South Korean passports don’t have a birthplace. IIRC the government wanted to avoid awkwardness for citizens born in cities that ended up in North Korea.
Do passports really need anything more than a QR code on them?
It seems to me that one easy fix for other countries is to simply stop putting on places of birth and perhaps using the names of the cities where the person applied for the passport instead in its place. That way, there is a “place” but it more correctly notes the place where or near where the person’s life is lived.
Place of birth is an arbitrary thing that no one has control over. You don’t choose to be a citizen of this or that place initially. Choice comes later in life when you settle somewhere although it needs to be noted that for many, many people, there is never the opportunity to choose allegiance to a nation.
I would like it very much if Canada simply went to a “no birth place” policy. Not just for USC’s who are duals and live in Canada but for other Canadians who are immigrants too. My dentist emigrated to Canada as a toddler from Pakistan and gets hassled at the US border b/c of her birthplace and, in her opinion, because she is Muslim. It’s not just its own expats who are being targeted by Border Patrol but dual citizens from other countries when one of their citizenships provokes US paranoia or power-tripping.
But we’ve discussed this before – why dominate citizenship matters.
My dentist, two of the DR’s in the family practice my family goes to, the woman I coach soccer with, classmates of my child … where I live, dual citizenship is not that uncommon, but the majority of these folks see themselves as Canadian. It’s not a hard concept to understand but the USG deliberately chooses to for reasons that are more and more clearly power related (tax penalty money is just a bonus).
This, in my opinion, is about “ownership”. Who owns us. The country where we choose to be citizens or the country where we (or our parents) were born. If we could just frame the debate to point this out and highlight the fact that it reeks of slavery, maybe we could interest more people or at least point out the hypocrisy and disingenuous nature of the “tax cheat” argument.
This has been discussed in the past but will mention it again. The Swiss passport contains the “place of origin” of the passport holder and not the place of birth. Swiss citizens are citizens of a community, a canton and the country. The “place of origin” is the community in which the person is a citizen which would also maintain the “family book” (Zivilregister) for this person and family.
Wiki:
“Every Swiss national is a citizen of his municipality of origin, his canton of origin and the Confederation, in that order: a Swiss citizen is defined as someone who has the bourgeoisie of a Swiss municipality (article 37 of the Swiss Federal Constitution). He is entered in the family register of his place of origin. One’s place of origin depends on how one has acquired Swiss nationality. Nationals who are naturalised take the nationality of the municipality in which they were naturalised; citizens who became Swiss by virtue of their parents or of their marriage to a Swiss national, take the municipality of their father or spouse. It is not to be confused with the place of birth, which may be different.”
I know of people (non-US) whose birthplace (without the country) is shown on their EU passport. They did not request this but it just happened. In one case the city name only is listed. That city name exists in more than one country. In another the district name (bigger than a city but smaller than a province) is listed. These people have not encountered problems. Much I think depends on the discretion of whoever is checking the passport, whether the traveler is “suspicious” etc.
I asked about this here in Canada. The answer was ‘No’. Birthplace must be on the passport. I was also told that not having your birthplace may prohibit you from entering other Countries that put it on their passports. I had originally requested that my US birth place be removed and replaced with where I was naturalized. In my mind not having my US birthplace on my Canadian passport would reduce the number of hassles I have at the US boarder.
@Innocente, nevertheless, I still want to file for a change of birth place. 🙂
I’m of the view that once I’m able to get my hands on my own Canadian passport, that I also don’t want it to show my birthplace in the US. I’d rather have it show the place where I naturalized in Canada instead.
Shouldn’t it be my choice to shed any and all US indicia on my person if I intend to relinquish US citizenship anyway?
“Birth Place” = “Original Owner”
Here’s some info from the Passport Canada website re passport without place of birth on it.
This is from the instructions for the passport application form: http://www.ppt.gc.ca/form/pdfs/pptc153.pdf
“PLACE OF BIRTH
Your place of birth must be provided on the application form. If you do not wish the place of birth to appear in the passport, submit form PPTC 077, Request for a Canadian Passport Without a Place of Birth, available online at passportcanada.gc.ca”
And PPTC 077: http://www.pptc.gc.ca/form/pdfs/pptc077-eng.pdf
REQUEST FOR A CANADIAN PASSPORT WITHOUT PLACE OF BIRTH
“I, _________________ , am applying for a new passport and I do not wish my place of birth to be shown in the passport. I have been advised by Passport Canada that I may encounter difficulties with the officials ofother countries such as additional questioning, the requirement to obtain a visa that would not be required if the passport showed my place of birth, or denial of entry, if the passport does not show my place of birth. I understand that I will have to apply for a new passport at my expense if I wish my place of birth inscribed in my passport . . .“
@Yogagirl, that idea doesn’t always work. The UK have just moved all their passport application operations back to the UK so whichever country you apply from the paperwork now has to go to the UK. That’s fine if you live in the UK, but not much indication of where you’re based in the rest of the world. Before that for my most recent UK passport I had to send the application to Paris though the new passport was issued from the UK, so again no indication that I actually live in Switzerland.
@aw, my most recent UK passport just shows the US state I was born in, doesn’t mention the city at all or the US bit.
My German passport and ID just show the name of the town I was born in, i.e. not the state or country.
