It appears to me that our strongest card — besides the 1,000,000 of us in Canada — is the support of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association. It is a wonderful organization — recall the fine work done on the G20 in Toronto. I suggest we all join and support its ongoing work — especially in regards to us! http://ccla.org/
and I just joined!
Thanks for the post and the suggestion for us to join, Joe Smith. I have just done so too. It just never occurred to me, but I agree that it is very important for our support to them and for what Abby Deshman has already provided at the December 15th FATCA Forum.
CCLA to USA: “Stop Persecuting Canadians unlucky enough to be born in America!”
I’m going to make a donation but defer on actual membership for now. I’m grateful that the CCLA has taken an interest in FATCA as a human rights issue. The term second class citizen gets so overused these days but US citizens/persons in Canada are being treated unfairly and that doesn’t exactly jibe with the words “equality and justice for all”.
CARP is also a very strong advocate on this issue. It is worth joining also. They regularly submit position papers and lobby for their members issues. The Hansard record shows that they sometimes appear before Parliamentary committees. They wrote to Flaherty re US extraterritorial taxation in Canada and posted his response on their website http://www.carp.ca/2012/06/15/minister-flaherty-canada-continues-to-press-for-fair-tax-deal-with-united-states/ . They (and CCLA) acknowledged e-mails even when MPs have not. They are following this issue. CARP advocates on financial issues, and is very active in pressing the Federal government http://www.carp.ca/category/advocacy/your-finances/
At CARP they have media, legal and advocacy expertise. Ex. “Susan Eng is Vice President for Advocacy at CARP, the national,
non-partisan, non-profit organization committed to advocating for social
change that will bring financial security, equitable access to health
care and freedom from discrimination for all Canadians as we age.” …….
…..”In 2012, Susan was named one of the The Hill Times’ Top 100 Lobbyists.”
FATCA and US extraterritorial taxation will hit seniors very hard, because they will be selling their principal residence to downsize, or to fund retirement and longterm care. They will be at the end of their saving life, and liquidating those savings. They will need to hold or have others hold Powers of Attorney – opening up even more reporting obligations and complexities. They will have fewer options to offset US tax assessed – because they won’t have paid tax on wages or earnings after retiring.
Consider joining CARP and writing them – pointing out why their member constituency is a sector particularly effected.
Thanks, Badger, for highlighting CARP’s lobbying efforts once again. Good contact for those of us entering or in retirement.
I previously joined CARP as well.
BBC: HSBC bank begins ex-pat personal account closures
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-guernsey-21118684
@All I joined CCLA several weeks ago for just these reasons. I did so with the conviction that I broadly agree with their entire agenda, not just part of it. And without the intention of trying to boost my particular issue relative to their priorities.
@Badger As a retiree, albeit an younger one, I share your sense that retired persons are particularly at risk. However, let’s not forget the implications for younger people. I have a friend whose son is a 30 year old born in Canada to a mother who was (and according to the US still is) a US citizen. He doesn’t have assets to speak of, however the implication for him is that every dollar that is painfully saved and set aside for the future — for the down payment on a home, for instance — is at risk. The likliest outcome of the current situation, as I see it, is a future of great uncertainty if only because the rules can be changed at any time. You may think you are ok now, but that can change whenever the IRS decides. Again, no disagreement with you. Retired persons, and those close to retirement, seem to be most aware of this issue, but they are not alone in the risk and uncertainty they face.
@NorthernShrike, and all,
To clarify, just issued a reminder re membership and correspondence with CARP because I respect their work on other issues, and because of their core purpose and constituency – and how it overlaps with one end of the continuum effected by the US Treasury and IRS assault on Canadian citizens and residents. Seniors also have a higher voting rate – and so are courted more by politicians. CARP has already indicated their interest in this matter, and are seasoned advocates, so we should support them. Not in any way urging that we only concentrate on the impact for those who are retired, or about to be, just noting that by then, the family’s affairs have already countless years of financial complexity and assets that leaves them very vulnerable to extortionate IRS penalty calculations – via FBARs, FATCA for individuals, and the other usual confiscatory tools – 3520/As, and probably sale of a home, etc. – too late to undo.
