A Swedish citizen sent this to me via e-mail:
Here is a actual exchange between a dual citizen and the Swedish parliament. It should definitely show where Sweden is going and gives an indication of how OECD members are officially thinking.
FROM SWEDISH CITIZEN TO (50+ recipents) IN SWEDISH PARLIAMENT (RIKSDAGEN)
Swedish banks are lobbying Sweden to allow USA to demand private data from Swedish banks—-For Swedish banks to spend billions of dollars to satisfy US legal demands upon banks and Sweden.
This law will report the most private financial details of Swedish Citizens, living in Sweden, who unfortunately were born in USA, whose parent is AMerican, or who still has an active US green card.
Sweden is going over to USA during the next few weeks to sign an agreement that breaks all Swedish laws. The agreement is not Bilateral—it gives Sweden nothing—zilch-null
It works like this:
Here is a radio clip about what is happening to Canada Citizens.
The same is happening to Swedish Citizens. Sweden has been talking to the bank lobby–who wants to have the Swedish government break discrimination laws, rather than the banks. Sweden has been talking to USA, who wants to have USA laws enacted in Sweden. Sweden has not had a single discussion with the Swedish citizens who are affected by these actions. Will you help change that?
Are you concerned enough to protect Sweden from foreign government intrusion?
Call me and have a detailed discussion about how to protect Swedish citizens living in Sweden from the laws of foreign countries being enforced inside Sweden.
If you act next week, it will be too late.
FROM POLITISK SEKRETARARE OF A CONTROLLING PARTY TO SWEDISH CITIZEN
We appreciate your concern. However, we do not entirely agree with your reasoning and its implications.
As a state, Sweden expects similar compliance and cooperation from other states. In fact we have an agreement with US in place since the 1980:ies covering a few of the same issues for Swedish citizens (but not with so massive information exchange).
Likewise we are in the process of negotiating or have negotiated similar treaties with several nations or independent territories for the last decade, in an effort to ensure that Swedish citizens that should pay taxes according to Swedish law, do so even when some of their resources are placed in oversea banks.
So how could we reject another nation that makes basically the same claim? We can’t.
There are of course concerns that must be met. Among them are the fact that due consideration must be paid to the integrity of those involved.
But bilateral treaties between nations, is probably the best method to safeguard these concerns. The state is responsible for upholding the laws of the nation. Bank’s aren’t. The state is a much more suitable counterpart in bilateral negotiations, than individual enterprises.
We might have objections to certain particularities in the negotiated treaty (in much the same way that we have had on the SWIFT-treaty, negotiated by the European Union), but we accept the legtimacy of the US position and the necessity of a settlement that will work without undue pressure on the individual banks.
olitisk sekreterare
Folkpartiets riksdagskansli
FROM SWEDISH CITIZEN TO POLITISK SEKRETARARE
Thank you much for your response.
Please understand that the USA is asking for personal information from one nationality. This is discrimination. The information is private. The people whose information is being sent, have”the burden of proof reversed”, ie “guilty til proven innocent.”
The law effects Swedes that do not know that they are “US persons”.
The US treatment of these persons is to punish them for US laws for which they have known nothing about. The punishments range from $10,000 to $100,000 per account per year, retroactive 6-8 years.
Please note that the USA Intergovernmental agreement says basically: we will do the best we can”.
However, the agreement is not a treaty.
The agreement is not authorized by the US law HR2847
A recent House bill (Posey agreement) was passed in the House which specifically will not allow US banks to collect this.
Sweden is forced to spend billions of kronor, however there is NOT a bilateral Exchange.
All in all, I personally have been doing my absolute best to file taxes, whereas this information assumes that I am guilty of the act of being a US person.
I urge you to have further and deeper discussions with the people affected by this—-some of the people to be reported cannot even speak English.
FROM POLITISK SEKRETARARE OF A CONTROLLING PARTY TO SWEDISH CITIZEN
Well, first of all – it is by definition not discimination, if there is a valid legal reason to single out an individual. That an individual owns property, financial instruments or otherwise is obligated to file tax-statements, pay taxes et.c. is certainly a valid legal ground. Nationality (citizenship), permanent right of recidence and so forth are clear markes of that.
