A economist friend, who I email correspond with, has made some broader salient observations and points about the recent EU FATCA meeting, which Victoria has eloquently blogged about here. As he points out, FATCA has greater impacts than just those on Dual Citizens and accidental Americans living in Europe that we all should be concerned about irrespective of our status.
I thought I would ask his permission to share his thoughts to add and expand the discussion. Rather than just bury them in a comment stream, here or here, I thought I would make a separate post as they are extensive. He wishes to maintain anonymity for the purpose of this post.
Note to Reader: When you watch, and/or read the testimony of the US Treasury guy, Mr Robert Stack ( Deputy Assistant, Secretary for International Tax Affairs, International Tax Council of the United States Department of Treasury) you will notice that there has been no mention of the IRS. However, he represents the face of the IRS for FATCA administration and enforcement. The IRS Commissioner reports directly to Treasury Secretary Jack Lew who reports to Obama. The IRS is NOT an independent government agency. The International Revenue Service (IRS), as guided by the Administration and Treasury are the ones that implement the Treasury FATCA IGAs specifically and 544 pages of FATCA regulations generally.
So, when you hear Treasury in the context of this EU public hearing, think IRS, as they are the ‘heavies” given the task, with full enthusiasm for the mission, I might add. The Economist commentary below used IRS terminology only, but I have included both for clarity, as it relates to this EU FATCA Public hearing.
What follows are his comments with a little editorial license:
The Economist writes:
OK, everyone, I just had the chance this morning to watch the 1 hour and 22 minute video of the “public” hearing. Here is my bottom line: WHAT A JOKE!!
Each MEP had one chance to speak for 5 minutes while the interlocutors -Treasury/IRS, OECD, Euromap (? – Lewis) get a second round to refute Sophie or support some of the others, and leave their last words. But the biggest joke, to me anyway, is how there IS a public hearing on FATCA in the EU that NO American has ever been accorded by our own government!!
Listening to the Treasury/IRS guy Mr Stack talk about policy and Congress, etc., was absurd, but everyone in that room assumed he knew what the hell he was talking about and/or had the authority to make these promises and deals! They have no mandate at all on policy or most of these things!! This is an Treasury/IRS bamboozle of the entire EU and European Parliament – and they’re buying it!
Reciprocity as a replacement for Fiscal Imperialism: FATCA, as we all know, was not a piece of legislation that received open public hearings, nor even committee discussions and sanctions – none of the things that the EU is doing now, however rudimentary and badly done.
FATCA was quite literally slipped into an oblique piece of legislation having absolutely NO relevance whatsoever to the subject of taxation. It had absolutely no mandate or implication with respect to IGAs at all, let alone data exchange agreements. None of those items were mentioned ONCE in the FATCA legislation. This auto exchange mechanism is ALL fabricated by the Treasury/IRS because they quickly found out that FATCA is fiscal imperialism! And, not surprisingly, people don’t particularly like fiscal imperialism. So suddenly “reciprocity” was presented as the solutions, but where is reciprocity ever mentioned in FATCA legislation? Answer: IT IS NOT
Policy Laundering: Sophie is right! This IS “policy laundering”, and more disturbing, it is ‘policy-making’ by an Department of government that has no power to make it. It should not be doing this. It is the domain of State Department!
Treasury/IRS is promising things that they can’t deliver, have no power to deliver, and probably won’t deliver given the current political realities in DC!
Why do countries who have territorial systems of taxation need any reciprocity from the USA at all?? For what? Do they want to identify all Germans living on American shores having accounts in Kansas Credit Unions? Aren’t Tax evasion problems inside the boundaries of the EU enough of an issue to solve, without rushing abroad to stop it there too?
What’s the Reciprocity Point: What is the ultimate point of all of this reciprocity and data exchanges among OECD countries supposedly to combat tax evasion? How much money are people in the USA hiding in Germany or France, do you think, for tax evasion purposes? And why would they actually want to tell the USA about this money that is there at all? That money is being put to work earning a return, (and is taxed) on which the local governments are gaining multiple levels of taxation – sales taxes, property taxes, employee taxes, VAT, et.al. Why send it scurrying to other jurisdictions outside this EU/US exchange mechanisms they are salivating about?
As noted before, when FL, TX, NV, WY and DE get wind of what the reciprocity promise of Treasury means to the economies of their states, how many members of Congress are going to stand up and vote on it? We should send the exchange of Mr Stack of the Treasury/IRS to the DE delegation immediately, along with VP Biden, so they can hear for themselves just what the Treasury/IRS is proffering the EU in their names! Maybe Senator Reid would like to consider the impacts on his state. Wonder if he thought of that when he pulled the lever for an “aye” vote on FATCA?
Treaty? Indeed, lost in a lot of the shuffle was a minor note by the EC representative who mentioned the magic word to govern all of this: “Treaty” Normally that means full Senate exposure to something they’ve spent not a nano-second on! Of course, by Treasury declaring it is just a Competent Authority Agreement, no Senate ‘advise and consent’ is necessary, so they won’t get a half of nano-second if Treasury has their way. Of course, Treasury/IRS hopes that it will be a fait d’accompli from the EU side, so the Senate will have no choice since but accept it if they ever wake up to discover that has happened. Ironically, all of this will be in response to a stealth paragraph or two from the HIRE Act that they never saw because it was slipped in, won’t remember, and many didn’t vote on, but is, in fact, US LAW. FATCA is boomeranging back onto American shores and they never saw it coming.
