fly above my home. Unfortunately they all represent the governments and their kings and Emperor Obama.
@bubblebustin, re; “..The USG either intends to punish us (for which they are obligated to provide us with a reason for doing) or they must be made to admit that their policies persecute their own citizens (and therefore have an obligation to change them)…
It would give me a great deal of satisfaction to have irrefutable proof and official acknowledgement of one or the other, or both. What cowards those in the IRS and Treasury are. If they have the courage of their convictions, and believe that what they have done and are continuing to do is right and just, they should be able and willing to stand up and say so.
If not, then they should be willing and able to admit it, and make things right. But instead, they mostly continue on the same path, with some small course corrections due to pressure from the Taxpayer Advocate, and possibly due to political and diplomatic ripples from Canada and elsewhere. I am under no illusions that they will do anything substantial to clarify whether it is punishment, deliberate persecution, or both.
This is why I cannot applaud the entry in the Mopsick blog. I am certain that he knows or suspects much more of the details behind our persecution/punishment, and other issues like those alluded to in the comments by Bill Yates – Former Attorney, Office of Associate Chief Counsel (International), IRS in the interview by Virginia La Torre Jeker http://blogs.angloinfo.com/us-tax/2013/07/22/residence-based-taxation-interview-with-bill-yates-former-attorney-office-of-associate-chief-counsel-international-irs-2/ http://taxconnections.com/taxblog/fatca-interview-with-bill-yates-former-attorney-office-of-associate-chief-counsel-international-irs/ but won’t admit to what those entrails portend.
I gag on the part of the Mopsick blog entry where he notes his official approval – which I feel he extends paternalistically to Victoria and Lynn, noting how well they meet his personal standards of how much criticism and in what way one can rebuke the US government on these issues. Apparently more pointed criticism – however justified and irrefutable on our part, would apparently not be ‘professional’. Extorting tens of thousands or more from those abroad in legal and accounting fees, or in penalties apparently however is ‘professional’ on the part of the IRS – even if done so deliberately through threats and fear sowed needlessly amongst minnows and krill – many of whom have not owed the US a penny in taxes. And the rest, may owe only because of the evils of US extraterritorial citizenship-based taxation in essential conflict with the systems of the rest of the globe.
The Taxpayer Advocate could never be objectively criticized for not being ‘professional’, yet has been quite to the point and relentless in describing the injustice and shortcomings of the IRS when dealing with new immigrants to the US, and ‘international taxpayers’ filing from abroad.
Sorry, the Animal, why did I think you lived in Alberta?
born in Edmonton…moved out to Vancouver/Surrey in 1976. 🙂 My wife’s the American but I’m the one more nervous about this stuff than she is.
@To all, I can relate to Patrick Henry’s experience; when I renounced, I tried to emphasize that I was giving up my U.S. citizenship but would always love America itself in my heart. When she administered the oath, I believed by the sad but compassionate look in her eyes that she quietly understood why I was renouncing though I never overtly stated a reason.
Victoria’s article expressed all this so well: that we will continue to value what we understood America’s ideals to stand for. In that sense we continue to be true patriots. I also enjoy a unique empathy from this community whereas others really just don’t get it.
My family and friends understand the practicalities but still think I was over-reacting by my decision. My British spouse is, like Crystal’s, philosophical about all financial hit we’ve (actually I’ve) suffered but still thinks I could have just done an ostrich…but he forgets that I had already been filing so had to resolve it officially, as was now already in the system. I agree with those at the recent meeting in London that in many ways, people who’ve never actually filed at all are probably in a safer position than people having to amend past returns (even though the law may sound harsher to non-filers on paper).
I am pleased for Crystal that she has finally received her coveted CLN. I’m sure the relief she must feel is immense. But the way I see it, it will actually be after we’ve filed our final paper work next year that we can finally relax…
I am perplexed by this whole thing…as times goes on, actually feel less frightened of the IRS and FINCEN and actually more wary of the tax compliance industry who are obviously making a mint out of this whole fiasco!!! I thus feel essentially at the mercy of my accountant to ensure I can make a clean break.