This is a skilled government mouthpiece sounding article, covering about 20% of the issue with lots of chatter about taxes, celebrities, government data and no mention of FATCA, banks, FBAR penalties and all the many other issues that the government doesn’t want for stateside Americans to know anything about. This is a brilliant means of fooling gullible statesiders into being utterly clueless about the world beyond US jurisdiction with the threat of having “no more protection from the U.S. government” and the apparent evil concept of spending tourist dollars in the US. So, enjoy!
Should You Renounce Your Citizenship?
By Caroline Kim | Yahoo! Finance – 3 hours ago
Would you renounce your U.S. citizenship if it meant you’d be sending less of your hard-earned dollars to Uncle Sam?
As Americans face higher taxes and stricter enforcement, a growing number of them are, indeed, deciding to turn in their US passports. As of 2013, 77% of Americans will pay higher federal tax rates because the cuts in Social Security payroll taxes expired when Congress passed its tax package on New Year’s Day.
But the wealthiest households face the highest tax increases. From 2009 to 2011, the number of expatriates, or those who renounced their U.S. citizenship, doubled to 1,781.
Aside from the tone of the article itself, off the top of my head I can see at least three blatant factual errors. Fact checkers asleep on the job?
1. Chinese laws prohibiting dual citizenship are not applied in Hong Kong
2. 1997 was not a record year for “published expatriates” because the lists published that year covered 1995 and 1996 too. 2011 is still the record year. Whatever that might mean.
3. The “Asian names” in the 1997 list were almost all Korean, not Chinese. (I think they were mostly the ones who lost their shirts in the 1992 LA riots and eventually decided to give up and go home after their insurance claims were refused; been trying to write a post on that topic for weeks but the research & translation is going slowly.) The author of the article has a Korean surname and is clearly aware of matters Korean in general (e.g. all her previous posts about Gangnam Style), so I imagine there’s a decent chance this would have occurred to her if she had actually looked at the list itself …
They just don’t get it do they!
I like the comment with regards to “no more protection from the United States government”…well…what kind of protection takes away life credit units and sleepless nights whilst one is trying to jump through the IRS hoops in an attempt to become compliant …only to be tag-teamed by the IRS and your local professional Accountant!
All these articles circulate around the ‘famous faces’ and millionaire/billionaire types. What about the regular joe lunchbox(s) like myself that relinquished because of rapidly changing legislation and extra-territorial foreign pressure and threats?
The general relinquishing populous are not rich, tax evading criminals, but rather law abiding citizens (of another country) paying a higher tax rate than if one lived/worked in the United States.
Maybe one day the general media will understand that we relinquished/renounced to get our lives back…..not to avoid paying taxes.
There is space to comment on enforced US citizenship at this Toronto Star article by Thomas Walkom (focus not re taxes, but re Kenney’s proposal to strip dual Canadians of citizenship if involved in terrorist activities). It makes a significant error in statements re dual Canadian – US citizenship – as if the US status is entirely voluntary and can easily be rectified – as if it was our ‘choice’ to be US citizens (and to have a US passport): ….”Yet even if the proposed revocation measures were limited to dual citizens, they would be remarkably broad. Many native-born Canadians are dual nationals. Some, such as the Canadian-born children of American parents, carry two passports by choice.
Others are dual nationals because they have no choice. Syria and China don’t easily allow their nationals to renounce the citizenship they were born with. Egypt treats the children of Egyptian-born fathers as its citizens, no matter where they are born. The list goes on.
In short, more Canadians than one might think are dual nationals.”….
from http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/02
The US should have been included in the list of countries which ‘don’t easily allow their nationals to renounce…’, because the process, the 450. fee, and the hurdle of IRS certifying that you have been 5 years compliant effectively prevents us. As we know, there is nothing currently ‘voluntary’ about it for those who inherited the status from a US parent or who were merely accidently born there. The article also acts as if having a US passport is voluntary, whereas it is mandatory for any US dual citizen to enter the US, or travel through it (via flights to another destination). As we know, even ex-greencard holders are technically unable to leave Hotel IRS without clearing multiple hurdles.
All the more reason to strongly reconsider the thought of having dual citizenship. If it causes more issues than it’s worth, than the choice is clear on what to do. It’s just a matter of doing it.
I can clearly see how difficult and expensive it can be for all of those caught off guard with the ridiculous obligations of the IRS, but in the end, it is what it is, and that is the price of keeping US citizenship – one of which is that you’re obligated to obey their laws, including the IRS tax laws, as well as the laws in your own country. Whining about it alone will not help you. We all know it’s not fair, but don’t expect the US government to give a shit.