Yes, some people may not know this. That is another problem. Generally speaking, a person – even if not the citizen of a country where one does buisness – is obligated to find out what rules apply. Of course it is prudent and wise for a state to seek to spread that information to those concerned. But a lack of knowledge is not, in itself, a valid argument why people should be able to get out of their obligations.
Now, while we generally accept that the US is a democratic society, under the rule of law et.c. these bilateral treaties (I think it is a treaty according to Swedish nomenclature – at least the negotiations have status as treaty-negotiations so far, but the result maybe “downgraded” to a lesser form of agreement) are a means to somewhat abrogate demands that do not conform to a least common denominator, law-wise. I.e. a content that is valid under both jurisdictions.
I do not yet know what the result will be – if there remain discrepansies that is unacceptable for us, we will most likely raise objections. But it isn’t very likely.
The exchange of information about an individual between his or her bank and a representative authority of the state (revenue-service or the like) is enshrined in Swedish law. We have accepted that as the most favourable option, because what we gain in judicial “precision” (i.e. avoiding wrongful lawsuits, taxation error and so forth), compensate for the infringement of individual integrity.
FROM SWEDISH CITIZEN TO POLITISK SEKRETARARE
Thank you for your definitive answer. It looks like the decision has been made and going forth, without ever having fully discussed the effects upon the human beings affected.
Of the 40 US persons I have talked to, zero (ZERO) have known about the requirements to file these papers. About 5 of them haven’t ever really lived in USA. One of them is a financial executive of one of Swedens World-known Corporations. He should have been filing reports of that Corporations bank accounts to the IRS—-against his confidentiality agreement, against the laws of the Swedish borse, and against the laws of Sweden (reference the last portion of the FBAR (Foreign Bank Account Reporting) form. All of these people have Children who have the same problems.
There is no amnesty program in the USA which allows these persons to come into compliance, without real threats of bankrupting fines. The COSTs for accountants and defense lawyers is beyond the means of most Swedish residents.
So, we can conclude that a decision has been taken in Sweden and USA, knowing fully that nearly all of the Swedish Citizens affected will be bankrupted by the USA.
I request confirmation that you and then Sweden fully understand those consequences.
FROM POLITISK SEKRETARARE OF A CONTROLLING PARTY TO SWEDISH CITIZEN
I have given you an answer as to the considerations that we have, in general, concerning this issue. You might not like it, I can respect that. But this is not a discussion of those issues anymore. Now you are extending a plea for individual cases. Folkpartiet cannot change US tax laws, and that is not the issue.
It is always deplorable if individuals are hit hard by new laws or new practice. But the case here, is not about the legality of certain tax claims, but about the exchange of information about tax claims that have an established validity.
FROM SWEDISH CITIZEN TO POLITISK SEKRETARARE
I assume your mandate speaks for all of the Swedish govt, and take it as such.
Yes, 40 of 40 individual cases will end up horribly for Swedish Citizens and residents, living in Sweden, governed by Swedish laws.
And Swedish laws have been decided to be changed, so that Another country’s laws can be applied effectively inside Sweden upon Swedish citizens.
This differs from the way that Eritrean sovereign law was approached, when similar cases arose (only the type of harassment differed, the law applied was similar).
I guess it may have been a mistake to go on Friday. Things like that get lost over the weekend. If so, we’ll have to see what next step can be found.
WOW! Look at this, from the Social Democrats, dated 11 Feb>
50- emails and 30 Cold calls results in the minority block questioning the majority_finance minister
http://www.riksdagen.se/sv/Dokument-Lagar/Fragor-och-anmalningar/Fragor-for-skriftliga-svar/Fatca-och-riksdagen_H011307/
Feb. 11
question
2012/13: 307 FATCA and Parliament
by Leif Jakobsson (S)
for Finance Anders Borg (M)
FATCA is a U.S. law that requires financial institutions worldwide to provide data – equivalent to Swedish control – if U.S. assets to the IRS. Acquis will apply from 1 January 2013 but begin not apply until 1 January 2014.
We are thus dealing with a law of a foreign power which is considerably intervention in Swedish conditions – a law as if it was mutual for all states certainly would have great benefits for combating fraud and financial crime, but which in this case is designed to promote U.S. interests and may be imposed other states, because the U.S. is the superpower it is.
