Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

The Isaac Brock Society

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This post appeared on the RenounceUScitizenship blog.

Once upon a time in America – Protection of freedom from within

“Freedom and the dignity of the individual have been more available and more assured here than in any other land on earth. The price for this freedom at times has been high, but we have never been unwilling to pay that price. … I do not believe in a fate that will fall us no matter what we do. I do believe in a fate that will fall on us if we do nothing.”

Today in  America – Freedom is CrimeThink and the citizens live in fear of FormCrime

U.S. Government admits to spying directly on “foreigners” using PRISM

Interestingly when the Obama spy scandal broke, the President was quick to point out that the U.S. government was only spying on “foreigners”. To be specific: the government through the PRISM program was monitoring the email, chats and photos of “foreigners” that was running through U.S. internet servers. (Note that to be monitored the data must run through U.S. servers. Approximately one week ago I explained why this is driving the growth of “offshore email and internet servers”. I also suggested that it won’t be long before the U.S. forces its citizens to disclose all “offshore email accounts” to the U.S. government – “FEARBar“. But I digress.)

U.S. Government now wants to force “foreign governments” to spy on “foreign citizens” – That’s the FATCA of the matter!

FATCA exists for one purpose. The purpose is for the U.S. to obtain information on bank accounts in other countries. That’s it. No other reason. But, FATCA operates to force “foreign governments” to spy for the U. S. on residents of their countries. Yes, it’s the return of the Stasi – U.S. style.

Hmm, FATCA IGA anyone?

At the same time the U.S. admits that it has been spying on residents of other countries (“foreigners”), it is now asking forcing them to spy on their residents and turn this data over to the IRS. I wonder if the “PRISM Chronicles” will have any effect on the FATCA IGA process.

On this question, listen to the following interview with anti-FATCA advocate and member of European Parliament Sophie in ‘t Veld. She echoes the comments of Canadian Civil Liberties Association Abby Deshman that the U.S. has an insatiable appetite for data. At a minimum the EU is angered by the NSA PRISM program.

And now on to Sophie …

What do you think? Will this slow the IGA process?

 

82 thoughts on “#PRISM data mining could undermine #FATCA IGA”

  1. I think we are still a ways away from other countries realizing that they need to build an Internet and financial systems that exclude the US, but, I think that is where we are heading – eventually.

    Americans in the homeland are fine with what is going on. If anything is to change, it has to come from other countries waking up to the reality that for the USG, only that which is inside its borders matter. Everyone else is “other” and therefore a tool, means to end, and very expendable.

  3. European Union Angered by N.S.A. PRISM Program

    Public outrage continues over the revelation the N.S.A. has been surveilling internet data of companies like Google, Microsoft and Skype. But that outrage is not limited to U.S. borders.

    There are now concerns that the N.S.A. PRISM program could complicate talks for a free trade agreement between the E.U. and U.S. that were expected to begin next month. U.S. companies have been pushing for fewer restrictions on cross-border data flows, which are highly regulated in Europe.

    The news of the PRISM program has, for some European lawmakers, transformed troubling demands from American businesses for less restrictive data requirements into unacceptable data hoarding by the U.S. government. Sophie in’t Veld, a Dutch member of the European Parliament, explains why.

  4. BTW, I think we should be targeting the Delaware delegation regarding FATCA IGA reciprocity

    I am tweeting them all this morning as a start, with Stacks comments on reciprocity…

    Here is the first of many I will do…

    https://twitter.com/FATCA_Fallout/status/344820606409244672

    Here are all their websites… and I will put a comment on there too..

    http://www.carper.senate.gov/public/
    http://www.coons.senate.gov/
    http://johncarney.house.gov/

    In case you lost it, here is a link to the transcript of Robert Stacks comments..
    http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/?attachment_id=18812

    Also we need to merge NSA and IRS data mining in peoples mind NSA + IRS = NSAIRS

    Finally, work on show how misplaced trust is in our officials that are “protecting” us, just using their own public statements.

    ‏@FATCA_Fallout 30m
    Is it hot in here, or am I just lying? Director of NSA Clapper denials http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-june-10-2013/good-news–you-re-not-paranoid—nsa-oversight … @TheDailyShow @BeirutCalling @SophieintVeld

  7. Thanks again for posting this. I didn’t have time yesterday, for more than just sending off an email and a few tweets after I heard the interview on the radio.

    We really need to merge NSA data mining together with IRS FATCA in peoples minds… NSAIRS almost seems like a real word.