Being free of the tax form and penalty club is worth every penny, not to mention that freedom is also worth fighting for.
A self-declared “American Patriot” has spoken:
My response:
@SwissPinoy
Are you sure you’d want to hire someone whom is that angry and stupid? We can’t help animals like that so I wouldn’t even let it bother you.
For all I know, perhaps it is because of animals like him that are the reason why the jobs are leaving America? I may not be business educated, but I sure as hell don’t want that on my payroll!
@mjh49783, ah, I seriously don’t believe that such an individual would want to work abroad, and thus it is safe to offer friendly help concerning something that will never happen. 🙂
@swisspinoy
Of course he wouldn’t. He is after all, safe inside his own little prison, uhh, I meant country. After all, it is so great over there, I can’t possibly understand why he would be so angry.
Oh well. not our problem. ;^)
@mjh, I will always have torn emotions (which are painfully prevalent whilst currently visiting my parents stateside). But I have concluded that having dual citizenship is no longer viable due to all the complexities from having to be compliant with two incompatible tax authorities. Before I was aware of all the problems, keeping both citizenships appealed to me because I feel attached to both countries. But am learning that it’s better not to have divided loyalties.
I already have my application in to renounce and it’s now just a matter of waiting for a date to be set for my first appointment, hopefully in April. Thankfully their waiting list is only a few months long…was relieved when they acknowledged receipt of my copies of my documents and that they’ve put me on the waiting list…assuming things go smoothly, should be able to renounce by May with receipt of CLN by August or September (or hopefully even sooner!!)
I have added courage knowing that my family understand the difficulties and have given me their blessing; plus Brock’s unwavering support! I will always be grateful for all the support and advice I’ve received here.
Yes, I’ve concluded that it’s not going to get easier any time soon and that it makes sense to get out before things inevitably tighten up even further. I will be so relieved when I get all this over and finished…it will be sometime next year when My accountant will file my final tax return for 2013 then a couple more years after that when the statutes of limitation will finally be closed…
@monalisa1776, I used to take much pride in being a citizen of the world’s two oldest democracies and was heavily defensive of such. That was totally awesome! It was very difficult to abandon such, but easier to accept afterwards and the flow of events have been very supportive of my decision. Life goes on as normal as if nothing changed, other than me being more relaxed and less concerned with fewer things to worry about. It’s actually fun to feel more attached and belonging in one’s surroundings!
@monalisa1776
Yes, it is much better not to have divided loyalties in the end. Certainly not if the ideals and/or the laws of both countries conflict with each other. It will then become your problem, and you will have to make a choice.
I don’t have a problem per se with dual citizenship, but one has to be carefully aware of all of the ramifications that come with the countries that you decide to keep. If the pros weigh the cons, then why not go for it? If there are more pitfalls and risks than rewards, then why bother keeping both?
The OP article now seems to claim that it has 16,206 comments with 5500 Facebook recommendations, unless I’m still sleeping since it is early in the morning. That’s crazy!
@mjh, before I fully understood all the problems I believed that renouncing was essentially treasonous. I blamed myself for the mess I was in. But as I became more aware of all the issues, I changed my mind and have grown ambivalent about the U.S. govt’s motives. I no longer have a blind nationalistic patriotism. I’ve grown to share the general consensus here that it’s essentially entrapment. Getting out is not a deninciation but instead an act of self-defense. Sad that it’s come to this though. I will always have a deep affection for America so I’m devastated but need to be able to lead a normal life where I live.
Britain is far from perfect; they seem like America’s poodle so don’t expect any protection by them but have made my life over there and got to get on with it. I can no longer serve two masters; God Save the Queen! 😉
@monalisa1776, a blogger in Thailand kindly asked if he could write my story, so I attempted to put some of my thoughts into words, and I think that it kind of fits with your situation concerning nationalistic patriotism, denunciation, self-defense and leading a normal life. I’m thinking about creating an IBS version of the story:
@swiss, thanks for the link; made quite an interesting read. 🙂
@Monalisa,
I’ve been extremely busy and have been trying to catch up on all the posts, comments, etc. Last I knew, you were considering renouncing but I can see it’s gone way beyond. Having “known” you for over a year via ExpatForum as well as here, I am amazed to see your process. And know how difficult it has been for you. Hope you’re enjoying your visit and I’m delighted to hear that you truly have your family’s support. It is a painful thing to do but I can happily report that the devastation does pass in a similar way that the “blaming oneself for the mess” gives way to anger and then definitive action. For many, remaining onboard is a positive way to vent that anger. Imagine what it is going to be like in a year from now. There will be so many more who finally realize what is happening…….and Brock will still be here for them. Congratulations!