The Cost Benefit is assumed: Here is the other unspoken argument in the entire hearing: The cost-benefit is assumed! They assume that if FATCA and its IGAs is matched with an internal exchange of data first within the EU and then with America, then tax evasion will be defeated and governments will solve their budget problems.What the hell gives any of these guys that idea?? And at what cost??
Do any of these Eurocrats and MEPs know that the W&M Committee scored FATCA at providing a whopping $800 million in additional revenue if implemented? If it is that little for America, what a pittance it will be for them. In the process of that, it is costing global financial institutions tens of billions of dollars!!?? And just how much money will the EU have to spend to actually create systems for the exchange of data to implement FATCA? And what will they receive at the end of it? This is such an absurdity! It is a nightmare of quite literally global proportions!
Listening to how the USA and EU, and ultimately OECD members will set up this standardized exchange of information among tax authorities all supposedly to combat tax evasion is almost amusing. Now that Switzerland caved due to other US DOJ pressures, no one in their right minds, who wants to evade taxes, will place their money in Switzerland or the EU now, just makes the entire exercise a monumental JOKE on everyone else.
Government Debt = Slavery: The Treasury/IRS Stack’s comment on “austerity” is such a low-blow (though effective) foundation of why anyone is taking this seriously at all. I’ve written before that government debt = slavery. Some of you might have thought that was crazy Economist with his conservative polemics, but here it is in real form: If governments do not overspend in terms of debt, their ability to service that debt with the income they already take in in taxation, this issue would be irrelevant!
Who pays? But the problem is they have, and they are now coming to the realization that they will at some point have to increase taxes to pay for it. Well, in a democracy the majority of people at any given time are loathe EVER to vote to increase taxes on themselves. So government polemics start screaming about how “the rich don’t pay their fair share” (even though they pay 80% of ALL income taxes), and “we have to close those loopholes” (that they wrote!), and “we have to go after tax cheats who use tax havens” (even though they have no clue how much it is or what it means in additional tax revenues) – all the while they continue to increase the debt by spending more than they take in!! And who pays for it ultimately?? We ALL do of course – that’w when the politicians will simply blame their predecessors for all the problems they make.
But what about tax havens and tax evasion? The first thing to bear in mind is the perspective on this problem. The second is understanding that the two are NOT the same things at all! The third thing is realizing that NONE of what was discussed at this public hearing will solve this problem AT ALL!
A global perspective: Let me give you some perspective on the issue first. The IMF tracks the global economy pretty well. The global GDP is $67 trillion. The Bank for International Settlements (BIS) also tracks the financial assets around the world.
Tax neutral grounds: The #1 off-shore tax haven is the Cayman Islands. It actually has roughly $1.3 trillion “parked” there. A big amount of money, to be sure, except…. Except that money belongs to people all over the world, not just in the USA. It is a “tax haven” not for nefarious reasons (though no doubt there is SOME black money there for sure) but actually for perfectly good, economic reasons. It is the legal home of most of the US-based international funds that invest around the world, but specifically not IN the USA! And the reason for that is because these funds are also sold to lots of people from around the world, too, ALL of them having different tax liabilities based on the local laws. The Cayman Islands, therefore, is tax neutral grounds – a tax “haven”.
Let me give you a practical example: If there are 10 individuals with $1 million to invest in an international fund, each from a separate country, the fund is $10 million. If its ROI is 10%, it earns $1 million. Each shareholder receives $100,000 and is required to deal with the tax authorities back in their home countries individually – the fund itself is NOT liable.An American – like Romney – is, therefore, required to report that $100,000 to the IRS for taxation – which he did, paid his taxes on it as determined by the laws written by Congress… and then accused of using an “offshore tax haven” as if he somehow cheated, which he did not! But, OOoooohhhh, see how naughty he was?!!Now bear in mind that that $1 million (Romney’s or others) can perfectly well have been from post-tax savings (as was the case in Romney), so the principle invested is NOT necessarily tax-free, black money and all; quite the contrary.
You should also know that despite the popular press of the Cayman Islands as a “tax haven” is somehow disrespectful of the IRS, quite the contrary is the case. They have a very strong relationship with the IRS because they want to be squeaky clean in order to keep attractive international fund business – that’s how they make their big money, not on the dirty money that also co-exists there!
Now let’s get back to the macro-numbers. So if Cayman Is. is the biggest offshore center, if you add up the BIS (Bank of International Settlement) numbers (I haven’t yet), I’m willing to bet that the total amount comes to perhaps $4 trillion at most. By itself that seems like a lot of money. But as a percentage of the global economy it is less than 5%. And, of course, while you’ll hear this number connected to “lost taxes”, not all of that would go to governments even if it were ALL black money.
On a global average, the “lost” taxes – assuming this is all black money – would be roughly 35% if it was OECD sourced (not an outrageous assumption given the size of the % of the global economy by the OECD members).OK, so we are now at $1.4 trillion. Now I’ll assume that 67% of that money is actually either net of tax paid, or not likely to produce taxes anyway. (The latter because most countries don’t tax income generated outside of their sovereign territory if it isn’t repatriated, so any smart owner would keep it there!) So we’re now down to a MAXIMUM of maybe $500 billion “lost” in taxes by OECD members.
The OECD’s total GDP is $43 trillion, or 63% of the world. Apply that percent against the $500 billion “lost” and now we’re down to $335 billion, and where where the US portion might be ~$125 billion of that.
Now the Treasury numbers. This would imply a loss of 5% of of the $2.6 trillion of revenue the IRS delivers to the Treasury, and only 3% of the $3.8 trillion of the Federal government’s budget. It is equal to 0.7% of our entire GDP.
