This post is from the RenounceUScitizenship blog.
The following comment appeared at the MapleSandbox blog last week:
Citizenship and terrorism is making news both in Canada and US right now.
UNITED STATES:
In the questioning of Obama’s nomination for CIA Director, Senator Dianne Feinstein referred to a man killed in a drone attack as a “so-called” American citizen.
She and CIA nominee John Brennan had this exchange:
FEINSTEIN: See, that’s the problem. When people hear “American,” they think someone who’s upstanding. And this man was not upstanding by a long shot.
BRENNAN: Yes.
FEINSTEIN: And maybe you cannot discuss it here, but I’ve read enough to know that he was a real problem.
“When people hear American, they think someone who’s upstanding?” Really?
When I hear American Senators or members of Congress, I think financial terrorists. I have never once thought of them, Shulman, et. al. as “upstanding.” (Many apologies to Steven Mopsick who insists those folks in Washington are moral, intelligent and highly educated).
If only they would consider us “so-called” Americans instead of trying to reclaim us as “US persons.” We are simply “upstanding” people who choose to live our honest, law-abiding tax-paying lives away from United States.
CANADA:
Instead of killing Canadian citizens who have been involved with terrorist activities, Canada is taking a different but still controversial approach. If the person is a naturalized Canadian citizen, Canadian Citizenship and Immigration Minister is proposing to revoke citizenship.
CBC National Affairs reporter Chris Hal says this is a “slippery slope.”
In this piece, Mr. Hall raises some of the same points we have raised relating to FATCA: This “would create two tiers of citizenship and so provide greater protection to people born in this country than those who choose to come here and become citizen.”
(Exactly what we have been saying about FATCA!)
“As well, opponents argue that the two-tier approach violates Section 15 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which guarantees that every Canadian is entitled to equal treatment under the law.”
(Ditto, what we have been saying!)
Mr. Hall reports that Peter Showler, a law professor at University of Ottawa says: Citizenship conveys the same rights and obligations on everyone in a nation.
(Threepeat what we have been saying)
“Canadian citizenship is precious. If a person is a naturalized Canadian, it means they can count on being Canadian,” he says.
BINGO!
Although both the American issue and the Canadian one revolve around terrorism, they are relevant to our situation. Can a government like US force citizenship on someone? Do Canadians citizens born in US have equal rights under the law or do we have a two-tiered system?
Mr. Showler is “Director of Refugee Forum, located at the Human Rights Research and Education Centre, University of Ottawa. The Refugee Forum undertakes various research and law reform initiatives dealing with refugee law. Peter teaches Immigration and Refugee Law and Advanced Refugee law.”
http://www.commonlaw.uottawa.ca/en/peter-showler.html
Although he is primarily involved with immigration and refugee law, it might be useful to contact Mr. Showler to see if he would be interested in the FATCA issue as a potential two-tier citizenship issue. If he is not able or interested, perhaps he could refer us to someone else at the Human Rights Research and Education.
Does anyone have any other knowledge of Mr. Schowler or the Centre?
Those interested in the modern day version of “McCarthyism” might find the following discussions to be of interest:
Canada – Stripping People of their citizenship:
Watching Canadian Dual citizenship and the concerns over terrorism cbc.ca/player/AudioMo…
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) February 11, 2013
United States – Sending drones to kill U.S. Citizens Abroad:
Creating a court to decide which #americansaroad can be droned assumes the gov can drone US citizens – Stop this now! nytimes.com/2013/02/09/wor…
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) February 10, 2013
Simon Black (Sovereign Man) Points out that more people are killed by drownings EACH YEAR than have CUMULATIVELY been killed by BOTH terrorism and mass shootings since 9-10-2001.
Shouldn’t there be established a Department of Bathtub Security?
