ZURICH, SWITZERLAND – Ed. note: William Olenick has been active in Republicans Abroad in Switzerland, where he is a longtime resident. He sent the following email letter to friends 28 January; we reprint it in full as part of our coverage of the ongoing problems for US citizens in Switzerland.“Dear all,
Read the article below my comments and you will see why I also have my problems with the banks and I am tax compliant.
For the last 25 years I have been busting open nitch markets for American products, contributing to lowering the trade deficit, developing new markets for US producers, creating employment for my brethren back home, increasing the tax base where they live.
The only way to do this is to be on the ground in the countries you are selling.
In my case, my markets were Europe, North Africa and the Middle East so it made sense to set up a base of operations in Switzerland, as it was close to the markets, was a well run country, my wife happened to be Swiss, from a large, close-knit family, so it was a no brainer.
Two months ago my bank informed me that I could no longer make wire transfers to the states.
That being the case how will I pay my suppliers?
More
I’m reposting this from the FATCA question thread as it may put some additional wind in some sails:
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, or better yet, the chickens are coming home to roost:
Americans Surprised that FATCA Impacts Domestic Financial Account Holders
Individually, Americans have largely ignored the impact that FATCA has on foreign countries. Many Americans think the foreigners have it coming. Besides, they don’t think it has anything to do with them.
Wrong.
That one-way thinking is going to change. Some countries are thinking that what is good for the goose should be good for the gander.
FATCA reciprocal agreements, depending on the terms of agreement, will require the IRS to enforce against American financial institutions the same horrific reporting system that other countries are required to employ against their own financial institutions to report to the United States.
Americans are about to find out for themselves the horror of being subject to the tax information-reporting regime they thought was only going to happen in foreign countries to Americans with foreign accounts.
http://www.moneynews.com/Kleinfeld/FATCA-financial-accounts-reporting/2013/01/29/id/487821
Homelanders are about to cry foul.
Sadly the American mister will resonate more with Americans than his Swiss missus because all they will see in that article (if they read it) will be — blah, blah, blah — oh look, that guy really LOVES America, ahhhh — blah, blah, blah. However, if there is a chance that someone, somewhere in the USA will also spot the hidden FATCA in that article and act on a modicum of curiosity then they might just wake up to the harm it is causing to American outlanders AND homelanders. One can dream, can’t one? I wish both Mr. and Mrs. Olenick well but I can’t help thinking of that poor Swiss missus destined for a US kryptonite card trap.
When they relocate to Vermont, then the Swiss citizen wife will become a US person as far as Swiss banks are concerned. There have been numerous reports of Swiss banks closing down accounts of Swiss citizens resident in the US, both with dual nationality or Swiss only citizenship. US persons, which includes those who are foreign citizens, are pretty much persona non-grata with Swiss banks as a result of FATCA, are they not?
Mark Twain:
Hey, if he wants to go back, why should I stand in his way? Matter of fact, if he wants to join the homelander envy specialists over there, and refer to us as a bunch of disloyal tax dodgers, just because he’s got misplaced anger towards his government, then that’s his issue.
And you know what? Yeah, I am pissed! I’m pissed off because he’s got a good life where he’s at, and he’s thinking about pissing it all away just to move back into the domain of his abuser. Frankly, it would be to his benefit to think real hard about the decisions that he has to make, and maybe he’ll realize that he’s closer to home than he realizes, that he doesn’t have to accept being a victim in this, and that he has full control of his own destiny. Otherwise, what would be the point in advocating for the man? Seriously, does anyone here really think if if he went back, and then wrote his grievances to any one of his congressional representatives, that any one of them will even give a shit? Let’s face it. If any of those crooks in government really gave a damn about the plight of the people they’re supposed to represent, then how many of us would’ve really left the USA for a better life in the first place?
And that is the point I’m making here, Mark. We’re all here from different walks of life, but the same issue that we all have in common is that we’re sick and tired of being victimized by our own fucking government, simply because we chose to find a better life for ourselves abroad! Meanwhile, I get that William Olenick is upset over what he has to face. We all get it. However, it all ultimately boils down to a simple question: Will he choose to be a victim? Or will he do something about it for the betterment of his family, and for the betterment of himself? If he chooses to be a victim, and decides to run back home, then that’s his problem. Otherwise, if he stands up to his bully, he’ll at least have us in his corner.
bubblebustin:
That was an interesting link that you’ve shared, yet there’s a pretty big part of me that wants to yell out, “Let them cry foul! Serves them right!”
I guess I really am that bitter, but where were the homelanders when the spectre of FATCA has been imposed upon us?
