Update 3:
Those in or near London, England might be interested that a similar event to take place there on Sunday, July 28, 2013, is in the works. I will post the details as the become available.
UDPATE 2:
Saturday, June 15
Don Mills United Church – 126 O’Connor Dr., Toronto, Ontario M4K 2K7
Click here for directions (at the corner of Pape and O’Connor, see google maps). There is some street parking.
Doors will open at 9:45 a.m.
UPDATE 1:
- There is to be no taping/recording/videoing of ANY part of the day.
- The day will be extended to encourage more people to attend.
- Attendance is free.
The morning session will focus primarily on the emotional issues and the afternoon session on practical issues.
Session I: The Financial and Emotional Costs of U.S. Citizenship Abroad
- When: Saturday June 15, 2013 – 10:00 a.m. – 12:00 noon
- Where: Downtown Toronto – Near U of T – Final location posted on June 13
- Who: a Senior Licensed Psychologist
Description: Since 2011, the Obama administration has subjected millions of people Living outside the United States to a vicious attack. This includes Reaching into Canada. The IRS has literally threatened millions of innocent persons living outside the United States with fines exceeding their personal wealth–up to 380% of their financial assets. For many, this experience has taken a toll on their mental and physical health, and that has been even greater than the financial damage. A psychologist will address the emotional issues associated with the threats and demands that IRS is making. He will describe his own emotional experience and encourage others to share their own emotional reactions to these circumstances. Strategies will be discussed on how to cope with the stress caused by the IRS and the difficulties of living as a U.S. person abroad.
Session II: US Citizenship Abroad and Compliance Issues – Where we have come from. Where we are. Where we may be going
- When: 1:00 p.m. – 3:00 p.m.
- Who: An experienced Toronto lawyer
- What: Focus on more practical issues
Description: Beginning in the summer of 2011 the IRS aided by the media and cross-border professionals began a relentless attack on U.S. citizens in Canada. The spectre of FATCA has worsened the situation. The purpose of this session will be to review:
- Summer of 2011 – where we have come from
- 2011 to now – where we are now
- 2014 and onwards – where we may be going
What might this mean for U.S. citizenship in Canada? What are some possible responses? How can/should you respond to a difficult situation?
Please note that although this event will take place on June 15, it is NOT a session on how to file a U.S. tax return. The discussion will however include relevant U.S. tax issues and reporting/information returns.
You may feel you need help because:
- You are or have been threatened by the imposition of life-altering fines for failing to file information returns you had no reason to know existed;
- You feel victimized by the Canadian and other non-U.S. media, who have constantly referred to you as a “tax cheat” and advised you to “come clean”;
- You feel “taken advantage of” by the so-called “cross-border professionals”.
You just want to be compliant with the law, but you receive conflicting advice, and nobody seems to be able to tell you how to do it, yet they are asking for “huge” fees; - You feel completely misunderstood by the non-U.S. citizens in your life. They can’t understand the feelings of fear, betrayal and injustice that you feel. In some cases, this experience has put your marriage at risk;
- Your health has been dramatically affected by all of this. You can’t sleep. You worry. You have gained or lost weight. You are no longer the happy person you were. You feel that your life has been stolen from you.
First published May 27, 2013
northernstar,
Please include these in your correspondence: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/06/15/traumatized-by-the-irs-and-us-reaching-into-canada/comment-page-2/#comment-371573
@AtticusinCanada,
Do you have any evidence from talking with Joe from Democrats Abroad that they have moved from this “entitled US philosphy,” commented on by badger and others earlier this year? Many here would like an update on what they are doing and, especially, what they are thinking. Unless it’s 180 degrees from that below, I’m not interested.
I for one, do not consider my IRS compliance and the substantial cost associated a privilege of my living abroad. That thinking really turned me off Democrats Abroad. That MAY apply to US Persons who plan to one day return to the US. I do not, nor does anyone in my family. The only privilege of living abroad I want for my family and many others who make other countries our real and permanent homes is Residence-Based Taxation and out of the entitled US mentality.
Wow Calgary! That’s not at all the sense I got when I spoke to them. It sounded like they were saying they fully understood that there was no other choice but, to renounce for some people, that they thought it was wrong and that they were fighting against FATCA. They told me they didn’t blame my spouse one bit for not wanting to go along. They have been still in contact with the politicians and speaking out against this but, did say the pols weren’t too caring about what was happening to us. Made some not exactly nice comment about Levin..and were extremely understanding. I do not want anything from them, nor do I expect they can do anything for me. I just wondered if they were fighting against this or were going silent or going along. They seemed to be fighting it and even seemed pretty angry about the consequences of it here in Canada. I was told almost the same advise given by the lawyer at the meeting in Toronto by the person I spoke with to a “T” which I found interesting. As you say though they can do whatever they will as it doesn’t effect my decision and given the statement you posted above, it sounds like they’ve been “asked” to post a party line. Nothing will change but, they don’t seem happy about any of this at all. Perhaps for those other than us in the future will be saved from some of this but, nope I’m not holding my breath.