I never thought I would have nostalgia for the Cold War, when all we had to worry about was Mutually Assured Destruction between the US and the Soviets. Even McCarthyism, bad as it was, was fairly focused. Now with the never ending War On Terror, we have supposedly democratic governments seeking potential enemies of all kinds everywhere, especially among their own citizens, and inventing ways to punish them (us) before they (we) even do anything.
It’s almost exactly the kind of control that George Orwell envisioned. In the process of seeking enemies, governments are creating more enemies, thus keeping the War on Terror going. How great for the National Defense, Homeland Security, weapons and prison industries, which will ultimately bankrupt everyone else!
Meanwhile the public is kept entertained with professional sports shows, awards shows, “reality” shows, and movies that support the idea that problems can only be solved by violent “good guys”. And our elected representatives “drone” on and on and on …
Excellent observation, AnonAnon. I agree.
@Anon, and Calgary, there is a reason the Romans diverted the masses with gladiatorial contests and circuses.
“”Plays, farces, spectacles, gladiators, strange beasts, medals, pictures, and other such opiates, these were for ancient peoples the bait toward slavery, the price of their liberty, the instruments of tyranny. By these practices and enticements the ancient dictators so successfully lulled their subjects under the yoke, that the stupefied peoples, fascinated by the pastimes and vain pleasures flashed before their eyes, learned subservience…”
Etienne de La Boétie
Discourse on Voluntary Servitude
1548
as reproduced at http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/content/rome-bread-and-circuses-quotes
@AnonAnon
I’ve been thinking nostalgic towards the Cold War for the past several years now. This ‘War on Terror’ makes me think of this Orwellian phrase far too much….
”Oceania is at war with Eastasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.”
Meanwhile, we may as well keep the proles entertained with Reality TV bullshit so that they won’t get wise enough to see their freedoms go away in the process. (not that they would really care to notice, anyway)
It still saddens me even now to see the USA just destroy its own democratic institutions with this ‘perpetual war’ against the so-called terrorists. They’ve done to themselves so thoroughly what Al-Qaeda could only dare to dream, that when they finally bagged Osama bin Laden, no one celebrated at all. I was still living in the States at the time, and just after that happened, I was heading back from Canada, and all I wanted to do was express some pride of us getting the bad guy. You’d think that someone would care enough to express anything one way or another, in relation to such an event. Alas, that was not the case at all. Instead, I felt like the odd man out. I don’t fucking get it! How in the hell is that kind of reaction even normal in a society?
A couple of months after that, I was heading back to Canada to visit my wife, as I still hadn’t landed at that time, and I was stopped at the US side of the border. The officer there took one look at me and accused me point blank of trying to smuggle drugs out of the country, and before I even got a word out edgewise, he placed his hand on his holster, and asked me in an aggressive tone if I had ‘anything to say about it’. What else was I going to do? Get my ass kicked and arrested for speaking up? So I said nothing while he pulled everything out of my bag, and went through it all. It was one thing to be searched, but it was a whole other deal entirely to be treated with such a lack of dignity, and indeed, with such total contempt, just for crossing the damned border! All I wanted to do was visit my wife! I wasn’t trying to resist anyone! Why even threaten me, let alone place your hand on your gun? I remember after I was ‘free to go’, where I was looking at my passport, and I was just shaking. But right after that, I was angry! It felt as though being an American in my own country meant nothing, and that I was essentially guilty until proven innocent. Frankly, I was quite relieved once I was in Canada, and I didn’t ever want to go back. It took me a long time for my wife to really understand the gravity of what I had went through just to see her.
But, it’s just another reason why I want to be rid of the damned US passport. Just dealing with the stupid 1040 form last week was enough for me to seriously consider not bothering with it at all. However, I want to be able to cleanly exit from the infernal citizenship based IRS tax system once I become Canadian. It’s also my hope to be able to continue visiting family over there once I cease being a ‘US person’, and that will be difficult to do if there is any lingering IRS issues, provided I can even stomach the idea of visiting the US in the first place. Essentially, I want my life back, with as little drama as possible.