    I find myself going back to this article a lot these days…

    http://rt.com/news/utah-data-center-spy-789/

    This is significant… If they haven’t broken into all Banks and Financial institutions yet, that is certainly the mission!

    Breaking the unbreakable

    Now, the last hurdle in the NSA’s path seems to be the Advanced Encryption Standard cipher algorithm, which guards financial transactions, corporate mail, business deals, and diplomatic exchanges globally. It is so effective that the National Security Agency even recommended it for the US government.

    Here, the Utah data complex may come in handy for two reasons.

    First: what cannot be broken today can be stored for tomorrow.

    Second: a system to break the AES should consist of a super-fast computer coupled with a vast storage capabilities to save as many instances for analysis as possible.

    So, if they don’t get the financial data they want via FATCA, they will get it via the NSA, it is only a matter of time! And you don’t think they will share it?

    We already know that FATCA data can be shared the other direction, so I am pretty sure this will become a two way street, no matter what any lying official tells you..

    By taking certain steps, the IRS may share bank data it gets from foreign banks under FATCA with other US agencies –

    See more at: http://www.acfcs.org/by-taking-certain-steps-the-irs-may-share-bank-data-it-gets-from-foreign-banks-under-fatca-with-other-us-agencies/?goback=%2Egde_4118437_member_247324492#sthash.dKxGnsPu.dpuf

    Plato said it well. When they get FATCA data, they have EVERYTHING. It is the End of personal freedom!

  8. @Bubblebustin..

    NSAIRS pronounced “nay-sayers” (to freedom)?

    Exactly…

    If that Stephen Colbert was the Tuesday night program, it wasn’t up on the internet yet last night. I will go and check it out…

  9. Bubblebustin, the world is not powerless. There are 7 billion people on the planet who are not USC’s, don’t live there and never will. 330 million people should not have authority over 7 billion and eventually this will happen. The only question now is what event will trigger the backlash. Because something will.

    And I totally agree that FATCA is part of the data mining first and a revenue tool second. Information is power and power is everything.

  10. It’s clear to all parties involved that the US of A is taking an adversarial position against the rest of the world, no matter how it’s being spun. We can only hope for a situation to present itself where the US can dump FATCA in an act of heroism, or at least without losing too much face. I think that without either of these scenarios they will continue to charge full steam ahead. FATCA requires a repeal, so the usual cut-and-run measures won’t work here.

  11. Just on cue – Brian Dooley:

    The IRS Robot is farming EBay, LinkedIn, and Facebook, Yelp and all social media, your Internet searches and in some cases your emails. The IRS is using the new “big data” method (which is explain in this Associate Press article regarding big data, big brother, on this link).

    It has access to every social media posting going back to 2008. Deleting your posts does not make them go away.

    This supercomputer can read all 200 million e-Filed returns in just ten hours. The IRS has bragged that their computer can make DNA blueprint of each of our behavior. In this episode you will learn how and what to do.

    The Robot finds it victim and then sends the victim’s return to the audit manager. The term that is used by the IRS for this is “robo-audit”.

    https://twitter.com/USCitizenAbroad/status/344854674249248768

  12. This article has a good summary of Edward Snowden quotes, up to now, and if the CIA has its way they may be his last. I wonder if the technowizzards who keep things like PRISM going tickety-boo have ever considered the true horror of a Panoptica Society? If they haven’t got the courage to openly expose the system as Edward Snowden has done, I wonder if they will have enough integrity to at least toss some clever little monkey wrenches into the PRISM (rhymes ever so intentionally with PRISON)? I read last night that there has been a surge in people reading and re-reading “1984”. Dare I hope it’s those technowizzards? I hope John Oliver on The Daily Show this week keeps the NSA on his agenda but I also wonder how long it will be before something will be conjured up, all sparkly and sexy or big and bloody, to divert people’s minds from their PRISM prison and all this nasty NSA business.

    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/27-edward-snowden-quotes-about-u-s-government-spying-that-should-send-a-chill-up-your-spine

  13. @Bubblebustin
    @Yoga

    The US is attempting to divide the world and conquer.

    The rest of the world must unite and conquer.

    All that is required is to:

    Just say no.

    So, why has that not happened (at least yet)?

    Here are some possible reasons:

    – the rest of the world is simply used to being abused by Washington

    – the corporate interests are supporting the US (very possible for example the Canadian banks are probably very much in favor of a FATCA IGA).