I didn’t think they were going to be able to change anything but, wanted a sense of whether or not they were really fighting this. It is neither here nor there to me as I can’t see them being able to change anything. However, I hoped they were carrying the message of the real consequences. Seems they are despite how powerless they may be. They were really an after thought for me to contact them as I just wanted to put out a feeler of where they stood. I sure don’t expect to get any real action as they really are not being listened to by those carrying out these actions in D.C.
Thanks for contacting Joe of Democrats Abroad, AtticusinCanada. I haven’t seen any evidence they are putting up enough, or any, fight for fear of rocking the boat; they seem, to me, truly political. I would love for them to show real evidence that they are very strongly FIGHTING FATCA and supporting a change to Residence-Based Taxation, which I think is the only way we will be protected. I don’t want their sympathy or empathy for my family’s plight — I want their action for they should be a strong voice for US Persons Abroad.
My personal feelings parallel those of USCitizenAbroad, https://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/my-wound-is-geography/:
I have been advised that Conservative MP Brian Jean is someone possibly sympathetic to our cause on the Parliamentary Finance Committee. Keep him in mind as this thing works itself out.
Thanks for another Canadian government representative contact, Tim!
That comment from USCitizenabroad is wonderful despite the sad facts it contains! Spot on! Thanks for posting that Calgary! Wish it was a press release.
It is our right to live where we are citizens or permanent residents – outside the US. It was my family’s right to leave the US and choose to live elsewhere. It is NOT a privilege that the US allows us.
It is our Universal Human Right to choose our citizenship and to divest ourselves and our children of the shackles of unwanted US citizenship – which the US by its actions and laws seeks to delay and thus effectively deny us.
“Article 15
2. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.” http://www.worldservice.org/udhr.html#15
I am suspicious of anyone who refers to our life abroad as a conditional ‘privilege’ that the US allows us for a substantial fee and obedience;
““…….. we may have to conclude that IRS compliance will likely involve a financial cost associated with the privilege of living abroad……“” http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/01/22/the-democrats-abroad-paradox-by-deckard1138/
@All..I just watched all the videos on YOu Tube of the FATCA forum on December 23, 2012…WOW!
And the ending was so appropriate….One Tin Soldier….
I learned so much and intend to spread the word. This affects all Canadians..
You’re very correct, northernstar. The costs of FATCA to our financial institutions will affect every Canadian just in increase of banking fees to pay for its implementation, to say nothing of loss of the country’s sovereignty and Canadian’s guaranteed rights to privacy in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
You’ll find, though, that it goes over the head of most Canadians and the Canadian media seems gagged. Don’t let that discourage you though — every once in awhile someone gets it. Do write often to your Canadian government representatives and to Kevin Shoom who is collecting comments from Canadians regarding FATCA and IGA negotiations with the US.
Good luck and thanks for your efforts.
I did write Shoom, Flagherty and Harper and my MP . You are right how this goes over people’s heads. Tonight I did bring FATCA to the attention of one of my younger son’s friends who said he never heard of it. I am sure he will tell his friends and perhaps the seed of information on FATCA will grow. BTW Shoom is out of office until July 2.
For want of a better place to put this:
Canada no longer allows masked protesters. How a few bad apples have ruined peaceful protest for those of us who fear the reprisals of a foreign government. Would painting one’s face with a Canadian flag be considered masking oneself?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/06/19/pol-mask-bill-royal-assent.html
@Bubblebustin, the National Post this morning went further and questions whether we should be able to mask our identities, for example, on the IBS internet site, if we might have “evil” intent:
“What if a version of this Bill were applied on the internet? What if it were illegal to wear a digital mask — a handle, screen name, or other alias — if one were doing so for the purpose of committing a crime? Would that sort of law reduce the level of criminal or unethical behaviour on the web?” “The answer, I believe, would be yes.”
“We wrongly glorify those vigilantes who lurk behind fake screen names, outing alleged wrongdoers without due process.”
“In the “real” world, we demand proof of identity for financial transactions. Even the letters page of a newspaper asks for contact information before publishing an opinion. Yet in the “virtual” world, we accept that people say and do things without the courage to reveal who they really are.”
“And every time we use a screen name, even to post a blog comment, we are justifying and encouraging the use of anonymity by those who would abuse it.
This brings us back to Bill 309. Its aim is to protect commerce and the public peace, by targeting those who wish to be faceless in real life. But the greater threat posed by the trend toward anonymity is online. And that’s where the government should be fighting it.”
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/06/20/tasha-kheiriddin-our-digital-masks/
It seems that ‘privacy’ has become synonymous with ‘subversion’, when the only reason for outlawing it is so we can be prosecuted for our actions. What an Orwellian World!