*@bubblebustin, you ask where were the homelanders when the spetre of FATCA was being imposed. The fact is was, at the last minute, tracked on the Hire Act as the supposed source of the funds to pay for the HIRE Act. There was absolutely no discussion nor were there any hearings, before HIRE was voted on an passed by an overwhelming majority.
What a ttravesty of justice! Its proponents, all of which believe that any American who lives outside of the United States is a tax-evading traitor, were absolutely delighted that this legislation was enacted witout there ever have been any hearing that might have disclosed its destructive consequences. They could have cared less about the welfare of US citizens living outside of the US. Their minds were all made up. They did not want any facts revealed that might have prevented it from being enacted.
Outside of the walls of the Senate, nobody knew anything about it until it had already been passed and made ready for the President’s signature.
@Roger, re …..”passed and made ready for the President’s signature.”
As someone who lived at one time outside the US, and had a parent who married two non-US persons, and has a non-US brother-in-law (Canadian), you would think that Obama would agree that his mother did not move to live outside the US for tax reasons. She moved for work, and marriage, and because she must have enjoyed life outside the US. As do we. To live in Indonesia, she would have had to bank – and possibly did not file FBARs – since it was an obscure form until more recently. If Obama searches his heart and brain, he will have to acknowledge that his own mother was almost a permanent expat, after decades abroad, most probably with ‘foreign’ accounts, and she only returned to the US (Hawaii) from Indonesia because of the illness that led to her eventual death. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham
I find it so very hypocritical that Obama signed the HIRE act, and is empowering the FBAR and FATCA persecution of ALL of those who live and bank outside the US. I doubt he’d agree that his mother should be treated by the US, Treasury and IRS, as a tax evader, or at risk of being a criminal money laundering drug lord terror funder, so why should the rest of us living outside the US be presumed so? Does he think that his own mother would have needed the punitive and persecutory oversight of FATCA?
So, if his mother had not filed FBARs for all those years, (which we can’t know, but he very well might), would he advise her to join OVDI? Would he approve of the sale of her principle residence in Indonesia being subjected to double US taxation after she’d been abroad for all those years? Should his mother have been threatened with FBAR penalties? She only returned due to serious and unforeseen circumstances.
So, what does he think about those of us abroad, and duals, and toxic ‘foreign’ bank accounts when he reflects on his own family?
Would Obama agree that today, his mother, as a US citizen living and working ‘abroad’, should be treated the same as wealthy US homelanders with accounts in the Caymans – as if their ‘foreign’ banking situations were exactly one and the same?
I’d like to challenge a Democrat to answer truthfully whether they would have advised Obama’s mother to enter OVDI IF she had not filed her FBARs and 3520s, and FATCA form?
Roger Conklin
That’s right! Just like a lot of other shit that the US Congress shovels around for its subjects to digest, they were not going to let any one know about the HIRE Act, until it was too late to have a debate, and they can get away with it, too. That’s because the homelanders can’t be bothered to deal with the democratic process to do anything meaningful, and Congress knows it. All the freedom that the homelanders care about is the freedom to have a beer and watch TV after getting home from work, and maybe play with one of their guns, as that is the God Given right that they like to blabber about the most. That and bitch about taxes and the price of gas! Bleccch!
Frankly, if they had the collective intelligence to take a good look at their situation, the self respect to really stand up for themselves, and the will to put down the fork for one damn minute, they might actually get pissed off enough to march on Washington DC with torches and pitchforks, and burn that sucker down! They like to talk about the Second Amendment as though it’s some check against a tyrannical government. Well here it is! They’re under a tyrannical government right now! And what are they doing? Whining about how they’re running out of Twinkies!
I’m beginning to think that the only real Americans left are the ones that can see the system for what it truly is, recognize that there is no meaningful reform possible, and got the hell out while they could!
@badger
Great points! Thanks for connecting the dots, yet again. Obama’s thoughts, however, don’t amount to a hill of beans because it’s clear by now the if he is aware of the persecution of his fellow citizens (and surely he must be), he’s willing to ignore it.
@mjh49783
If this guy Olenick is feigning indignation for expats everywhere and is being insincere about how he feels about being forced back to the US, where by the sounds of it he may actually be looking forward to, then I find his efforts in “helping” us to be patronizing and can potentially do more harm than good by confirming to many homelanders that the only recourse for someone in his position is to return home. This is patently false. Even if he is being sincere it feeds into the belief that so many homelanders have, that one should never leave the US permanently! Now I’m pissed too!