FATCA is a framework that purportedly adopted in the U.S. on 18 March 2010. The question is why the government has not informed parliament closer to the subject, which in principle is of great importance because it intervenes in both Sweden’s sovereignty and the way we look at the privacy of living in Sweden. Foreign power imposing the penalty shot Swedish companies to disclose certain information that seem to apply to its citizens who are permanent residents in Sweden. The agreement must be reasonably addressed parliament and government is a minority government with a draft agreement can be folded without broader parliamentary support. Parliament should also have an interest in privacy aspect.
In light of the facts and circumstances, the Finance Minister has not taken the initiative to an early and broad information about FATCA to parliament so that the matter could be analyzed and anchored through such hearings in committees, etc.?
WOW! A letter from the Social Democrats to EU minister from the majority block
http://www.riksdagen.se/sv/Dokument-Lagar/Fragor-och-anmalningar/Fragor-for-skriftliga-svar/Fatca-och-EU_H011306/
Feb. 11
question
2012/13: 306 FATCA and the EU
by Leif Jakobsson (S)
the Minister Birgitta Ohlsson (FP)
Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) is a U.S. law that requires financial institutions worldwide to provide data – equivalent to Swedish control – if U.S. assets to the IRS. Under the agreement, a comprehensive framework that will cost money to the financial institutions and require new administrative procedures. Acquis adopted in the U.S. in spring 2010 and will apply from 1 January 2013 but begin not apply until 1 January 2014. In February 2012 made a joint statement, called a joint statement, the U.S., France, Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK on an intergovernmental agreement to implement FATCA. This solution is based on mutual reporting, which means that these five countries will have similar information about their citizens’ assets in the United States. Income and corporate taxes are indeed national affairs, but FATCA affects the people living in the EU, as well as companies and nations relations with a foreign power. The question is then why not European Union ensured that a joint agreement negotiated between the U.S. and the EU to all member countries. There must be a considerable disadvantage for the small EU member states like Sweden to negotiate separately with the United States while the larger EU Member States together in terms of getting a contract. The agreement also raises questions about privacy.
Has the Government and Sweden has taken any initiative to FATCA would be handled by the EU and thus give all Member States the same rights and obligations?
WOW! Another letter to the finance minister!
Feb. 11
question
2012/13: 308 Swedish negotiations on FATCA
by Leif Jakobsson (S)
for Finance Anders Borg (M)
Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) is a U.S. law that requires financial institutions worldwide to provide data – equivalent to Swedish control – on U.S. assets (so-called U.S. accounts) to the IRS. Anyone who agrees with the IRS called PFFI. This concept includes Swedish banks, fund management companies, venture capital firms and insurance companies, brokers and investment banks. FATCA is a comprehensive framework that will cost money to the financial institutions and require new administrative procedures. Acquis will apply from 1 January 2013 but begin not apply until 1 January 2014.
There is a common statement (joint statement) by the U.S., France, Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK on an intergovernmental agreement to implement FATCA. Denmark has also made an agreement with the U.S. on FATCA. We are thus dealing with a law of a foreign power which is considerably intervention in Swedish conditions – a law as if it was mutual for all states certainly would have great benefits for combating fraud and financial crime, but which in this case is designed to promote U.S. interests and may be imposed other states, because the U.S. is the superpower it is. Another question is why the U.S. is not through the UN, OECD or other international body rather than trying to create a global, multilateral regulation of Fatcamodell.
With the starting points and the time perspective of an agreement negotiated Finance Minister and Sweden with the USA regarding FATCA?
I call Leif Jakobsson, thinking that the letters above had been written a year ago. He stated he is awaiting an answer.
Secret negotiations done without discussion in the riksdag
He has a fantastic Swedish Southern accent.
@Swedish Citizen, thank you for continuing to give updates. Even those of us who do not know the Swedish political context can relate to the points raised. Good to know what is happening outside of the countries we are familiar with. Hopefully we can all point to what is happening elsewhere when communicating with our respective home governments.
Good luck.
@Swedish Citizen…
Excellent work. Should give all of us hope, that the efforts of one person, committed to the effort, can make a difference. Now, let’s see if he gets any answers to good questions he raises. 🙂
http://sweden.usembassy.gov/consulate/acs6.html
We are pleased to announce that the IRS Tax Attaché will be at the U.S. Embassy in Stockholm March 19-20 to provide general tax information and to meet with U.S. taxpayers on a one-on-one basis. If you would like to schedule an individual appointment with the tax attaché, please send an e-mail, including your preferred date, to stkacsinfo@state.gov with the subject line “IRS visit”. Appointment preferences will be granted in the order in which they are received.
