18 thoughts on “Its Budget Submission Time in Canada, AGAIN”

1. @Tim,

   Can you suggest a reasonable-logical FATCA angle for a submission on this?

2. Yes, but not yet/now. I will have something in a few days.

3. Thanks

4. Would 2000 pre-budget submissions help?

   PR and real impact of these posted submissions are generally probably zero (a “gimmick”, see link below), but what if, say 2000 (not 20) submissions came from our side–and in a way that it was easily clear to “readers” that all came from angry US people in Canada (perhaps including even a few US persons from other countries describing their experiences and making a recommendation)?

   Can we do better than last year’s 800 posted budget submissions? 2000 out of 2800 total (71%) submissions would seem to be at least a minor embarassment for government.

   There were about 300 comments on the Globe article in a few days. Can 2000 angry US persons in Canada be found in one month to make these pre-budget submissions (which could be very short and take just a few minutes)? Where do these angry people hide?

   It appears that real names were used in last year’s submission but I do not know if this is a requirement–probably not, but perhaps blog-type names might not be accepted (see below last year posting).

   So, how many chances do we have to make a posting on a publicly available Canadian government web site?

   Submissions might not have possibility of even tiny impact unless it is easily apparent to readers that they were made by US people. Our full names might be something like: “Smith, Mary, ANGRY US PERSON IN CANADA or Smith, Jimmy, ANGRY CANADIAN SPOUSE OF US PERSON IN CANADA (or whatever) so that readers notice upfront, without any need to click on submission, that it is a (very angry) US-Canadian person that is complaining. Otherwise, few if any will ever know. [If Finance takes away the bylines, that action will be publicized.]

   “Budget” recommendations could be about keeping Canadian monies in Canada vs. US that would go for IGA-FATCA, IRS tax filing costs, TFSA, RDSP double taxes etc., recommendations that Flaherty amend/override tax treaty to reduce harms to Canadians of US citizen-based taxation including 3.8% Obamacare surtax on non-distributed RRSPs, etc. Keep the monies in Canada. All this is related to cost savings ideas–which is what government “wants.”

   OK, 2000 is ambitious, but submissions from some angry US-Canadian persons might be helpful, as long as they are very easily noticed and later publicized.

   Last year’s posting: http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=5709773

   Budget postings are just a gimmick: http://www.news1130.com/2013/07/01/electronic-consultations-with-canadians-preceding-federal-budgets-flop/

5. Thanks, IRSCompliantForever,

   Your post is important. Certainly, doing NOTHING will not make a difference.

6. I just got a form letter from my MP, John Weston, requesting I make another submission this year. I suspect that the letter was only generated because I submitted last year.
   Just a reminder to cc your MP when making a submission.
   Maybe a standardized letter sent by numerous people would get some attention? Any volunteers in drafting one, or perhaps a group effort?

7. Why not make a submission from the Isaac Brock Society?

8. There understandably seems to be no enthusiasm in making any of these low impact submissions, but I will submit a short proposal anyway (perhaps two simple recommendations) and draw attention to the fact that I am a US person.

   The focus of the budget submissions is dollar cost or savings. Could someone please suggest some reasonable numbers for me:?

   -I would like to know the reasonable yearly dollar cost savings (a range) for Canada/Canadians if the FATCA IGA is NOT signed off (first recommendation). Think broadly. Provide general breakdown of costs for a few major categories?

   -Assuming, in my unrealistic second recommendation that Canada, by applying political pressure, somehow convinces US to establish residence-based taxation to keep more monies in Canada, what might be the total dollar cost savings (yearly) of RBT for Canada/Canadians? Breakdown of costs into some major categories? One category for example for medical expenses re stress etc. to make a point?

9. Wow, I don’t have the slightest idea nor do I have any idea in where to start on the above-posted comment:

   What I do know is that any US person who starts a business must outside of the US must be filled with fear. If he is self-employed or owns 10% or more of any business in Canada or anywhere outside of the US, he must, in accordance with US law:

   1. Set up at least 3 separate accounting systems (sets of books); (a) one in the currency of the foreign country in accordance with the tax and other laws of that country, (b) one under US general accepted accounting practices (GAAP) in equivalent US dollars in order to comply with Section 6038 if the US tax code even if there is no business need for this and for which there is a $10,000 US penalty for failing to comply with this rule, and (c) another system for all other purposes in accordance with the US tax code.

