I received this email from my Enrolled Agent today!
”
Dear Valued Client,
The IRS and the Financial Crimes Enforcement Nework (FinCen) announced on Friday that paper FBARs will no longer be acceptedas of today, July 1, 2013. If you have not filed your 2012 FBAR yet and you intend to file it yourself, you will need to create an account at FinCen’s Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) e-filing website http://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/main.html to file your FBAR. After you create your account you will be given a PIN code. You must then logon to the website whose link you will receive via email, click on the FBAR link on the left side of the website and manually enter all of your FBAR data into the writeable pdf version of their FBAR form. I recommend you also save the FBAR to your computer before you click the button to e-file it.
Professional tax software programs are not yet capable of e-filing FBARs so professional tax preparers must manually enter your FBAR data into the FinCen website. We will be happy to do this for you, however due to the additional work and time involved, we must raise our fees for FBAR preparation to CHF 20 per account if we e-file the form for you. We will also just prepare a paper FBAR for you that you may copy into the FinCen website for our normal fee of CHF 10 per account.
The professional tax software companies are frantically working on a solution to allow professional tax preparers to e-file the FBARs directly from our software. As soon as such a solution is in place, our FBAR preparation and e-filing fee will return to CHF 10 per account.
Best regards,
“
Uncle,
Here is my témoignage:
System is clunky as hell. The form was bad enough but putting the paper version on-line made it worse. The country auto-fill – time consuming and not helpful. Version problems – it requires specific versions of Acrobat Reader. Never did get it to work on Mac and had to find a Windows machine instead. Stopped cold after I signed and tried to submit. Mail sent to the helpdesk with a gentle note that the system did not appear to be ready for the general public. Short note back telling me to strip the signature off and to submit again. Finally got it in on Sunday afternoon (sage began on Friday morning).
I used to do this for a living and if I were running that project and this was the result, heads would fly and there would be blood on the walls. 🙂
Yet another step in the wrong direction… More IRS abuse. They don’t want any of us living abroad to ever be compliant.
This is a re-post from about a week ago. Below is a list of the top 10 countries with the highest number of USCs outside the US, per Wiki “American Diaspora”, with their respective internet penetration. Countries such as Mexico, Philippines and Costa Rica have internet penetrations between 33.0% and 43.7%. Liberia, where a reported 160,000 Americans live, has an internet penetration of only 0.5%! USPs may have a difficult time filing FBARs electronically from these countries and elsewhere:
American Diaspora Top 10
Internet Penetration
Mexico 36.5%
Philippines 33.0%
Israel 70.4%
Liberia 0.5%
Canada 81.6%
Costa Rica 43.7%
S. Korea 82.7%
UK 84.1%
France 77.2%
Australia 89.8%
Wiki: “American Diaspora”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_diaspora
Internet World Stats:
http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm
@taxconfuzaled, techically, e-filing is probably safer than snail mail, when it works properly. However, since the INS has all the needed data already, all that one should have to do is to click the “submit” button on the INS site to approve of the data being submitted to treasury. Yet, since it must be submitted regardless if one approves of such or not, an INS submit button is also unnecessary and could also cause complications for the old, babies and developmentally disadvantaged who are not computer literate. So, the treasury should have offices in every city of the world where people can go to initiate the required INS to treasury data transfer when notified that such was not done automatically.
@Innocent, ah, this explains the nature for the latest hottest news from Ghana:
@Victoria: I used to do this for a living and if I were running that project and this was the result, heads would fly and there would be blood on the walls.
I still do this for a living. What impresses me about this electronic FBAR is that it was probably harder to make it this bad than it would have been to do it right (portable, maintainable, user-friendly). Early 1990’s HTML forms and plain ‘POST’ capture everything they want and run in any browser. But noooo, they had to use whizz-bang fillable PDF, tie themselves to Windows only, and from the sound of it add a bunch of dubious data format “validation” (as if one can validate a foreign address in any useful manner).
@UncleTell: We will be happy to do this for you…
A few years ago the UK accountancy firm I used (big-4, not some fly-by-night organization) refused point blank to handle FBAR forms at all, citing huge and untenable liability issues due to the insane penalties associated with the form.