It’s the Perspective that matters, not the number: Those are the real likely numbers in the best case scenario for a supposed “loss of tax revenue” to keep it in perspective – because they will come back in this argument later! It is the perspective that matters, NOT the number. Billions sound big only to we who don’t make a lot; for governments – esp. the USA with $3.8 trillion in its budget – it is quite literally peanuts, and certainly is minuscule compared to the loss of freedom and the potential compromise of individual data.
But here is what I heard coming out of this “public hearing”.
1. Harmonize: In order to institute FATCA, the EU would have to harmonize internally its data collections by local/national tax authorities. Clearly they have been discussing this for some time; FATCA is being seen and used by tax authorities to push this forward faster (before the people and their parliament know what it means).
2. US Demands Drive Action: To harmonize with the eventual demands of FATCA, that data would have to comport to US demands – because ONLY the US demands from FATCA are driving this! (I’ll have more to say about Giegold below on this).
3. Divide and Conquer? So EU data collections are being designed essentially only to satisfy US Treasury/IRS demands. Who will determine moving forward how those demands will change? National parliaments? The US Congress? The IRS? the European Parliament? The national tax authorities? The European tax authority? Is there ONE? If not, who will be THE authority to comply with FATCA! This isn’t being addressed at all, yet we’ve seen specifically because of what the Treasury/IRS has done with FATCA what can happen next if it isn’t discussed.
4. A Global TIN: In order to satisfy the demand for this data, you heard heard them talk about an EIN or TIN number for everyone, companies and individuals alike, USA, EU, OECD. So much for your individuality! I’ll assume they’ll what to brand it on your forearm to save time…. Oh, sorry – that’s SOOO yesterday – now they’ll just implant a chip under your skin instead!
5. Reciprocity for the US: The IRS implied that for the USA to honor “reciprocity” they would force – sorry, “support” – this same process onto US Financial Institutions (USFIs) the same as the US is demanding in its IGAs. Indeed, he even implied that they would turn over to the EU data already collected beyond the scope of FATCA – and, of course, NEVER AUTHORIZED UNDER FATCA ANYWHERE!!!
6. Carrot-Stick Measure: This EU-USA exchange would then be matched by the OECD acceptance and supposedly forced compliance on other members – that little “carrot-stick measures” wasn’t lost on me.
7. End Result: So the end result of all of this joyous and wonderful “co-operation” brought on by FATCA would result in how much actual lost tax revenue returned to national Treasuries??? Remember, THAT is ‘supposedly’ the purpose of this entire exercise! The answer is a veritable pittance. But we will have a global GATCA cemented in place to show for it.
BUT WHAT WILL BE LOST?? Any sense of individuality at all!! Remember, in America, the IRS is the only agency of our government where you are assumed GUILTY until you prove your innocence! This principle is extremely important to bear in mind when discussing anything having to do with providing the Treasury and the IRS with more power over anything!
Orwell on Steroids George Orwell, right now, is spinning around in his grave like a pinwheel in a stiff breeze, totally fraught with the very idea that his original monstrous idea of Big Brother could evolve to an EVEN BIGGER BROTHER!! After all, even in 1984 he still imagined mega-states competing with each other on the peripheries (though using supposed conflicts as excuses for those governments to maintain control over their populations specifically in this manner).
So this hearing and its implications is the most diabolical play for bureaucratic dominance I’ve ever seen and I can quickly imagine the total loss of individual freedom as a result. Why the latter? My friends, if they have figured out how to exchange tax data, and open all financial institutions to total transparency, they’ve figured out everything! This is the final link in the BIG DATA collection world. A bold statement? Yes, I know. But here is why I make it.
I sent around to some of you that “questionnaire” that those supposedly “low level bureaucrats” (yeah, right!) at the IRS in Cincinnati was requiring tax-exempt organizations to answer (even though “officially” “Legally” none actually had to answer. The implied threat of an IRS audit, however, was all that was needed).
Now imagine how the tax bureaucrats could structure everyone’s tax returns in the “need for more accurate data” – and then that data was exchanged around the world. And then it was connected up to say, I don’t know, passports, airline reservations, car reservations, credit card applications, mortgage appplications, utility hook ups, etc., where access to those basic services comes at the expense of some BIG DATA report on your compliance. The IRS is already well down this track with its collection of data on Citizens as told in this recent News and World Report article Who needs FATCA when you have google maps for the Tax man to track you down?
The Real Danger: Since we know law enforcement can already collect data internally in most OECD countries – though mostly governed by legal restrictions – what restrictions will be or could be placed on our fiscal gestapo?
Congress doesn’t designed the tax forms, the instruction booklets or the process; the IRS alone does that! And since we’ve seen what they’re willing to do to target tax-exempt organizations, to what extent will they go for tax-required organizations or individuals? The real danger here is – and always has been – permitting the bureaucrats to determine how these things are actually implemented. That, after all, is really how we got to this phase of FATCA at all!
How did we arrive here? We are here because FATCA was injected into an unrelated piece of legislation having nothing to do with tax legislation, data collection, the opening of US financial markets, the exchange of data of US resident citizens, and without any regard to any aspect of reciprocity, or any aspect of a legislative process that is meant to safeguard American rights!
It was then left to Treasury and the IRS alone to figure out how to implement! And, as a result, a Global GATCA is what is being created.
Now we finally have EU FATCA public hearing of the most despicable nature, where other bureaucrats who limit MEP members’ time but not their own, discussing processes and procedures to put EU citizens’ rights at risk, all to satisfy an unbelievable and innocuous US clause in an equally innocuous piece of legislation that 99.9% of Americans know nothing about.
