I just sent this to every MP:
What is your Party’s Position on FATCA?
The Green party has released its position on FATCA.
One million voting Canadian citizens and their families and friends are waiting to hear your party’s position.
http://www.greenparty.ca/statement/2013-01-28/backgrounder-canada-and-fatca
Sincerely,
@Em, @WhiteKat and all who are posting the responses from their MPs.; thanks for keeping us aware of the different angles being taken out there, and the ignorance on the issue, or the decision to offer appeasement of the US as their position. Very illuminating.
Today I got a response from Laurie Hawn (Conservative MP from Edmonton Centre). It wasn’t a particularly encouraging response but it did give me an opportunity to reply with a link to Don Whiteley’s article. I also said that NO FATCA, NO IGA would be the best solution because there is already a more than adequate tax treaty in place. Here’s an excerpt from Ms. Hawn’s e-mail (the rest was a suggestion to contact the Dept. of Finance and Kevin Shoom which I’d already done ages ago) …
Our Government has raised serious concerns directly with the US about FATCA. We strongly believe FATCA has far reaching extraterritorial implications and would raise significant privacy concerns for Canadians.
While we’re pleased the US has taken note of our concerns by delaying FATCA’s implementation, this is only a first step. We are actively negotiating with the United States to reach a solution that both countries find agreeable, and that treats Canadian citizens fairly.
The abolition of citizenship taxation is the only thing that will allow Canadian citizens to be treated fairly, or, perhaps the US should tax all Canadians whether they are USP’s or not?
@ Bubblebustin
So true but that of course is not something that can be dictated by Canada. However, there must be things the Canadian government could do to mitigate the effects of US citizenship-based taxation on its Canadian residents. It could, for instance, fast-track applications for Canadian citizenship for Americans who have made Canada their home. (I think 3 years residency wouldn’t be too unreasonable for this.) It could give all duals the opportunity to swear an official oath which would state that they are only Canadian citizens and no longer considered dual in Canada and make it retroactive to the date of their Canadian citizenship. It could make it clear to the US government that it cannot claim accidental Americans for its own and certainly not Canadian born or naturalized citizens who do not live in the USA and do not have a current green card. And it cannot claim those to whom US citizenship is currently forced upon them without recourse, like calgary411’s son. It could forbid all Canadian financial institutions to supply the information the IRS is demanding via FATCA. Canada can write legislation which would truly protect the victims of US citizenship and personhood. It simply has to do it because the USA might never see the light regarding its unique and onerous tax laws.
I agree, now is the time for the Government of Canada to begin to take extraordinary measures to protect itself and its citizens against this act of aggression by the United States. In doing so, the Government of Canada must give consideration to the long-term effect its permanent residents and citizens with US tax and reporting requirements will have on the economic stability and tax base of Canada. Eventually, Canadian immigration authorities may need to recognize that US persons seeking residence here have inherently divided loyalties forced upon them by US tax policies, therefore becoming potential liabilities to Canada. As a result, it may become necessary for the Canadian government to restrict US persons from seeking permanent residency and citizenship in Canada.
I received a personalized response to an email I sent Kevin Shoom recently. I won’t post the whole response, but basically he recommended I consult a tax advisor. That seems to be the standard response from all politicians. Its like they don’t care about the whole human rights violation issue.
Here is a response I received in an email dialogue I had recently with an MP (PC party) from a city where I used to live in until very recently:
Thank you for your follow-up e-mail. To clarify, the purpose of the call would not have been to discuss personal advice about your situation (for advice on these matters you should consult an experienced tax advisor). Rather, having personally attended meetings with representatives from the IRS specifically on FATCA and FBAR rules, I was seeking an opportunity for my staff to elaborate on some of the circumstances that led to this law which includes a massive oversight of how new rules would impact millions of dual Canadian and American Citizens – many of whom have never lived in the United States or filed taxes there – and what our Government is doing about it.
Alternatively, I am happy to provide you with information via e-mail that I trust will be of relevance.