   2. Foreign currency values must be converted to US dollar equivalent values on a daily exchange rate basis or on an average rate which requires following very complex IRS conversion rules which require persons with expertise in this area to calculate.

   3. Then of course the business income is subject to both taxation by the foreign country and by the IRS. Self-employment income is taxable when received whereas the US owner’s share of corporate income is taxed only when it is repatriated to the US. Money taken out of Canada to pay US taxes on Canadian-source income is money that will not be spent in Canada and thus has a real perceptible cost effect on the Canadian economy.

   How does this translate into costs to Canada? Certainly it does because it very effectively limits competition from business established in Canada by US persons. It is like a Berlin Wall, which just like the one in Germany manned by Stasi guards with machine guns, keeps US citizens from going abroad to set up businesses which, among other things, would be selling US made exports in Canada that beyond a shadow of a doubt would result in lower prices in Canada from more competition in that market.

   Persons from other nations do not have this same barrier established by their home countries against their citizens relocating abroad to Canada or anywhere else. There are lots of businesses in Canada run by persons from India, China, Cuba and practically everywhere else which can and are created and thrive, thus contributing to Canadian GDP in a way which American-owned businesses simply cannot do.

10. I can’t do pingbacks so I’m just bringing this into the recent comments stream because the deadline is August 5, 2013. I have to wonder if this is just a feel good formality that gets completely ignored. We went through the Finance Dept. submission exercise and yet all indications point to a signed FATCA IGA coming this fall. If it could be boiled down to one comprehensive recommendation what would that be? I’d probably suggest that since the Canadian government rejected Eritrea’s diaspora tax it would be appropriate for it to also reject the USA’s citzenship-based taxation claim on Canadian residents … but I know full well that pigs will never fly.

    http://www.parl.gc.ca/CommitteeBusiness/CommitteeHome.aspx?Cmte=FINA&Language=E

11. @Em

    If someone was to draft a submission that covers what we need to say, I’m sure that a few of us would send it in. Having something in the prescribed form (as ACA had as a tax reform proposal) would get attention if submitted by several people. There are so many good writers here…please…someone? I’d be more than happy to make another submission this year in this form, because they’ve already heard from me.

12. @ bubblebustin
    That ACA template for the Ways and Means committee certainly increased the ratio of our issue vs. other issues. If Brock could come up with something similar I’d certainly send it in too. Badger could write this in a flash, using only the middle finger on one hand. And it wouldn’t even sound snarky, like if I tried. My last e-mail to my MP didn’t even get me a cookie cutter response for that reason I think. I’m losing patience and it shows. 🙁

13. @Em
    We need to Badger the Canadian Government into hearing us! Badger’s not on this thread so I’ll post this on one where Badger’s contributing 🙂
    Any other volunteers for a template? USCitizenAbroad?

14. @ bubblebustin
    That’s either stalking or badgering … not sure which. 😉 All for a good cause of course.

15. Lol, Em. Let’s hope others will get on board. I would think even a few of the same submissions would garner some attention/restraining order 😉

16. If anyone is still interested in making these pre-budget submissions, here is a response I just received from the Committee clerk on the the type of “names” that can be used:

    –Submissions will only be accepted if the actual name of the person or organization is provided.

    –I was hoping that names could be provided with a qualifier in the text block (e.g., “Mary Smith, US person in Canada”) so that readers skimming through the list of 800 or so submissions would easily be able to appreciate the general issue; however, qualifiers in the text block are not allowed.

17. Although the Dept of Finance hasn’t yet released the 2014 pre-budget submissions (as far as I know), a search around the internet can turn up some of the submissions made. Here is one submitted by the Investment Funds Institute of Canada that urges the Canadian government to negotiate with the US to no longer designate Canadian mutual funds as PFIC’s (Recommendation 1):

    https://www.ific.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IFIC-Pre-Budget-Submission-2014-August-5-2013.pdf/5697/
    
    
    
    
    

    
    

18. Minister of Finance to Launch Pre-Budget Consultations in Toronto:

    http://www.fin.gc.ca/notices-avis13/2013-11-06-eng.asp