Power Transfer: Not only is Sophie correct that this is “policy laundering” and an imposition of US procedures affecting EU citizens rights – BUT IT ISN’T EVEN SOLVING THE PROBLEM FOR WHICH IT IS SUPPOSEDLY BEING ENACTED, TAX EVASION!! IT IS ONLY TRANSFERRING POWER TO BUREAUCRATS BEYOND THEIR AUTHORITY TO DISRUPT THE LIVES AND INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS OF EVERYONE!!
Here’s a quick question: What do you consider more dangerous for the issue of individual rights moving forward: “Policy laundering” or “money laundering”?
No procedures for oversight: Moreover, no one spoke of procedures or oversight committees, etc., in terms of limiting or sanctioning the authorities for the misuse or inaccuracy of this information. Consider the story of Jon’s Worth’s visit to the European Parliament and Mr. Vincent Chiarappa little Napoleon attitude. Who or what will stop this in the future if this auto data exchange takes place?
Consider the Patriot Act’s “No Fly List” for a nano-second, and how people have been misidentified and prohibited to fly as a result of that? How would anyone challenge their data?
Hell, let’s accept that the assertion that the IRS scandal out of Cincinnati really was by low-level bureaucrats!! The tone that leads to that practice comes from somewhere, (Leadership that is unaccountable and takes no responsibility?) and acting alone without oversight and control is enough on its own that should scare the hell out of everyone!
The difficulty of challenging the bureaucracy is not a mythical hypothetical. Recently it was reported on how tax cheats inside America! – stole the identities of 10 members of the Tampa Police Dept., including the Chief of Police (!), and then applied for fictitious refunds – which the IRS paid. But, of course, when they were found upon review by the IRS to have paid too much, the IRS put liens on the policemen’s properties and accused them of fraud! But if that wasn’t an insult enough for our law enforcement agents, the IRS for “legal reasons” refused to even give the police the addresses to where the fraudulent checks were sent so they could go investigate and actually catch the thieves! That was because it would be against their internal policies on disclosure because of IRS secrecy laws – so they were protecting the crooks against the police!! Now put that one on a FATCA/GATCA scale.
How do you challenge mis-sent, inaccurate data or foreign stolen FATCA id? The homeland explosion in Tax ID Theft and fraud as has been reported since 2011 but now the IRS wants to export the problem around the globe. They have let this problem fester in the homeland, at a huge cost to the US Treasury, and yet they expend large portions of their limited resources on a global witch hunt trying to create a global GATCA of automatic exchanges with no assurances of data security, rather than solve the far greater problems on the homeland shores.
Where are the priorities?
There are numerous other media reports about the nature and scope of ID tax return fraud in America, including many damming TIGTA reports. Does Congress ever read these before they send the IRS out on global missions? They can’t even stop Tax fraud by prisoner inmates for gods sake. And then they hand out Child tax credits to illegal workers in America representing 4 times the amount of fraud in one year that they plan to collect from FATCA over 10 years!
Here is a link to another CBS Morning Report that details how common criminals engage in simple practices. No wonder ex Commissioner Shulman doesn’t want to take responsibility for failures on his watch! He just regrets them. Well, I regret his enthusiasm for FATCA!
Now, we have the most recent solution… Deputize the police to be Tax Revenue agents and share Taxpayer information with them! So now we have the IRS deputized police with guns running around in American trying to stop tax fraud, and while it sounds like a good idea for the recent problems in Tampa, I can just imagine the repercussions of this across the nation. That policeman in your city may soon have access to your tax data, just for the purpose of stopping tax fraud of course, but the overreach never ends there!
BTW, the problem is all solved now. We are now doing quicker investigations.
All of this is just illustrative of what is going to happen with in Global GATCA ID Theft problem explodes around the world once FATCA is up and running. Will we be deputizing the U.S. Special Forces to be Tax Revenue fraud protection and enforcement Agents around the world, and sharing taxpayer information with them about Americans living abroad to help in the round up?
My fellow overseas Americans, there is NO WAY the IRS can satisfy ANY EU authority on the issue of identity security – and indeed, of their own systems from fraud. The report you will hear said the IRS has stopped 87% of tax filing fraud. Really?? How would they know? Moreover, that still leave 13%! Of course, if you are within that 13% you become just a statistical error as far as they are concerned – which you would be… but you’d still have to figure out how to dig yourself out of it. Remember, you are Guilty until proven innocent.
Note the revenue lost comparisons: In ALL of the estimates, that even by the IRS itself points to, homeland ID and tax fraud amounts to multiples of the estimated “loss of revenue” from “offshore tax evasion”. Here is what I would tell the IRS/Treasury if I were the EU and everyone else around the world: Clean up your own back yard before walking into mine demanding a chaisse longe!
The very thought that the IRS, EU and OECD would set up a monster data exchange when the IRS can’t figure out how to stop fraud by what appears – from the arrests made – from uneducated low-level crooks is simply mind-boggling! Think of the hay day the real sophisticated international criminal networks and hackers are going to have when they get a hold of the new International Tax numbers these fools are wanting to create. They must be salivating.
If you watch the CBS video to the end you will hear the CBS reporter sum up the problem this way: “When you see that big time drug criminals giving up drugs to scam the IRS because there is more money, less likelihood of getting caught, and the sentence for stealing millions of dollars is just 5 years, you know we have a problem.” I guess this is one way to end the War on Drugs. Given them an easier target for making money rather than drug running? Yea, that works.