First, you may be interested in reading this letter from Finance Minister Jim Flaherty last September when FATCA regulations really began garnering significant national attention: http://business.financialpost.com/2011/09/16/read-jim-flahertys-letter-on-americans-in-canada/
Our Government continues to raise serious concerns directly with the US about FATCA. We strongly believe FATCA has far reaching extraterritorial implications and would raise significant privacy concerns for Canadians.
While we’re pleased the US has taken note of our concerns by recently delaying FATCA’s implementation, this was only a first step. We are actively negotiating with the United States to reach a solution that both countries find agreeable, and that treats Canadian citizens fairly.
Formal negotiations with the United States are currently ongoing. I have attached a formal notice of these negotiations issued this past November for your reference. (This is the bulletin which prompted a response from Mr. Hogg, who’s views will be given every due consideration).
Our Government will continue to stand up for the interests of Canadians, many of whom were blindsided this past summer when they learned about FATCA. Moreover, I would note that although our Government has no jurisdiction about decisions made by the United States Government for American Citizens, our Government has stated clearly that CRA will not be collecting penalties imposed under FBAR filing requirements.
I hope that this information is helpful and assure you that these matters are taken very seriously by our Government. We will continue to proactively stand up for Canadians on this issue.
Re: above email from MP. Here is my response back:
I have previously read the letter you refer to which Finance Minister Jim Flaherty wrote 1 and 1/2 years ago. It seemed a strong statement against FATCA, but since then Flaherty has expressed approval of the new ‘streamlined OVDP program’ released Sept 2012, and there has been a very quiet – too quiet – invitation on the Finance website for public submissions regarding the fact that the government was (and still is) engaged in negotiations over FATCA with the US government.
There seems to be an assumption on the part of the government that those in a similar situation as mine, actually want to become compliant which involves among other things:
Spending tens of thousands on accountants and lawyers;
Risking draconian penalties;
Completely overhauling life-long family financial plans, for example by selling non-US mutual funds(treated as passive foreign investment corporations by IRS), cashing out RESPs(treated as foreign trusts by IRS), cashing out TFSAs(taxable in USA), etc, etc.
Committing to ongoing yearly compliance costs and numerous forms of ever increasing complexity which makes our Canadian tax forms look amazingly simple by comparison;
Revealing all details of our non-US accounts (for most of us that is ALL our accounts) to a foreign government;
Forcing our non-‘US person’ spouses to share the details of jointly held accounts with a foreign government;
Risking the security of our entire families private financial information by sending it to a foreign government with known identity theft problems
The right thing for our government to do is to reject FATCA and reject an IGA with the USA for FATCA – not continue to negotiate a ‘deal’. If Canada MUST appease USA by signing an IGA, the only way to do that without violating Canada’s Charter of Rights is to do as Peter Hogg suggests at the end of his letter to the Finance Committee which is to apply FATCA to ‘US persons’ living outside of Canada, not to Canadian citizens resident in Canada.
Excellent, excellent response to your MP, WhiteKat!
Take a firm stand, Canada, that the Canadian Charter of Rights protects all of its people. Mean what you say, Finance Minister Flaherty. What an obvious proper use of the Charter of Rights, while setting an example for the rest of the world. The US should not be the king of (or bully of) the rest of the world. As, Finance Minister Flaherty stated, there are already means in place to fight tax evasion here in Canada.
http://business.financialpost.com/2011/09/16/read-jim-flahertys-letter-on-americans-in-canada/
@WhiteKat, thanks for sharing that. I’m having trouble parsing it.
I’m not completely clear about the position taken by the MP, but very interested in their meeting with the IRS. Confused by the wording there. Did they seek to get ‘elaboration’ from you by telephone, or have their staff ‘elaborate’ the IRS position as received in their meeting? Does that mean explaining to you the rationale and justification that the IRS offered up in the meeting, for perpetrating this travesty on Canada and the world?