    – the rest of the world is afraid of Washington

    – Obama was the fraudulent recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize …

    I don’t know the reasons.

    But, what I do know is this:

    The US through its drones, FATCA, etc. has declared war on the world. It’s time for the world to defend itself (and no I don’t mean with a military confrontation). It requires a “Ghandi like” approach of peaceful resistance. In the same way that Ghandi realized that a small number of British could not control a large number of Indians, as Yoga points out, a small number of people who have hijacked the US government cannot control the rest of the world.

    It’s amazingly simple:

    Just say no.

    It’s amazingly simple:

    Just say no.

    Did you miss it? It’s amazingly simple:

    Just say no.

  14. In followup to my suggestion to write the Delaware legislators to focus attention on reciprocity and try to tie the FATCA “policy laundering” to the secrecy of NSA, I sent them all a comment, which I have posted here…

    http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/06/01/the-bigger-perspective-on-eu-fatca-public-hearing-policy-laundering-reciprocity-and-the-consequences/comment-page-3/#comment-384060

    Now I need to go and start to work on Wyoming and Nevada legislator.. 🙂

    EM…
    Thanks for that newest article, and I assume you have seen the one at the Guardian,.. I think it was posted somewhere here on IBS.

    Edward Snowden: saving us from the United Stasi of America

    Snowden’s whistle blowing gives us a chance to roll back what is tantamount to an ‘executive coup’ against the US constitution

  16. @ Just Me
    Yes I saw that Guardian piece and BTW your “efforts” are more like major treatises. (It would take me a month to do that.) You can spin out your “efforts” and tweets and comments and who knows what else with one hand on the keyboard and the other holding a cup of coffee (just assuming) and do all this from sun-up to past sun-down (or so it seems). Excellent! We are very, very grateful for your “efforts”.

  17. @Em

    This is good for a chuckle. The similarity between PRISM and PRISON was also caught by Stephen Colbert lost night: PRISON: Probably Regretting Identifying Self On National TV. (at about 3:15, but lead up is worth a watch).

    http://www.thecomedynetwork.ca/shows/TheColbertReport?videoPackage=135351

    @USCitizenAbroad

    I agree, but without a repeal of FATCA, saying NO won’t stop the 30% withholding. Every nation should be telling the US where to put FATCA. How shall we construe Canada’s silence?

  18. The Snowdon points are chilling indeed.
    He better keep filing his 1040’s and FBAR’s from abroad or he’ll have more than the CIA after him. I wonder if he knows that another OMG moment awaits him…

  19. @Em
    and you are an effortless poet that brings us much enjoyment and amusement! We all do what we can. Thnx 🙂

  21. @ bubblebustin
    I watched The Daily Show last night but didn’t watch The Colbert Report. I am not a TV watcher anymore but after listening to the latest episode of The Bugle (a podcast that John Oliver does) I decided to turn it on for half an hour to get his take on the NSA. Since the big bad data bank is soon to open in Utah then I guess we can think of this whole descent into a total surveillance police state as The Rocky Mountain Horror Show.

  22. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/42d8613a-d378-11e2-95d4-00144feab7de.html#ixzz2W2BRl9R7

    If that link doesn’t allow you in, go to googlenews.com, and paste the headline into the search. You will be able to access the entire story there. This helps you understand better what Sophie was talking about in the interview.

    Washington pushed EU to dilute data protection
    By James Fontanella-Khan in Brussels
    ©AFP

    US National Security Agency headquarters at Fort Meade, Maryland
    The Obama administration successfully lobbied the European Commission to strip its data-privacy legislation of a measure that would have limited the ability of US intelligence agencies to spy on EU citizens, according to three senior EU officials.

    The measure – which was known within the EU as the “anti-Fisa clause”, after the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act that authorises the US government to eavesdrop on international phone calls and emails – would have nullified any US request for technology and telecoms companies to hand over data on EU citizens, according to documents obtained by the Financial Times.

  23. Oops, I left out this paragraph…

    However, the safeguard was abandoned by commission officials in January 2012, despite the assertions of Viviane Reding, the EU’s top justice official, that the exemption would have stopped the kind of surveillance recently disclosed as part of the National Security Agency’s Prism programme.

  25. @Em

    How are you enjoying John Oliver filling in for Jon Stewart now that he’s off making movies? I think he’s doing a stand-up job!
    I didn’t know about his podcast, thanks for the tip.

    @Mark Hubbard

    It’s all getting very surreal isn’t it?

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