My friends, if FATCA goes GATCA, then any semblance of individual freedoms and liberties will have been flushed down the toilet in the name of “stopping tax evasion” by bureaucrats who have no controls placed on them by compliant Parliaments and Congress who don’t bother going through the process of actual public hearings, committee hearings, floor debates, and actual voting only after this ‘due process’ takes place.
BIG GLOBAL initiatives like this only come in the back door through collusion amongst like minded ideologically driven bureaucrats back up by co-enabling Capitalist Compliance Complex of BIG Accounting firms and tax practitioners who can clearly see an increase in their budgets, billable hours and grants of new powers beyond ANYTHING they would actually recoup in revenues for their treasury from the effort. It is a FATCAnatics wet dream! It is about Control, not Collection. If sold at all to a compliant populace, it is an agenda hidden behind some vague notion of ‘fairness’ and Tax Justice. who can be against that, right?
Here is something that must always be remembered: There is never a perfect process in a democratic state; perfection is only achieved in dictatorships. The very idea that ALL of this expensive effort would somehow stop tax evasion or root out tax cheats (“once and for all” as Max Baucus said) is sheer nonsense. More importantly, this global auto exchange process will NOT miraculously solve the problem of governments spending more than they can afford, and and the so called new revenues will not help balance budgets. That is simply the most absurd arguments of all. GATCA WILL DO NONE OF THESE THINGS!! But, it will lead to more ‘dictatorship of the ‘bureaucrat’ at the expense of the democratic process, and again, Sophie is wise to worry about the direction FATCA ‘policy laundering’ is taking Europe.
Finally, back to the EU FATCA hearing and something Herr Giegold said. I’m sure he’s a wonderful guy, though I don’t know him personally. This is what got to me viscerally however:
He spoke that the history of efforts for data exchange to stop “tax cheats” as being a long one going back to the League of Nations. I won’t argue that point; I’ll accept that he’s done the history. All I’ll say is I would be more receptive to that argument if a French, Dutch, or English person made the point. I, personally, have a hard time hearing that out of a German’s mouth. Not only because of why the League of Nations was instituted to begin with, but also as I consider what the subsequent history of the Nazis aggression across Europe and the impacts on another diaspora. Had Himmler had access to a data exchange agreement like the one proposed by FATCA and the additional call for a global automatic exchange which Giegold seems to believes should be done, what would they have wrought? When he thanked the IRS for spurring the EU into “action” my visceral response was “Well, No thanks!! I have seen the results of those actions before.”
I apologize for the length of this missive, but as you probably can tell, I was at once appalled and frightened at the same time at what I heard, what I saw, and particularly all of the things that simply aren’t being said at all!
May I suggest – if we haven’t done so already – someone inform Sophie of the very UN-parliamentary way FATCA was “passed”, and the VERY limited power of the IRS to write or influence ALL of this exchange of data and reciprocity issue they have promised.
The IRS has NO authority to even suggest they have the power to make Congress do these things! They are the biggest frauds I’ve seen in a long time. Madoff could have learned some things from this! Perhaps you can also suggest that she organize a visit to the European Parliament by members of the JCT, so they hear what is being proposed and proffered by the IRS supposedly in the name of the US Congress. I have no doubt they would be absolutely appalled as well.
Thank you for sharing this great piece and while long, it covers the many facets of the issues reaised at the ‘hearing’. I have a couple of comments and a recommendation.
My comment regarding the hearing is while watching it, and following this issue for the past few years, what amazes me is how relatively easily national legislation relating to Consitutional/EU privacy and similarl laws relating to national origin discrimination around the world are so directly and easily side stepped by a GOVERNMENT (not a private person/company) when that government wants to do something (e.g. enter into an IGA). Hearings are not truely public, discussions in secrets all designed to get the IGA in place without democratic debate. In addition, what is equally amazing is I have yet to hear a government actually address the fact that it is their JOB to stand up for the rights of their citizens (i.e. dual citizens living in the dual’s country who happens to have US citizenship also) but have consistently thrown their own citizens under the FATCA bus. It is as if these soverign nations are basically saying ‘resistance is futile’ when it comes to a demand from the Empire. Canada is uniquing positioned due to the sheer number of USPs in the country, and China for its economic power balance over the Empire, so if these two countries ‘fall’ and sign an IGA the game is pretty much over at this level.
My recommendations are (i) the above comprehensive post/blog entry should be put in at least an email form and sent to ACA, to Ways and Means, to Sen Rand Paul. If it were me doing it, I would also put it in a letter format and send it to every member of Congress (ii) separate from this excellent post, perhaps it would be helpful to prepare an open letter to Obama to be published in the Washington Post, NYT (other?) from US citizens overseas, the horrible effects of FATCA and citizenship based taxation in a full one page spread. There are enough affected people around the world that we should be able to pool the necessary cash to get this done. ACA and Repeal FATCA would be a good starting point. (iii) if it is not already being done, funding and resources need to be put in place in Canada to file the class action suits the moment an IGA is announced. It would also be worth the effort to approach the US ACLU on this issue. They have said they will sue the IRS for the recent charity scandal so perhaps they can assist in the US.
Normally I do not write that much, but wanted to get the above thoughts out and off my chest. Thanks for ‘listening’.
Steve, you make good points.
I hope your post doesn’t get lost in amongst all the other dialogues happening here at IBS on the first evening of June 2013.
Excellent perspective. I couldn’t agree more. One thought which crossed my mind while reading it, is the believed shift of laundered money over to Asia. In Asia, the following was written in the press yesterday:
http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2013/06/02/949157/phl-monitoring-vs-money-laundering-weak-us-report
Al Jazeera English aired a good discussion of FATCA, privacy rights violations and reciprocity in relation to the Swiss banks on 30 May.