Thanks for digging that up. At some point the Austrians added the birthplace back. Probably some EU directive, I guess.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_passport
South Korean passports don’t have a birthplace. IIRC the government wanted to avoid awkwardness for citizens born in cities that ended up in North Korea.
Do passports really need anything more than a QR code on them?
It seems to me that one easy fix for other countries is to simply stop putting on places of birth and perhaps using the names of the cities where the person applied for the passport instead in its place. That way, there is a “place” but it more correctly notes the place where or near where the person’s life is lived.
Place of birth is an arbitrary thing that no one has control over. You don’t choose to be a citizen of this or that place initially. Choice comes later in life when you settle somewhere although it needs to be noted that for many, many people, there is never the opportunity to choose allegiance to a nation.
I would like it very much if Canada simply went to a “no birth place” policy. Not just for USC’s who are duals and live in Canada but for other Canadians who are immigrants too. My dentist emigrated to Canada as a toddler from Pakistan and gets hassled at the US border b/c of her birthplace and, in her opinion, because she is Muslim. It’s not just its own expats who are being targeted by Border Patrol but dual citizens from other countries when one of their citizenships provokes US paranoia or power-tripping.
But we’ve discussed this before – why dominate citizenship matters.
My dentist, two of the DR’s in the family practice my family goes to, the woman I coach soccer with, classmates of my child … where I live, dual citizenship is not that uncommon, but the majority of these folks see themselves as Canadian. It’s not a hard concept to understand but the USG deliberately chooses to for reasons that are more and more clearly power related (tax penalty money is just a bonus).
This, in my opinion, is about “ownership”. Who owns us. The country where we choose to be citizens or the country where we (or our parents) were born. If we could just frame the debate to point this out and highlight the fact that it reeks of slavery, maybe we could interest more people or at least point out the hypocrisy and disingenuous nature of the “tax cheat” argument.
This has been discussed in the past but will mention it again. The Swiss passport contains the “place of origin” of the passport holder and not the place of birth. Swiss citizens are citizens of a community, a canton and the country. The “place of origin” is the community in which the person is a citizen which would also maintain the “family book” (Zivilregister) for this person and family.
Wiki:
“Every Swiss national is a citizen of his municipality of origin, his canton of origin and the Confederation, in that order: a Swiss citizen is defined as someone who has the bourgeoisie of a Swiss municipality (article 37 of the Swiss Federal Constitution). He is entered in the family register of his place of origin. One’s place of origin depends on how one has acquired Swiss nationality. Nationals who are naturalised take the nationality of the municipality in which they were naturalised; citizens who became Swiss by virtue of their parents or of their marriage to a Swiss national, take the municipality of their father or spouse. It is not to be confused with the place of birth, which may be different.”
The photo of the Swiss passport shows “place of origin” for this example Swiss citizen as Le Lieu, VD (Vaud):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_passport
I know of people (non-US) whose birthplace (without the country) is shown on their EU passport. They did not request this but it just happened. In one case the city name only is listed. That city name exists in more than one country. In another the district name (bigger than a city but smaller than a province) is listed. These people have not encountered problems. Much I think depends on the discretion of whoever is checking the passport, whether the traveler is “suspicious” etc.
I asked about this here in Canada. The answer was ‘No’. Birthplace must be on the passport. I was also told that not having your birthplace may prohibit you from entering other Countries that put it on their passports. I had originally requested that my US birth place be removed and replaced with where I was naturalized. In my mind not having my US birthplace on my Canadian passport would reduce the number of hassles I have at the US boarder.
@Innocente, nevertheless, I still want to file for a change of birth place. 🙂
I’m of the view that once I’m able to get my hands on my own Canadian passport, that I also don’t want it to show my birthplace in the US. I’d rather have it show the place where I naturalized in Canada instead.
Shouldn’t it be my choice to shed any and all US indicia on my person if I intend to relinquish US citizenship anyway?
“Birth Place” = “Original Owner”
Here’s some info from the Passport Canada website re passport without place of birth on it.
This is from the instructions for the passport application form:
http://www.ppt.gc.ca/form/pdfs/pptc153.pdf
“PLACE OF BIRTH
Your place of birth must be provided on the application form. If you do not wish the place of birth to appear in the passport, submit form PPTC 077, Request for a Canadian Passport Without a Place of Birth, available online at passportcanada.gc.ca”
And PPTC 077:
http://www.pptc.gc.ca/form/pdfs/pptc077-eng.pdf
REQUEST FOR A CANADIAN PASSPORT WITHOUT PLACE OF BIRTH
“I, _________________ , am applying for a new passport and I do not wish my place of birth to be shown in the passport. I have been advised by Passport Canada that I may encounter difficulties with the officials ofother countries such as additional questioning, the requirement to obtain a visa that would not be required if the passport showed my place of birth, or denial of entry, if the passport does not show my place of birth. I understand that I will have to apply for a new passport at my expense if I wish my place of birth inscribed in my passport . . .“
@Yogagirl, that idea doesn’t always work. The UK have just moved all their passport application operations back to the UK so whichever country you apply from the paperwork now has to go to the UK. That’s fine if you live in the UK, but not much indication of where you’re based in the rest of the world. Before that for my most recent UK passport I had to send the application to Paris though the new passport was issued from the UK, so again no indication that I actually live in Switzerland.
@aw, my most recent UK passport just shows the US state I was born in, doesn’t mention the city at all or the US bit.
My German passport and ID just show the name of the town I was born in, i.e. not the state or country.