@mjh49783
Eat Twinkies and pray that it will all get better. I’ve got nothing against prayer, but it alone (and Twinkies) won’t solve anything. Torches and pitchforks? I hope that’s a metaphor for something more effective. However, burning down the White House is soooo….yesterday. 🙂
@bubblebustin
Actually, I think Twinkies are flavourless and disgusting. You may disagree, and that’s okay. Food politics is really not my forté, anyway. 😉
Whether it’s a metaphor, or a direct course of action for the homelanders to take, I’m quite certain that it won’t happen for the foreseeable future. Matter of fact, I would imagine that such a movement would be brutally suppressed, and with the sheep cheering on. Hell, they were pepper spraying, and beating the shit out of the Occupy Wall Street protesters at one point, and the public was supporting the beatings! Now, I didn’t really care for the movement myself. Maybe it was because they just sat in tents, made nuisances of themselves, and had no coherent message. Still, I just thought that they at least had a right to be heard, and once the point was made, they could’ve been peaceably disbanded until they gathered up a stronger message. No, once people started cheering for the beatings, I knew it was a harbinger of things to come over there. By that point, I had already landed in Canada, so I was already in a pretty good place.
Ahh, yes. Burning down the White House. Well, I think once that proverbial house of cards falls down over there, the homelanders might very well do it themselves. I think the crooks in power would have to gut that carcass clean to the bone, to where more than half the people there are starving, and have nothing more to lose! Actually, I’m more concerned as to how we could be affected by it, being next door to the problem. We might have to push the hordes back ourselves!
….and to change the subject….
Indeed. I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one smelling a rat on the Olenick story, and perhaps I was even being cynical about it. It just sounds so strange, almost like the woman with zero self esteem, whom gets her ass beaten on a regular basis by her live-in abuser, but yet she stays because she ‘loves’ him, even though all her friends are telling her to get out before he kills her. Meanwhile, you can’t be weak minded like that, and yet at the same time, operate a business for God knows how many years. It makes no sense at all, and if it makes no sense, I get really suspicious. But maybe I just watch too much Law and Order? I really want to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but I’m finding it hard to do!
*Roger Conklin, any Swiss citizen who lives in the US for more than 183 days will become a “US person” and risk that their Swiss bank account will be closed. This was printed in the press on the 25th of January:
A friend working for one company informed me that Swiss citizens who wish to work for a Swiss firm in the US will work under a US contract. This means that they can be laid off in Switzerland with a 2 weeks notice and will may only get 2 weeks of compensation pay. Swiss citizens who do not work in the US will have a Swiss contract with a 1-6 month notice and a 1 year pay compensation when laid off.
@ swisspinoy
I think I am detecting a somewhat passive aggressive game plan by Switzerland. I think it is saying to the USA, “You treated our banks like dirt so now with a gracious Swiss smile on our faces we’re going to treat your citizens like dirt — until you see the error in your FATCA FATWA ways.” Does that sound plausible to you?
*bubblebustin, I would guess that if Olenick moves to the US or not, that such would occur depending upon if Americans abroad take action or not. Currently, most Americans living abroad are sleeping. They aren’t doing jack other than complaining and mumbling. If Olenick moves to the US, then it really their fault because they allowed FATCA to happen by not protesting it. I’d say that we all should become more active, not for ourselves but for others who are still Americans, like Olenick.
I was thinking that I could burn one American flag per day and post it on YouTube until FATCA was repealed, to make noise and get people’s attention, but such could risk causing stateside Americans to become more hostile towards Americans abroad and could thus backfire to cause more damage than good.
*Em, it’s a risk precaution. The US is threatening and suing Swiss banks and in return Swiss banks are exploring the balance between still making money in the lucrative US market and having nothing to do with the US for their protection and safety.
I was thinking about calling him again in the evening yesterday to discuss what can be done, but I didn’t because you guys don’t have a game plan and I don’t want to waste his time. Besides, I’m not a US citizen and my offspring will either renounce US citizenship or move to the US when the time comes, so why should I care?
mjh49783 –
I’m beginning to think that the only real Americans left are the ones that can see the system for what it truly is, recognize that there is no meaningful reform possible, and got the hell out while they could!
Renouncing U.S. citizenship seemed like the most American thing I could do in the circumstances.
I wouldn’t do it– move back to the US. After all, the US was the one who put us all into this terrible situation in the first place. I’m no psychologist, but it sounds a little bit like Stockholm syndrome to me.
Where I live, the country is only concerned about tax revenue. It’s actually very one-sided since we see little money that gets invested locally. But at least there is none of the US-style micro-management of citizens.
@mjh49783 as to your January 30, 2013 at 9:23 pm
If Olenick goes back (as Roger did) then I hope at least he will remain vocal about the predicament of US persons abroad (as Roger has). If he just forgets about the whole issue as water under the bridge then he would actually be doing us a disservice. If he does indeed go back, I would hope that he would register to vote as soon as possible and hammer Vermont’s congresscritters with letters and phone calls. It would be great if he would participate at IBS, Maple, ACA as well.