Is it just me, or do others out there feel a significantly reduced force of gravity on their middle finger vis a vis the USA?
I called the helpdesk …. when I told them it wasn’t working from my Mac. They recommended I find a public library to make an entry via Internet Explorer & Windows!
Should we be surprised MacOS is not surprised?
This video might explain why Apples are not liked by IRS:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/05/21/rand_paul_apple_deserves_apology_from_us_government.html
For a country that REALLY want’s our FBAR’s, they’re making it as difficult as possible for us to get it to them. What the heck are my 74 year old parents supposed to do??? They’ve never touched a computer in their lives.
I sent mine by FedEx before the deadline. My suggestion for those of you who still have to file would have been to send a paper copy for 2012, and let them work out the bugs before June 30th 2014.
Re;
“……………They recommended I find a public library to make an entry via Internet Explorer & Windows!…….”
Yeah right. First there are many communities who still do not have internet access, or access reliable and fast enough to work.
Many public systems cannot afford the latest version of software and equipment – unlike the US Federal government.
There is the lack of ALL privacy and security at a public facility – including but not limited to public libraries. You’d be sitting there cheek by jowl with others looking at your screen and your personal banking information. Internet access is so in demand at public libraries that in large urban centres they use an automated session booking system that puts you into a queue for a session limited to one hour. The system cuts you off after the one hour limit is up. So, if you’re not finished, or have problems, all is lost. No way to save your session. No library staff is going to take on trying to assist with something of this nature – in addition to never having seen it before. The probability of glitches and conflicts with the security settings, software, etc. of the system is extremely high. Vulnerable people may be approached by ‘helpful’ strangers who will then have access to all their account numbers and locations.
That is apparently, just the price we have to pay for the privilege of having US status and living outside the US.
To add additional insult to injury.
Isn’t tha tblatant discrimination? NO US RESIDENT is forced to file an FBAR or equivalent sensitive information from public internet terminals, because they do not have to bank outside the US. They can bank where they live. We don’t live in Kansas, so we don’t bank in Kansas.
We are exposed to a risk that US homelanders do not have to face. They have the option to bank only in the US because they live there.
That the IRS and Treasury would make this mandatory with all the flaws, and without the option to have a preparer assist from their computers is the latest in the long list of egregious wrongs we suffer at the hands of the US.
I urge everyone to start submitting their complaints on this issue to the Taxpayer Advocate Nina Olson via the anonymous SAMS system. And write to your MP and other political representatives in the countries where you are a dual or resident taxpayer. Ask them how they can sit by and not condemn the US forcing Canadian taxpayers to expose their private banking information to the vagaries of computers in public libraries? Ask how they can justify not condemning the exposure of law abiding Canadian families and their households to identity theft through the escalating oppressive and unreasonable demands and actions of the US forced onto individuals with lega, post-taxl and CRA registered accounts on Canadian soil?
The US obviously gives not a damn what it does to those living outside the US – there are obviously NO limits and no constraints. Our security of the person and assets and personal information are of no concern to them. The IRS can’t even effectively help those resident inside the US who have been victims of identity theft. That has been repeatedly flagged by Nina Olson as one of the most important issues in her reports to Congress. They are not going to do anything effective to help us abroad.
Renounce/relinquish if you can. That is the only solution.
Armed with Don Nelson’s helpful warning about the PIN, I actually had far fewer issues than I expected, even with my crazy FreeBSD setup. Main problem I had was sorta Google Chrome’s fault rather than Treasury’s: Chrome (the second browser I tried) wants to render PDFs using its own internal code instead of the Adobe Reader plugin, and that doesn’t support those PDF forms. So I finally got it working on the third browser I tried. (This is mildly better than Korean government websites, where I consider myself supremely lucky if I can get it working in Internet Explorer under WINE and don’t have to reboot out to real Windows.)