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2013/05/201353182417231317.html
Comments can be sent to insidestory@aljazeera.net
@Steve Klaus
Very well said. It is a tough fight and the opponent is very well versed in the tactic of “Divide and Conquer”. Particularly when the majority of those to be conquered are scared of the consequences of any actions they take. Somehow, the attention and support of the US Diaspora must be gathered.
One thing left out. Europé is codependently hungry to get at the accounts of its Citizens overseas. A number of them have worked or visited US, and it is indeed a good Place for them to continue investing at no interest. The potential Revenue recovery is small —- these are small fish and mutual funds are paying virtually nothing in today’s economy.
Hence, reciprocity sounds like a way to get at what they want without making much legislative effort. All they need to do is to help with the tax evader propaganda and to bury any mention of human beings.
To them, it matters little that their country will be paying out to PWC & KPMG, as their bank associations are REQUESTING them to allow them to do it. Their media is programmed for tax evasion articles. Civil rights can be buried in the looney bin category.
Brainstorming is needed to try to find angles that provide winning situations for politicians: how can a politician look good in the media? How can the media get information that is suitable for headlines? How can media coverage drive the political decisions?
Rallying words Steve Klaus, thank you.
i can’t help but feel that many of us are at the breaking point, enough that we can no longer sit idle. Not knowing what the Canadian government will do is very, very distressing. There’s nothing many of us would like more than to have an event like the this take place somewhere in Canada. I think our turn out would be significantly larger than the one in Brussels.
@ Steve – As for your suggestion of an open letter to Obama, I’m afraid you are overlooking the obvious – THIS IS HIS SCHEME!! Shulman is his pit-bull. Lew is now Sec’y of Treasury. It was the Obama debt that facilitated the excuse for these changes. All of this comes from the fiscal mismanagement of the Obama White House. Government debt DOES equate to slavery – and the IRS are the new “Massahs” – “Fill out our forms correctly or Ve haf vays to make your Life v e r y diffikult for you!” Remember my fellow Americans that Shulman and others in the Obama administration – all from Chicago – learned this lesson from another fellow Chicagoan, Al Capone. Al Capone was not convicted from any of the crimes he committed but from TAX EVASION! So if the only agency in our government that can declare you GUILTY until you prove your innocence can also determine the very criteria that puts you into that situation with the power both to put liens on ALL of your property (without court orders or prior notification I might add) as well as fine you $10,000 for every mistake, tell me how you are free except as a Pavlovian dog where they own the bell? No outrageous government debt, no draconian excuses for “doing everything we can to stop tax evasion”, even while they demonstrate an systemic inability to actually control the entire process.
Mark Twain: I am certain that you are correct when you say that if a similar hearing was held in Canada that the turn out (and protest perhaps outside?) would be much larger than what transpired in Brussels. In fact, the issues are so fundamental for Canada that public hearings SHOULD BE mandatory rather than the ‘secret’ discussions taking place. Canada is uniqely positioned.
Patric: Yes, I understand that Obama is part and parcel of the problem and he is the driving force. My suggestion for a full page Open Letter to Obama and Congress (perhaps written with the assistance of ACA) is to raise the issues in the media and get them out in the open. I have absolutely no belief at all that Obama has any interest in changing his tax and spend position or seeking to tax anything that moves.
I am not an expert on Canadian law or the best way to structure a legal action to oppose, however, I am confident that Isaac Brock members and friends have the contacts to find the best and the brightest, and REPEAL FATCA and others should be able to reach out to the ACLU and others on the US side of the fence (within the Empire). What I am concerned about is that we (collectively) wait too long – it is much harder to get an IGA ‘pulled’ once agreed. Public hearings on the issue in Canada should be demanded now as a right of the Canadian people to fully and openly participate in this process.
Opps – one more comment regarding reciprocity – countries like Germany would have an interest in reciprocity as it relates to accounts held by German citizens/German residents (i.e. living in Germany) for German tax enforcement. In fact, I can appreciate why a government would want to be able to get information on accounts held outside of a country by a citizen/resident living in the country depending on the country’s tax structure. What (as we all know) makes FATCA so horrible is US citizenship based taxation. The US is seeking to enlist others (FFIs) to find and disclose accounts of its citizens living anywhere on the planet (not just citizens resident in the US). THIS for me is the heart of the issue and why this law and its premise is so bad. The media confuses ‘reciprocity’ and makes it sound like what Germany and the UK and France wants is the same as what the US is pursuing which is absolutely not the case. Note that the Obama ‘budget’ proposal seeking authority for the Treasury/IRS to disclose does not mandate disclosure of account information for dual US/foreign citizens living in the US (just foreign visa residents). The US is NOT throwing its dual citizens living in the US under the bus, but is mandating that other countries do so for its citizens. This is a travesty.
FINAL UK IGA REGULATIONS are issued…
http://www.iss-mag.com/regulations-and-compliance/hmrc-issues-fatca-regulations-and-compliance
Here is the Guidance… and the ‘copy paste’ model for EU capitulation
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/fatca/130531-guidance.pdf
I just started to read this, but here is how they are modifying their law to meet the US requirements. Do you think any MPs will notice…?? Looks like they are taking the US budget approach. Asking for regulatory authority, and hoping no one notices or objects.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/fatca/130531-guidance.pdf
The UK legislation bringing into effect the implementation of the UK-US Treaty is contained at clause 219 of the 2013 Finance Bill. This clause provides HM Treasury with powers to make Regulations to give effect to the Agreement (and other similar Agreements). The Regulations (The International Tax
Compliance (United States of America) Regulations 2013) can be accessed on HMRC’s website at http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/fatca/index.htm
@Just Me
In the years of following IBS, I have seen few posts as profound as this one. It is thoughtful and frightening. I’ve two comments to add:
So the end result of all of this joyous and wonderful “co-operation” brought on by FATCA would result in how much actual lost tax revenue returned to national Treasuries??? Remember, THAT is ‘supposedly’ the purpose of this entire exercise! The answer is a veritable pittance. But we will have a global GATCA cemented in place to show for it.