As for what Canada is doing, I can certainly appreciate the view of the government taking action against those gaining Canadian citizenship, just to abuse it by committing acts that are grossly inconsistent with the retention of said citizenship, such as joining militant groups that work to undermine Canada. However, if the government does such a thing, it either needs to be applied to all, or to none at all. Frankly, the only feasible way to revoke someone’s citizenship that I can see, is if the person in question has a second nationality, because at least that person won’t be rendered stateless. But then it poses a dilemma. What of those that commit such an act when they have no other citizenship? You can’t just make them stateless and then deport them! Do you then have one standard for the duals, and another for those with ‘full’ loyalty? How is that fair? Also, if citizenship is a voluntary act between one person and a state, and the individual can terminate said act, then shouldn’t the state have the same power? Tough questions to answer, for sure.
I don’t know. It’s not that I have an issue with dual citizenship. It’s just that the values of the two countries in which you pledge your allegiance to, better not conflict with each other. Otherwise, it will become YOUR problem, really fast! For example, even if I was Canadian right now, if I chose to retain US citizenship, buy a Cuban cigar, and then smoke it in Canada, I’m still breaking US law for violating the Cuban embargo, regardless of wherever in the world I bought that cigar! That would already be enough for me to ask the question: Do I renounce US citizenship to enjoy that cigar, or do I keep US citizenship, and stay away from that cigar? Even though I don’t smoke, I would likely renounce just to have the “right” to enjoy a damn good cigar! But maybe I’m also saying that I no longer believe that the Cuban embargo makes any sense in this day and age as it is one of the relics left over from the Cold War. You see, even the most mundane of decisions can have serious repercussions once politics get involved. Christ, you can be a foreigner in the USA talking about gun control, (Piers Morgan) and next thing you know, everybody wants to deport you! To Hell with the First Amendment! Matter of fact, to Hell with all the other amendments! We have to protect the Second! Speak out against the war in Iraq like the Dixie Chicks? Prepare to have your music career destroyed just for speaking out! And we all certainly know we get shit on just for living as an American abroad, and outside the greatest country in the world.
Scary and sad stuff, mjh49783. I hope you don’t have too long before you can get Canadian citizenship. Hang in there.
Here’s another recent 9 hour border interrogation … http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Vancouver+actor+handed+five+year+from+entering+after+nine/7945978/story.html
@mjh49783, better to take the long view, and patiently get yourself into the best possible situation to leave the US citizenship behind permanently (if that is what you want), and eventually to renounce, (or relinquish by intent) when you swear out Canadian citizenship than do something now that would make it vastly more complicated – like not doing your US filings or paying incorrectly or filing late or incomplete.
This situation is not getting any simpler, and though it may be hard to bear, take the long view. Don’t do anything rash.
It is a blessing in disguise to know what you now know (or are finding out) – and so you can plan for what you want to do – which many, who were completely taken by surprise cannot do. Many would have relinquished before if we’d known the true state of things. Be very careful to keep your banking in Canada simple. Learn all the FBAR and FATCA and 3520 and other forms and rules, so you know what kinds of things can jeopardize US citizens who leave the US – even when they are trying hard to ‘comply’. The stakes are way too high to make an accidental mistake.
It’s a crazy way to live, but for you, you’re already ‘compliant’, and the requisite years till citizenship will pass quickly. Stay scrupulously compliant until you swear the Canadian citizenship oath, and formally relinquish, and then you can be free.
Yeah, I’m counting the days now, though I have another year and eleven months left to go before I can apply for Canadian citizenship.
I guess I should be relieved that I don’t even have enough in assets to worry about FBARs. Then again, there’s no point in having as much as a TFSA account unless I want to worry about the 3520 forms as well, or even have a joint account with my wife without having her get entangled into FATCA.
But needless to say, I’m sure as hell not going to have her get an ITIN, and declare all of her income, just to file joint! Fuck that! Why should the US get a piece of her CPP disability pension? Or even to know that at all?