Also it seems that Treasury is using Javascript password validation code with an MIT License, but I couldn’t find a copy of the MIT License anywhere on their website or in their source code 🙂 (I had to look at the code to figure out why it didn’t like the password I was trying to use)
https://bsaefiling1.fincen.treas.gov/js/UserIDFunctions.js
http://blog.stevenlevithan.com/archives/javascript-password-validator
One more concern is that the newer version of the Adobe plugin that actually supports those stupid fillable forms doesn’t play well with Tor Browser bundle (the first browser I tried). So there’s probably records at my ISP and elsewhere (e.g. Utah) of my computer making a DNS lookup of a US Treasury server’s IP address and then sending it some encrypted data. If I were in a country where it were a criminal act for me to disclose some of the information that I did (e.g. balances of accounts I don’t own), I’d be worried about leaving such an electronic evidence trail lying around of breaking local law in order to comply with foreign law.
One last minor complaint: the signature thing seems to use the local system date rather than the date in Mordor. Relevant if you wait until the last minute to file it.
The sad thing is that I know the feral government can do decent web design when they can be bothered to care; federalregister.gov is a pretty good example. I guess they are more concerned about serving the lawyers who are the only ones who read all those regulations and notices in the Federal Register on a regular basis (and, entirely coincidentally, donate lots of money to politicians) than about making filing FBARs easy for mink-swathed traitors living the high life abroad.
I sincerely believe that FBAR is designed to entrap criminals; its purpose is NOT to gather information. It’s the FAILURE to file that matters.
So I’m not surprised that the filing system is so poorly designed. I couldn’t get it to work on my Windows 7 machine (context: I have a made a living using computers since 1988). So I wrote to the support desk and their suggestion was to UNINSTALL Acrobat Reader. What a pain in the arse, but I’m not surprised.
BTW: Is anyone else offended by the obligation to file paperwork with the “Financial Crimes Enforcement Network”?
@Garbo re “BTW: Is anyone else offended by the obligation to file paperwork with the “Financial Crimes Enforcement Network”?”
Yes. The automatic presumption annually that we are criminals, and the onus and burden on us to prove annually that we are not. The presumption of innocence before guilt is not extended to those living outside the US, only to US persons on US soil apparently.
And, perhaps to them it is win-win. The only good FBAR is the unfiled FBAR because of the penalties they can levy – or, if they may be prevented from levying full FBAR penalites – they can use it as a club to terrify those living outside the US. They used the FBAR to scare minnows into the OVD programs and harvest penalty revenues even in the absence of any US tax owed. And, though a US resident would only face a small penalty for failure to file returns, and failure to pay small amounts of tax, those of us abroad can owe even the tiniest amount (due to the insane conflicts with our own home country tax systems and the US rules) but face the potential for draconian and confiscatory penalties under the BSA FBAR, or for the 3520 and 3520A, and other mere reporting provisions.
This is an industry for the IRS and Treasury. Harvesting the non-US assets of those around the globe – living legally outside the US and paying taxes in full in their non-US home country, where they are often also citizens by birth or naturalization. If they can’t confiscate our already once taxed assets one way, the US will try another way.
It’s the FBAR ‘n FATCA Fundraiser.
@PierreD, re “Is it just me, or do others out there feel a significantly reduced force of gravity on their middle finger vis a vis the USA?”
It has now become an automatic reflex.
We don’t or shouldn’t put our address out on the internet so why should we be forced to put sensitive financial data out there? Gads, what a sad, desperate, psychotic country the USA has become! What’s it going to take for all of us to say ENOUGH and HELL NO we won’t go down yet another obstacle laden tax form path? Pity the poor person who isn’t computer literate and pity the fool who thinks this is a safe way to hand in the keys to his bank account. It was unreasonable to fubar before by mail and it is intolerable to fubar now over the internet.
Someone mentioned there’s a phone number to call to beg off or probably more accurately to obtain a form to submit to beg off. Does anyone have that? The fine for not filing electronically is $500 right? Canada won’t collect FBAR fines right? This e-file BS is still a year away for my husband (filed 2012 by mail) but right now I’m thinking he will file his TD eff’n 90 for 2013 by registered snail mail and refuse to pay the fine. With luck he’ll be a Canadian citizen by then (it’s been over one year since he applied). Hopefully he can figure out a way to get what remains of his inheritance from his mother into Canada by that time so the IRS won’t steal the fine from his US account. We are being painted into a corner and not liking it at all.