OK, it is a pittance today, but I believe all of the conspirators know that it will be much more than a pittance soon enough. If you look at the numbers 2.6t in revenue and 3.8t in spending, you can see that there is a problem of enourmous magnitude. Supposedly, the USG must spend 46% more than it earns to save their economy, but this is unlikely to be a temporary situation
The recession/melt down is the excuse of the day for the spending rate, just as the global war on terror and the internet bubble burst were the excuses of the prior presidencies. The excuses will change, but the spending will not. It may indeed fall only slightly, but the more likely conclusion and the one that will serve the new masters of our universe is for tax rates to rise by MORE THAN 46%.
There are many motivations for tax evasion, but two factors strongly determine an economy’s rate of evasion: fairness and risk/reward. The Greeks proved this to the world. With everybody cheating, there was no sense of fairness and with a deeply indebted socialist economy, the tax rates were so high and evasion rates so high that the risk/reward calculus favored evasion. Evasion was so widespread in Greece that it was effectively legal.
The US is in the same boat. Americans on shore use widespread and perfectly legal tax avoidance schemes. They load up on mortgages that drive down their tax rate. They give themselves (through their lobbies and the electorate) huge tax breaks on pre-paid medical insurance, child tax credits, and so on and so on. And to enable this avoidance, the US supports now more than 18,000 pages of individual tax code (with another 53,000+ for corporate taxes). (Federal alone!)
It is well known and old news that if you ask five preparers to do your US taxes, you will receive five very different results. Fairness is as forsaken as it is in airline ticket prices on the same flight. Now, add to that tax rates that must, without a doubt rise above 50% for the un-represented segments, then you will have tax avoidance transform into tax evasion.
This is all about capital controls.
There is a famous joke about Deng Xiaoping and his driver. As they approach an intersection, the driver exclaims “Chairman, the left turn road is blocked and we can only turn right!”. Deng calmly says “Nothing to worry about; signal left and turn right.”
There is never a perfect process in a democratic state; perfection is only achieved in dictatorships. The very idea that ALL of this expensive effort would somehow stop tax evasion or root out tax cheats (“once and for all” as Max Baucus said) is sheer nonsense.
When the Berlin Wall came down, a very good friend commented that this is the end of Communism and the beginning of the end of Capitalism. I thought he was nuts, but your post tells me that he was prescient. The borders are going up in advance of the great taxation. These are not the physical “Berlin Walls” of a different era, but the financial and informational walls. And now, it is a sad irony now that it is the US that is signalling right and turning left…
The Cold War is over and the Chinese have won.
oops – formatting error and no way to fix. hope you can figure out where i meant to put quotes. sorry…
My putting quotes in for you would be a guess. If you tell me where you intended quotes, I can fix it, Orwell.
Many thanks, Calgary.
Second pgh “So the end,,,” needs quotes around the whole pgh.
Third to last pgh “There is never…” also needs quotes around the whole.
The bold and italics should go. It seems to have applied them the everything from second pgh down. Many thanks again.
@Orwell, excellent view! Don’t worry about errors. I make typos all the time, but it is the message that matters, not the typo.
@Orwell
I fixed it for you… and good comment. Thanks for making it Well said…
Yes, the NeoCons gave the Chinese Iraqi oil, and the FATCAnatics are giving the Chines the rest of the financial system.
Many thanks, JM, Calg and SwissPinoy
@orwell
What’s the difference between capitalism and communism? Capitalism is man exploiting man, communism is the opposite.
Orwell – Nice to see you stopped spinning around in your grave enough to make an excellent comment. Here is my view:
The USA will be doomed anyway if government continues to overspend and NONE of the tax cheats could imagine stocking $6.5 trillion offshore of tax money. Remember, since the effective tax rate of the wealthy is roughly 28%, $6.5 trillion in tax revenue equates to $23 trillion! That’s equivalent to 34% of the global GDP. That’s why the US debt is simply outrageous. But it was run up only partially for economic reasons; it is being used ENTIRELY for political reasons. The very last thing “progressives” want is to balance the budget – that would eliminate their excuses for all of these excesses. Since you, Orwell, actually wrote several books on this subject – both “1984” and “Animal Farm” – this shouldn’t surprise you.
As for the Berlin Wall, I have an intimate relationship with it. I was a student in West Berlin between 1971-74. My first year there I lived in a student dormitory not 50 meters from the Wall and was awoken many nights by machine gun fire as people who refused to believe the propaganda about the “people’s paradise” tried to leave “without permission”. During those years, I traveled to Dresden, Prague, and Budapest and saw the “progressives” idea of “managed economic equality” up close and personal – it wasn’t a pretty picture! I was subsequently a senior executive at CNN charged with bringing the blessings of a free global TV news to everywhere in the east all the way to Moscow. I helped transform all of these countries to the importance of free press – though they all knew it by then viscerally.
I returned to America in 1998 after 28 years living in France, Germany, and the UK, and traveling virtually around the world several times, including visiting China in 1985 on a day trip out of Macao just after it was permitted. In the past 15 years, and particularly in the last 4, I’d never imagined that so much neo-Marxist nonsense could permeate our country. We may have defeated communism, but clearly we have not defeated the communists!