@monalisa1776
Exactly! I would never even thought of leaving before 9/11 had happened, and for every unfortunate event in my life, I used to blame myself for it as well. It seems to be quite a part of the culture there, where people can screw you over and make you feel it’s your fault. Can’t get a job? It’s your fault. It doesn’t even matter if there is no work to be had. Want to do that for a living? You can’t do that! What are you, too good for a real job? Bank plays shell games with your account so they can soak you with multiple NSF charges? Doesn’t matter. That’s your fault, too!
If you’re subjected to that kind of shit for long enough, you’ll either have to be on antidepressants in order to try and cope with life, or else you start to become disillusioned with things. I just started to think to myself, why would a society be so interested in just knocking people down instead of bringing each other up? But then I would think, how could I be so ungrateful in the Land of the Free where there are people in the world that would dream to have what we have? And that, is the trap that a lot of people fall into.
It was only later in life that I actually took a frank, and honest assessment of what I truly had, and realized that I actually had nothing of any real value to show for it. Sure, I had a few tangible things. Big deal. But I was divorced and unhappy, and my spirit felt depleted. I felt burned out from spinning my wheels, and I had no real hope for anything better. I was stuck. Meanwhile, I have watched people get ahead with a lot less merit, and I’ve always wondered how some people just get away with all sorts of crap without any consequence. But what the hell? There was also plenty of people in the same crap situation that I was, so I chalked it up to human nature, but the thought kept nagging me: people actually immigrate here for this?!? But hey! At least I’m not starving, right? Yeah. Only because I went back to my mother’s house! I was starving where I was! 🙁
After 9/11, I was seriously considering the idea of enlisting in the army, as I had no other prospects anyway, plus everyone was understandably pissed off and upset over the attack on the World Trade Center. That was until people on the TV started talking about Iraq! I thought, Uh oh! I’m going to end up being a pawn in this! Saddam may be a real shit to his own people, but what did he have to do with 9/11? So I didn’t sign the enlistment papers. Instead, I waited to see what would happen first, and sure enough, we was going to Iraq over non-existent weapons of mass destruction! Afghanistan? Who cares?!? Damn did I dodge a bullet there! However, I also became disillusioned with the government over it, and I made my stand against the Iraq war because of it. That was when I saw everything change. Suddenly I was the ‘traitor’ because I wouldn’t walk in lockstep with what was obvious bullshit. It was encouraging to know that there was others like me, but we was certainly in the minority, and we never really had much of a voice. Can’t question the president, after all. Don’t you know we’re at war? Eat your porridge propaganda with your side order of freedom fries! It was seemingly as though if we run off some kind of script, then the vitriol becomes really bad, with even death threats, as though you really can’t say what has been deemed ‘unacceptable’. Meanwhile, piece by piece, I watched as freedoms and liberties get eroded, and dismantled, but yet people don’t raise a peep, because things don’t get questioned in war. But, we’ve certainly had plenty of war hawks at home protesting my point of view while the army was complaining that not enough people were enlisting, so they had to do stop loss, and also hire private contractors, aka, mercenaries, to make up the shortfall. I always thought that was real interesting. I do find that it’s a real shame that the soldiers that went to Canada to protest the stop loss are having a hard go at it, and that a few have been deported, but we can’t deny that they’ve signed up for service as there was no draft. Nevertheless, by 2007, I was thinking that I was pretty tired of America, and that I was thinking of a new life abroad. By then I had already watched my father get shafted from his last job, and he faced age discrimination in finding work until he just gave up, and he died of a stroke, by chain smoking himself to death, his dignity stripped from him, and without even any medical coverage – so it was basically ‘work to rule’ at the hospital, even though my mother will insist that he got the best care. Bullshit! I say, but what does that matter now? I can’t raise the dead. So it’s just another chip on my shoulder. But more importantly, I couldn’t just sit around and be accepting blame for things outside my control, and that I shouldn’t have to accept being another victim in this crazy society when I know I deserve at least a fair shot so that I could sink or swim on my own accord!