That National Post quote above could not be more dangerous or wrong. Very frightening. It is NOT safe to put your true identity all over the place online. No one should do that. Taking away any shred of anonymity puts people at risk for exploitation, theft, and harm. It is MUCH wiser to use a username for the modicum of privacy that affords you. I’ve been online for a long time. I used to run a very large website. Some of the things I have seen would curl your hair. The net can be a predators playground if you are not careful. I’ve seen people have money stolen, abusers trying to track their spouses, and worse. We only have a tiny shred of privacy left as it is. Now they are telling people to out themselves online for anyone, all over the world to see who you are? Not safe for teens, not safe for women, and not safe for anyone to do.
@AtticusinCanada….I agree with you about the National Post quote….Before retiring I did investigate ID fraud and it is not a good idea to put our your name and info all over. and those curl your hair stories are quite familiar to me as well. Also I would be cautious when reading the National Post. I have found them to report misinformation sometimes.
Banning people masking themselves at a “riot” is one thing as well but, will they just then say any protest is a “riot” We are headed down a very dangerous path with some of this stuff.
Yes, Northernstar if you have done ID fraud investigating then I’m sure you have some stories to tell. One thing that struck me was the volume of people online who were out to do harm or Catfish others for funds or theft or worse. Glad to know the National Post may be wrong about this information though!
“How would the new law change existing laws?
Some of the people who testified in front of the House justice committee, including Stribopoulos, suggested that Bill C-309 is unnecessary because there’s already a law against wearing a disguise to commit an offence.
Section 351 of the Criminal Code, under the heading “Disguise with intent,” states that “Every one who, with intent to commit an indictable offence, has his face masked or coloured or is otherwise disguised is guilty of an indictable offence.”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/05/14/f-mask-riot-law.html
@IRSCompliantForever or anybody who can help
Was there any advice at the seminar specifically for born-in-Canada duals? I have a US passport from one parent who used to live there but I have never lived outside Canada. I have never filed with the IRS and never plan to travel outside this country again.
@meincanada
I don’t recall any advice specifically for born-in-Canada duals at the meeting, but I will check my notes. When you say you have a US passport from one parent, do you mean you have your parent’s passport or you have one of your own? Do you know if your US parent registered your birth abroad with the US Consulate/or Embassy? Do you have a social security number? If you don’t have any of these, you are probably under the radar. And any Canadian passport will show you as born in a Canadian city so that’s probably safe.
Our son is a dual born in Canada. He was registered at birth, never had a SSN until recently; we got one in order to file tax returns and FBAR. The main reason we want our son to renounce is to keep all of our family situations clear of any US interference. At first he did not want to renounce as he is at the beginning of his career and understandably, wanted to keep his options open. After thinking about it though, he really doesn’t want to leave Canada and since he has a Certificate of Birth Abroad and a long-expired passport, wants to make sure everything is in order. After the Fact Statement 2011-13 from the IRS, I filed all of my returns and then his, and we’ve had no problem. At the meeting, we were reminded that originally, that Fact Statement was linked from a page which basically said USC’s in Canada and UK could just go ahead and file (basically, a quiet disclosure). To date, I have not heard of any Canadian who has filed and had any trouble except for those who entered the OVDI/OVDP programs. Am not suggesting that you do this but just passing on the info.
Dear IBSers …. any further information please about the London event? have booked my leave to be able to attend on Sunday 28 July. Please let me know if I can be of any assistance in any way in London in next 2.5 weeks. so looking forward to it.
@ nobledreamer or anyone
On June 22 you asked, “When you say you have a US passport from one parent, do you mean you have your parent’s passport or you have one of your own? Do you know if your US parent registered your birth abroad with the US Consulate/or Embassy? Do you have a social security number?”
I have my own US passport (expired) and SSN but my birth was not registered abroad. My Canadian passport has a Canadian city as place of birth.
I do not know what to do about all this FATCA stuff; I have only recently become aware of it. When the banks start asking citizenship questions, do I just state “Canadian” and leave it at that? I don’t owe any tax to the US, I have always filed with revenue Canada, I never plan on living in the US, I was born here, etc..Why should I be reporting anything to the IRS?
@meincanada,
If you have your own US passport (even if expired) and a US social security number, you are a US citizen. You would not have been able to get those without being a US citizen. If you have these and want to rid yourself of US citizenship and have only Canadian citizenship, you will have to renounce. Please start reading the many links on the right hand side of the home page. Ask us any questions you have — it is all very complicated and insane, but we’re all in this together. You do need to know in order to make decisions for yourself. I’m sorry I don’t have more time right now. (I am in Calgary and we are recovering from a flood, helping one another out, so I’m just popping in here from time to time.)
Don’t panic — but do read, read, read, learn, learn, learn, and ask questions. Every question you have others have had and there are those here who will try to help you understand.
Your questions are the same of all of us.
meincanada;
You can ignore it all. That’s the best advice you will get.
I never had USA passport. Came to Canada in 69. Became Canadian citizen on 1993. I am relinguishing next month I was told that is what I should do. Am I wrong?