We are continually being offered the same (by now dated) statement by Flaherty. The existing treaty apparently is being interpreted as NOT currently providing for Canada to assist the US in the collection of FBAR penalties for anyone, and assistance with US tax assessed only if the person was NOT a Canadian citizen at the time the US tax liability ‘arose’. Are we to interpret this as in – Flaherty’s stance is still exactly the same as it was in the fall of 2011, and we can still rely on it? If so, then what possible resolution could be reached that would satisfy BOTH nations – as the US insists on the standard clause in the existing reciprocal tax treaty that says that they reserve the right to tax all US citizens where-ever they reside -as well as the ‘last in time rule’ and apparently, via the IGAs are insisting that FATCA is merely an extension of existing treaties.
Interesting that he/she acknowledges Mr. Hogg’s letter, and says that it will be given ‘due consideration’ (although that is a non-committal phrase and could mean anything or nothing).
Any Canadian permanent residents who are not US compliant and have not applied for their Canadian citizenship need to do that – for whatever additional protection that might possibly afford. I fear though that there are many who still don’t know about any of this.
@WhiteKat, great response re what ‘compliance’ entails. That is not an option for many. There is no guarantee as to whether people will be accepted to the Streamlined program, AND the rules are very narrow and exclude many more. It is NOT a panacea. And the costs of that compliance – to ensure perfect submissions, are very high. There is no way of knowing before coming forward what will happen, and there has been silence. We don’t know what people are experiencing, or who/how many have been successful. Some are still stuck in OVD who are minnows, or who simply are being held because of the size of their savings, or the sale of their home. That is unacceptable – that the sale of a Canadian family home can be taxed by a ‘foreign’ government, and then used to extort penalties. I’m glad you mentioned that compliance would also mean never having a Canadian mutual fund, RESP, TFSA, etc. AND exposing our financial information and that of non-US persons to a ‘foreign’ country and to potential identity theft. Great and inspiring letter!
@ badger
Overall, I think the dialogue we had was just more political “fluff fluff'”. What I heard was: “Yes, we know USA taxation policy is unfair and FATCA sucks, but you have to comply because you were born there and they say so. Don’t worry though, we are working very hard in negotiations with the USA to formulate an IGA that won’t be too painful. In the meantime, go see a tax advisor.”
We are going to get some action soon out of the EU Parliament in Brussels. And yes there will be public hearing just informed of this today. We really do need this in terms of countries other than Canada.
@badger
Yes, there are lots of people who don’t have a clue what is about to hit them. I didn’t until last November when Hurricane Sandy hit.
@whitekat
I remember exactly where I was, like when Kennedy was assassinated.
@ WhiteKat — Well done! I did my best to reply to all the meaningful responses I got from my 300 MPs e-mail blitz but now I wish I had had your e-mail to use as a template. So far, with the exception of my own MP, I have not received any replies to my replies to their responses.
@Tim: date of Brussels hearing is?
Late May no exact date set. The time is NOW to put pressure politicians in Europe especially among the ALDE in the EU Parliament. We can kill this sucker.
The woman in these videos is the big anti FATCA ringleader
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2ZRrguoeF0
You might get the idea there is a certain degree of history between her and the US
Wow — and all she has is a mostly empty room. Reminds me of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l9Va9t2H_0.
@ Bubblebustin,
I was living in Dallas when Kennedy was assassinated – don’t remember it though because I was a baby.
@ Em,
I doubt I will get another response to my response.
Calgary411
She actually sued the US government in US court over a privacy rights violation.
http://www.plainsite.org/flashlight/case.html?id=131414
Good for her! A woman I might understand — (maybe as she was born 20 years to the day after my birth) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_in_%27t_Veld
@WhiteKat, thank you for the clarification, sorry, didn’t mean for you to post more of the original. IBS can edit it at your request. Interesting that the MP was so keen to speak with you. And interested that they showed they already knew of some of the ramifications of the problem. Very familiar with your dilemma, any way it is approached it is too painful.
@badger
That’s OK – hope you didn’t mind reading it all. How would I get IBS to remove the post I directed specifically towards you re: all the back and forth dialogue?