Essentially, the last straw was when I was visiting my wife one day, I was stopped at the border and threatened by a border officer with a jack boot mentality while trying to leave the US! I posted the details on a different thread, but he had his hand on his gun! I knew at that point that not only was I making the right decision to get out, but that my country had already left me before I left my country. That was when I basically came to the conclusion that I should seek Canadian citizenship once I land, and then relinquish my US citizenship. I was so happy one I landed that my wife and I had a small celebration over it.
Now I just count the days, but I’m already feeling better now than I ever was there at any point in my adult life. It just makes me sad when I watch the news over there and see how things seem to get worse and worse, another shooting here, and another shooting there, how they want to arm teachers in schools, etc…. But I’m now relieved, indeed, very happy, that I’m no longer a part of that vitriolic, dysfunctional, societal mess!
@Nobledreamer and @MJH, they still don’t FULLY understand the situation but at least are aware that I’ve suffered difficulties and realize I’m just trying to simplify my life. But one parent is still convinced that I was somehow negligent and found it incomprehensible that I hadn’t always been using an accountant and financial planner. They also find it hard to comprehend that I shouldn’t continue having to pay U.S. social security, etc. They can’t help it but I still don’t think that some of my relatives fully comprehend what a renunciation entails and that it’s irrevocable. I know I would still really upset them if I have troubles visiting if the Reed Act starts being enforced but life involves risks.
At least they aren’t condemning me and admit that they don’t fully understand all the problems though I’m frustrated that they still think I’m somehow at fault. It’s as though they’re sticking their heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge the malevolence of the U.S. government.
It’s as though Americans are almost brainwashed into refusing to believe that anything truly unfair could happen. I’ve given up; I realize that nobody else is going to rescue me; I’ve got to look out for myself. I just pray it won’t cause more problems further down the line.
@noble, I agree that I’ve come a long way in my understanding. I initially blamed myself for what happened but realize it was almost entrapment. I don’t think homelanders will ever fully understand the dilemmas we face. And @mjh, I agree that American society is harsher in its assessment of people’s intrinsic value; it seems based much more on an external status such as looks, job or wealth. How one consumes. It’s less patient with those who don’t quite fit the box; it’s much easier to be accused of being a bum or ‘kook’. It’s also a more brutally capitalistic society that holds failure in contempt.
@monalisa1776
I can accept failure when I made an error that ends in a bad result, because the one good thing about failure is that it’s a learning experience that is important for life. I don’t think anyone can learn what success truly means without first experiencing failure.
However, I refuse to accept being a scapegoat based on other people’s idiocy. But with that being said, if you’re a nobody, and you take that stance, they’ll just beat you down until you break, unless, or until, you accept the notion that no matter what you do, you’ll never win.
You can keep your nose clean, and do the right thing, but it’s not enough. You have to roll over and take it as well. Otherwise, you’ll never fit in. (unless you’re special, of course)
Once I do relinquish, I’m only going to tell my mother, and I will tell her in full detail as to why, but not until after I do it. That way, she’ll have to accept that the decision I’ve made is irreversible, sooner or later. I’m not going to be confrontational, and I’m not going to blame her, or try to make her feel like she did anything wrong. As for the rest of my family, I don’t feel that I should explain anything to them. Indeed, some of them don’t really hold me in high regard anyway so who cares what they think? But, there could be others that may understand, and maybe I’ll tell them as well.
But as for the homelanders? They can call me a traitor all they want. If being patriotic to them is all about being kicked in the nuts and saying, ‘Thank you sir, may I have another?’ then I’d rather be a happy little turncoat, instead. It also feels nice to linger with other such turncoats here at Issac Brock, and know that we’re actually the normal ones. 😉
“If this be treason, then let’s make the most of it!” – Patrick Henry
@patrick, It’s so ironic, isn’t it.
Why would you trade one tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 tyrants less than one mile away?
– Mather Byles
“Colonial leaders such as James Otis claimed that Parliament had no right to tax the colonies, since the colonists were not represented in Parliament. As Otis exclaimed, “Taxation without representation in tyranny!” British finance minister, George Grenville, disagreed. The colonists were subjects of Britain, he said, and enjoyed the protection of its laws. For that reason, they were subject to taxation.”
http://www.1776americandream.com/html/patriotView.php?id=273
This article got posted here:
http://www.expatinfodesk.com/news/2013/02/19/increasing-numbers-of-us-expats-renounce-citizenship-after-latest-tax-hikes
I touched it up with a simple comment:
Excellent comment, @Swiss!