But back to economics: What happens when governments overspend is first their overspending puts a governor on the engine of economic growth so it doesn’t create wealth as fast as before. Second, because of this, governments don’t collect as much in taxation as before. Why not – not for the reason you think. 80% of the individual taxes paid to the US Treasury come from those making $200,000 plus, “the rich”. The rich got that way because they are the ones who actually know how to create wealth in society; it is a competency, not luck. Governments – ALL governments – have absolutely NO competency for creating wealth! That is why communism failed – if you want to know how to grow apples, do you ask an apple farmer or a bureaucrat?
So when government’s failure at “investing” in America becomes more evident – as it clearly is, particularly in solar energy – suddenly rather than increases in wealth, we have losses that have to be made up through increased taxes. But in a democracy, NO politician of either party wants to increase them on everyone – just on the rich because clearly they aren’t paying “their fair share”. So up those taxes go and more revenue comes into the government. But does the government actually use the money to pay down the debt that caused all of this to begin with? No – they actually spend even more than they take in.
This sets up the situation that Maggie Thatcher rightly said: “The problem with governments like this is eventually they run out of other people’s money.” But long before that happens, the rich aren’t simply going to sit around an wait for the government to take everything they have and be blamed for it at the same time – they are simply going to leave.
The 20th century is so long on this subject I’m simply stunned otherwise intelligent people just refuse to see this. And prior to that day they will have figured out – because the rich got rich by figuring these things out – how to move at least enough of their assets out of the country. Whether it was the Jews in Germany under the Nazis, the Cubans before Castro, most everyone from Eastern Europe, the boat people from Vietnam – you name it. We’ve already started seeing these moves already by Americans.
This is where FATCA comes in: Obama & Cie, with Shulman as the Heinrich Himmler of this merry gang, figured this out and realized that the only way to PREVENT this is to make it impossible for any American to hide any of their wealth anywhere outside of the USA, and if someone denounces his/her citizenship, then they would simply ban them from ever visiting the USA or trying to reclaim it ever again. Folks – this is the stuff of Stalin and Hitler, not our beloved America!!! (Except even they weren’t this diabolical!).
So the scenario is playing itself out that eventually, O & Cie will be happy to let any American live in a “tax haven” in the Caribbean, but if they ever try to go anywhere else the IRS Gestapo will catch them, extradite them, and will be declared guilty until they prove themselves innocent. I sometime wonder if Obama isn’t keeping Gitmo open for future use against overseas Americans caught under FATCA….
Speaking of that, it just occured to me the word “extradite” hasn’t been actually discussed anywhere. If all of these IGAs are signed giving the IRS authority over overseas Americans to fill out the 668 forms correctly – or else! – would they also apply laws of extradition for any overseas American who refuses?
But to end this, Orwell, sadly I must concur with your conclusion: The Cold War is over and the Chinese have won… only because we’ve defeated ourselves by watching one “enabling act” after another passed into law by having them slipped into unrelated legislation that could never be voted against because of these “viral” clauses. At least Hitler had the audacity of getting the Reichstag to vote on his enabling act that everyone read, everyone understood, and everyone agreed to – but only after the bombing of the Reichstag. “Patriot Act” anyone?
@Plato… Thumbs up!
Great post and Thanks @Orwell for a great comment.
1. That (from the Form Nation perspective) “tax cheat” John Templeton said:
“Those who spend too much will eventually be owned by those who are thrifty”
http://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/2011/11/03/anticipating-restrictions-on-moving-capital-out-of-the-u-s/
I wouldn’t say that the Chinese won. I would say that the U.S. lost. By embracing the “Kiss of debt, the U.S. has ceded control over its destiny to China”.
2. I agree that the result of FATCA will end Human Freedom. Ronald Reagan was prescient in saying that “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.”
http://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/freedom-is-never-more-than-one-generation-away-from-extinction/
But, unless stopped the U.S. will end human freedom this generation.
3. Many years ago I was listening to a discussion between two businessman. One of them said that the result of government coordinating tax systems on a global scale would – a tax rate of 90%. Guess he was anticipating GATCA.
I never thought I would see the day that the United States would lead the world in ending human freedom. Orwell was a prophet.
With FATCA the US has declared war on freedom loving people of the world. As Orwell reminded us:
War is peace.
Through “policy laundering” the public are kept ignorant.
Ignorance is strength.
FATCA will result in the end of human freedom.
Freedom is slavery.
@ Mr. Anonymous Economist
“All I’ll say is I would be more receptive to that argument if a French, Dutch, or English person made the point. I, personally, have a hard time hearing that out of a German’s mouth.”
I judge people by what they say or do, not by where their ancestors (about whom I have absolutely no means of judging in any case) came from. I don’t know Mr. Giegold personally either, but what I’ve read from him regarding FATCA strikes me as being surprisingly naive and ill-informed. In contrast, I found your post to be insightful and well stated — until I reached the above quote, at which point you lost all credibility with me.
I think if you listen to the tape, you will find out that he is not ill informed, he is choking upon what he knows, so as not to allow it out in the meeting. Something like, “when USA fixed that those 2 vetos would disappear” — which he swallowed and continued on with. Same with EU sovereignty, reciprocity, all such issues. The German IGA 2 page agreement is all Germany does this by that date, Germany will do this, Germany will do that.
@Plato, the following showed up on my feed yesterday, about modern day extradition for tax crimes:
So, in the future, we can maybe expect for accidentals in Europe who are not diaspora-tax compliant to be extradited.