New Information for Overseas Filers!
Reporting Foreign Bank Accounts
The public may be unaware of their obligation to report their foreign bank accounts to the Department of the Treasury. Recent news events have highlighted foreign bank accounts reporting. While there are many legitimate reasons to own foreign financial accounts, there are also responsibilities that go along with owning such accounts. Foreign account owners may have to report thier accounts to the government, even if the accounts do not generate any taxable income. The link below provides information for filing a Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Account, Form TD F 90-22.1, which is better known as the FBAR form.
For more information regarding reporting foreign bank accounts, please visit the IRS website.
If anyone has “not that Lisa” Connections, I am guessing she lives in Stockholm area and might be interested to see what kind of koolaid is served up in Sweden.
This should be a real Winner for the Swedish ambassador. Besides his famous daddy, he is an anti-corruption lawyer, which must be incredibly critical when working between USA and Sweden.
http://sweden.usembassy.gov/ambassador.html
Wonder if it is the same attache that went to the Norway meeting? If so, I am not sure I would be wanting a private meeting.
They supply them out of the London office, and there are only 5 of them there.
Getting on the no fly list could change one’s life forever.
Curiousity killed the cat.
This one will take Place inside the compound. It’s sovereign, maybe they could just taser you there on the spot.
Dear Sir/Madam,
We have received your e-mail request for an appointment with the IRS Attaché.
The IRS Attache Visit will take place at the U.S. Embassy Stockholm. In order to facilitate your entry to the embassy, we need your full name (as appears in your passport) and your date of birth. If a spouse or partner will also attend, we need their name and date of birth information as well. Once the scheduled has been finalized, you will receive a follow-up e-mail with specific information and details. We will prioritize appointment requests in the order in which they were received.
American Citizen Services
Embassy of the United States of America
Dag Hammarskjölds Väg 31
SE-115 89 Stockholm
Sweden
Email: stkacsinfo@state.gov
Telephone discussion with the international leader of the Swedish Democrats tomorrow (the independent party which swings votes). Same with the Green Party international leader next week. Left messages with the left paty, no callbacks.
And why would they need this information?
..”in order to facilitate your entry to the embassy, we need your full name (as appears in your passport) and your date of birth. If a spouse or partner will also attend, we need their name and date of birth information as well”….
And if the spouse/partner is not a US citizen? They are not then allowed to enter the embassy?
What kind of country has the US become, that to merely receive information, and ask questions about a tax obligation requires the showing and recording of a passport and the collection of names and birthdates?
Do all those INSIDE the US provide that information and a passport in order to ask a question of a US IRS office?
Proving once again that the IRS and Treasury are more interested in enforcement than ‘education’.
The embassies are all locked down. If you want to get inside, you stand in a line, check in your mobile phones, flashlights, cameras, and all such belongings in a tray. You can’t get the tray back until you leave.
I haven’t seen the Stockholm embassy, but others look like a jail from the outside.
Well, I talked to another person who is the leader of his party for international relations, and he knows nothing about the IGA nor claims responsibility for it.
@Swedish Citizen
“If you want to get inside, you stand in a line, check in your mobile phones, flashlights, cameras, and all such belongings in a tray. You can’t get the tray back until you leave.”
That’s very accommodating compared to the US consulate in Frankfurt. Here you cannot have any of what you mentioned either, and they will not even allow you to deposit such items with them. You will simply be turned away if you show up with any such things. There’s a little kiosk about a half mile down the road which will look after your personal belongings for a fee.
And I talked to the Green party person top-responsible for taxes, same area as Leif Jakobsson, and he knows nothing about the IGA being signed.
I used to joke about the cloke & dagger method of getting a transit visa through East Germany—but I don’t joke about that anymore
HELLO CANADA,
THE PRESIDENT OF THE GREEN PARTY RETURNED MY EMAIL, and cc’d all 3 of his own people and the 3 Swedish Contacts I gave:
——————————————————————–
Thank you very much for this contact. This sounds like a very interesting area of cooperation possible amongst our Green Parties. I have copied XXXXXXX, Chair of our International Committee and we will have a more detailed response in the near future.