To all Brockers living in Canada — HAPPY CANADA (formerly known as DOMINION) DAY! Special good wishes to those who are new Canadian citizens and those who are new ex-American citizens with a CLN in their hand. We’re off on a picnic and to hunt down some free Canada Day cake. 🙂
@Em, Happy Canada Day back to you! I do think the old “Dominion Day” sounded better, and “Happy Canaday” would be less of a stutter, but those are quibbles. I posted this on Maple Sandbox earlier today:
From Maclean’s magazine for Canada Day:
http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/06/28/99-reasons-why-its-better-to-be-canadian/
We could add that our residence-based income tax system is fairer and less complicated than the U.S. citizenship-based income tax system.
Happy Canada Day!
I submitted my complaint to SAMS last week.
And there is another problem with the mandatory efiled FBAR’s. You need a SSN (or maybe a TIN would work, but US citizen’s can’t get TIN’s) On the paper filed forms, there is the option for an alternate foreign ID. My daughter, who is only in the system because she got a US passport after being hassled at the border, has no SSN. So it’s either go to the consulate to get a SSN or go to the consulate to renounce. Renounce wins hands down.
@ AnonAnon
You’re right. Canada Day does sound stuttery. I never thought of that before. Now I’m certain to be putting an extra “da” or two into it — like the centipede tripping when it discovers how many legs it has. 🙂
Well, thanks for all the information and insights about what to expect for next year. I did my last one this year by mail with return receipt (Never received by the way, but on-line it was recorded as arriving)
This year, after I had compiled and figured my highest gross aggregate per account, with my usual procrastination, the FBAR form completion was not that hard. Basically could use the same PDF I used last year by just changing the file name, dates and some quick modifications from TDs that had terminated or new ones that had rolled. That seemed relatively painless, and since everything my wife and I do is joint, only one form required.
Now, if I understand correctly, next year I have to enter two forms electronically, one for her and one for me?… and need to be sure I am using the right browser with right Adobe plug in and will have to tediously input by finger what I had just ‘saved as” recopy from before.
Guess I will have to wait to see if like Eric, I think it is not that bad or not, but thanks for the alerts as what to expect. At least I am computer literate enough to figure out what fails, only use Windows 7 and have not fallen for Macs trap, and won’t be searching out a public library.
So glad I close my account, so I won’t have to deal with that stuff anymore. This year was my last one ever to file one, until the time comes for me to inherit – hopefully not for a long time.
And when this happens, I’ll probably hire Phil Hodgen to do everything right.
Happy for those who don’t have to file any more, but what about those FBAR-non-compliants who have yet to file? What does this bode for them? We’re screwed either way.
If the IRS wants information from me, I will use their form. I will mail it to the proper address. I will even complete it in pen, despite wishing to complete it in red crayon. I will NOT file it electronically, so they can save money. Screw them, like they continually try to screw me. If they don’t like mailed, paper FuBARs, tough bananas, they will have the info they require. Fine me, go ahead. The fine will go directly to the shredder, as will all other IRS correspondence.
Oh man, as I ponder whether or not I will ever even attempt to become compliant, the IRS continues to make it more and more difficult.
Meanwhile, it is Canada Day, and I must try to put on a brave smile while I attend the Ottawa fireworks celebrations with my family. Right now, I am NOT proud to be a Canadian, as I know that Canada does not consider me a TRUE Canadian because I spent the first 18 months of my life in the USA. I am one of ‘their’ (USA’s) people.
I don’t fit in. I am not one of ‘them’ (Americans), and I am not one of ‘them’ (the ‘real’ Canadians) despite the fact that all my ancestry can be traced back to the original so-called Canadians.
Will this ever end? I can’t even stop dreaming about this mess. Last night I dreamed that somehow I stupidly told the nice lady at the bank that I was born in USA, and all hell broke loose.