@roger I posted a mention of Olenick’s situation on http://world.time.com/2013/01/31/mister-taxman-why-some-americans-working-abroad-are-ditching-their-citizenships/ (IBS thread http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/01/31/mister-taxman-why-some-americans-working-abroad-are-ditching-their-citizenships/)
I mentionned briefly your story about leaving Brazil in one of my comments to the Time article. I only mentionned you as “RC”. Would you be willing to post some comments about the details of your story there at Time? I did not want to take the liberty of cutting and pasting text from the comments you already made about that here at IBS.
I also mentionned your story at Mopsick’s today, including your name, as most at Mopsick seem to come from IBS or Maple and Steven already knows your story from his time at IBS. I just thought it would not be very good to put too many details on Time and that it would be better for you to write a tailored comment there since the audience is potentially very huge. I can’t thank you enough for continuing to comment as you do. Your insight and reflections have always been very important.
Here is the thread at Mopsick http://mopsicktaxlaw.blogspot.ch/2013/01/living-with-fatca-uncertainty-what.html?showComment=1359636836053#c5072571957403773926
@swisspinoy
You must be joking, right? We need to have a game plan?
It’s Olenick’s life. If anyone should have a game plan, it’s him! It is incumbent upon him to make the decisions concerning his life, and to face the consequences of those decisions. We’re not going to come in from the night as though someone flipped on the bat signal, and perform a ‘rescue operation’, perhaps even against his will, just because you think we should ‘do something’. He can either save himself, or he can choose to go back.
Meanwhile, I’ve made everyone here aware of my opinion on this matter, and I see no point at all in trying to offer a word of support for anyone that chooses to return to the US after being subjected to that level of bureaucratic abuse, just because he is too afraid to stand up for himself.
@geeez
Yes, it sounds pretty much like Stockholm syndrome to me, too. However, it can happen to just about anyone who closes their mind to the hard facts of life, and just swallows the party line without question, be it Democrat, or Republican. They just hold on to the propaganda no matter how many times they get knocked around. There’s no help for people like that, unless and until they take off the damn blinders, and learn to deal with the truth.
Frankly, I would not be surprised if most people over there in the USA are afflicted with the same ‘condition’, and we all know the power of propaganda first hand when the homelanders can label us all a bunch of disloyal tax cheats without even bothering to apply any critical thought to what those thieving crooks in Washington are saying. How much in taxes did Eduardo Saverin pay before he renounced? How much in exit taxes did he pay just to renounce? Do that sound like the act of a tax cheater? So, when that parasite senator Chuck Schumer went all apeshit with his self righteous indignation and labeled Eduardo a tax cheater, how many mindless robot homelanders started parroting the same shit as that guy? Yeah. We’re talking about the same bunch of idiots that were all war hawk like when Dubya was all cockswaggering about wanting to invade Iraq, even though the premise for such a war was complete and total bullshit. Oh, but must never say anything against, or even question our dear leader, err, I meant president, because after all, we’re in a war here! Yeah. What a crock!
But that’s just the thing. They don’t think, although they like to pretend to. Instead, they’re programmed to say what is acceptable to say by one of the two parties that have all the cash, while those that really run the show are gutting the country from behind the scenes.
@Jefferson D. Tomas
If he does go back, and tries to explain his plight to Congress with a bunch of letters and phone calls, I’m 100% convinced they’re just going to blow him off with form letters.
@mjh49783 I agree with what you said about Saverin. He had the resources to do things according to the rules, he tried to do so, then got slammed by attempts to pass an ex-patriot act back last summer. The only way to fight back against propaganda-fuelled retaliations like that is to respond to the propaganda and reveal it for what it is, which is what we are trying to do through IBS, Maple, and other forums.
As to Olenick being blown off with form letters, he should have an easier time of it actually living in a US state. He could attend local party meetings, and buttonhole the congresscritters in person if they blow him off.
I think for people who want the US to end citizenship-based taxation, Mr. Olenick is a valuable ally in that war, fighting on a different front, and with a message that would resonate with persons inside the US.
Personally, I don’t care what the US does with its laws. (I’m opposed to US
law becoming law in my country.) But if I were interested in getting the US to end citizenship-based taxation, I’d see Mr. Olenick as a positive addition to the battle.
In any event, I’m not going to dump on the guy for his choice. I’m sick of the press dumping on renouncers for their choice. We’re all victims.
@pacifica777 we are all victims, I agree.