Sincerely,
President,
Green Party of Canada
(letter)
Green Party of Sweden & Canada, together, fighting for citizen rights?
There are 7 million people in the world who are looking for leaders. The Canada Green Party is leading against the FATCA intrusion upon 1 million sovereign Canadian citizens and residents. Leif Jakobsson of the left block of Sweden (S) is just beginning to understand how important the future of 30,000 + of his citizens could be affected by USA FATCA laws.
Could the Green Parties take a simple telephone chat between each other, to compare notes, about how this important issue could be addressed? Billions of dollars in each country are at stake, and millions of lives of normal, law-abiding citizens are at stake.
Sweden is close to a decision which could affect 30,000 Swedes in Sweden and near 100,000 Swedes in USA, and the Green Parties have not yet had a chance to understand what is happening.
…Could you take that small step to call each other and chat? The contacts are below.
Good work, Swedish Citizen! Thanks for getting the Green Party ball rolling and lets hope it eventually helps to flatten the FATCA.
try it in your country: French? UK? Switz?
http://www.riksdagen.se/sv/Dokument-Lagar/Fragor-och-anmalningar/Svar-pa-skriftliga-fragor/Fatca-och-riksdagen_H012307/
The answer from Anders Borg (Finance Minister, appointed by the Majority block, Moderaterna leading) to Leif Jakobsson (Social Democrats, minority block)
March 1
Answers to questions
2012/13: 306 FATCA and the EU
2012/13: 307 FATCA and Parliament
2012/13: 308 Swedish negotiations on FATCA
Finance Minister Anders Borg
2012/13: 308 by Leif Jakobsson (S) Swedish negotiations on FATCA
Leif Jakobsson have asked me in the light of the facts and circumstances, I have not taken the initiative to an early and broad information about FATCA to parliament so that the matter could be analyzed and anchored by example hearing in committee mm.
Leif Jakobsson also asks me what I’m starting points and Sweden is negotiating with the U.S. about FATCA and with what time frame for a deal.
Leif Jakobsson also asks EU minister if she and Sweden taken any initiative to FATCA would be handled by the EU and thus give all Member States equal obligations and rights.
The division of responsibilities within the government is so divided that it is I who should respond even on the latter issue.
FATCA is a U.S. law that requires financial institutions worldwide to report assets and income on accounts held by taxpayers in the United States. The legislation is severely criticized because it is a unilateral regulations affecting claims against financial institutions outside the United States to report to the tax authorities in the United States.
As an alternative to the U.S. legislation, Germany, France, Britain, Italy and Spain, together with the United States drafted a model agreement for mutual inter-state information sharing. Model agreement means that financial institutions in the country reports to the tax authorities in their own country and fiscal authorities then exchange information. It is with this model agreement as a starting point as Sweden’s negotiations with the United States taking place. For Sweden, this includes that the U.S. tax authorities should also provide information to the Tax Agency Swedish personal income in the United States. Comments on how the contract should be drawn up has been obtained from the Swedish Financial Institutions and Tax. A first Swedish draft agreement was sent to the U.S.. How long negotiations will take is currently difficult to pinpoint.
The agreements thus far published (eg between the U.S. and the UK, Denmark and Ireland) assumes all of the mentioned model agreement and provides for more favorable terms in other contracts, unless the contracts are otherwise equal, should also apply to those countries. U.S. has expressed willingness to include such provisions also in all future agreements. EU Member States’ rights and obligations with the reason of the agreement based on the model agreement can thus be expected to be very similar. Annex 2 to the model agreement, however, contains country specific exemptions for payees, financial institutions and financial products. In light of this, the government has not considered it necessary to deal with FATCA common in the EU.
It is certainty that as far as possible to reduce the opportunities for tax evasion that occurs for example through international transactions. As part of this effort is an ongoing continuous work in the Ministry of Finance, including providing for the exchange of information in tax treaties and information exchange agreements. Sweden has also been a driving force in the EU in the work of the new directive on the taxation of savings income and administrative cooperation in the field of taxation. Sweden is also active in the OECD and other forums for an expanded and streamlined information exchange. Combating international tax avoidance and evasion by including that, as is now the question, conclude intergovernmental agreements on mutual information is thus consistent with the policies of Sweden long pursued in this area.