Am painfully and personally aware of the impact of all of this on children, and young adults as well – it is particularly egregious and unjust that like many of us, they have had no say in inheriting the burden from a parent, or just being born in the US during a brief or accidental stay – like the “border babies”. Just haven’t identified any particular advocacy group whose mandate specifically advocates for them that we can appeal to. Perhaps that is an angle for us to work on. As Prof Williams and others have said, “what about the children?“. As we know, we cannot renounce for the minors in our family, but we can try to lay out the options and what we see as risks for the future, and assist young adults who have too income, and hopefully too little amassed to fall afoul of FBARs yet, help them to keep their affairs simple for now, and to understand what renouncing/relinquishing entails. As an example featured in earlier IBS threads, and also the excellent blog posts here http://recalcitrantdotme.wordpress.com/2012/04/20/the-negative-implications-of-u-s-citizenship-on-those-starting-out-in-life/ http://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/2012/08/21/letter-of-a-canadian-businessman-to-his-dual-u-s-canada-citizen-son-on-the-occasion-of-his-high-school-graduation/ http://recalcitrantdotme.wordpress.com/2012/04/19/my-thoughts-on-u-s-citizenship-for-young-people/
I found it difficult to convey the gravity of this situation to a young adult, and to convince them of the urgency to maintain simplicity of financial affairs, or rectify their status now rather than later. Before marrying, and before having their own children. This was the case even though they saw the effects in people they knew well. Even though politically active on other issues, this one did not seem to resonate. They agreed it was unjust and unfair, but just shrugged at the suggestion that now was the time to act and to plan for their future.
And, to be fair, it was difficult enough for me to fathom – particularly once I found out just how much complexity and entrapment has been deliberately constructed for us. It still seems surreal on a daily basis. If I didn’t have IBS and all the corroboration and documentation gathered by all of us, I would still be wondering if I was suffering from paranoid delusions of persecution. As is the first reaction of those I attempt to enlighten and forewarn.
When that CARP bandwagon rolled through Brock many months ago, I jumped on. Not at all happy to find myself swelling the population in what seems to be a playpen ruled by Moses Znaimer. Slick and ick! Markety markety!
I agree, usx canada. The Zoomer marketing phenomena is offensive to me.
@usxcanada I looked at the CARP website some months ago and found that I disagreed with a number of their positions, so decided not to join. I did however join Canadians for Tax Fairness. I do agree with their broad agenda; my complaint with them relative to FATCA is that they have ignored its impact and its unfairness. I should get more active in discussions with them.
Persons at risk due to FATCA and other US initiatives are going to represent a broad range of interests, values, and experience. There are quite a lot of organisations that might see the value of involvement. The Canadian Medical Association has taken a stand, so why not Canadian Association of University Teachers as well? Easily 5 to 10 percent of Canadian university faculty are “US persons”. (I am not a member of CAUT, but used to be associated with their world.)
My opinion
Everyone will decide for themselves where to comfortably or strategically find allies to work with, and those have been few.
For those who feel comfortable with membership and CARP positions and priorities, there is evidence of actual substance and efficacy in their advocacy – ex. presentations before Parliament (independent of the Zoomer marketing wrapper) :
http://www.carp.ca/tag/hansard/
http://www.carp.ca/2011/11/18/carp-october-31st-presentation-to-the-finance-committee/
I admired Susan Eng’s past work on the Toronto Police Commission
http://www.carp.ca/about-carp/bios/susan-eng/
Email send to Jim Turk, Executive Director of CAUT.
turk@caut.ca
http://www.caut.ca/pages.asp?page=148
Jim Turk is Executive Director of the Canadian Association of University Teachers. Prior to his work at CAUT, Jim was an Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Toronto, specializing in Canadian Studies, and was Director of the Labour Studies Program at University College. Jim has also been Director of Education for the Ontario Federation of Labour. He is a member of the Executive and of the Board of Directors of the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives; a member of Advisory Board of the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education/U of T; and a former chair of the Ontario Coalition for Social Justice. Jim received his Ph.D. at the University of Toronto, his M.A. from the University of California at Berkeley and his B.A. from Harvard University. He was a Knox Fellow at Cambridge University. His most recent book is an edited collection, The Corporate Campus: Commercialization and the Dangers to Canada’s Colleges and Universities.
*The situation at Canadians for Tax Fairness is complex because two of the key people at the organization Neil Brooks and Linda McQuaig support FATCA. I also heard from someone that Naomi Klein gave a strong endorsement of Brooks and McQuaig’s book where both of them strongly endorse FATCA.
*Brooks and McQuaig
These usually very nice people appear BLIND to our concerns.
I personally know Dennis Howlett, the Director. I will email him.
Canadians for Tax Fairness
Dennis Howlett
Executive Director
office@taxfairness.ca
Dennis, we have a bad situation with the US’s IRS going after 1,000,000 Canadians who have nothing to do with the USA. In fact most left because of its latent unfairness yet now are bring gone after by the IRS with the complicity of the big banks.
Can you help?
(sadly, Neil Brooks and Linda McQuaig are kind of useless on FATCA when it comes to “US Persons.”)
Thanks,
Tim – I just tracked down the Naomi Klein puff at McQuaig’s promo site.
“A devastating expose of the real-world impact of extreme wealth
concentration from two of our most rigorous, knowledgeable and humorous
chroniclers of corporate excess. An indispensable read for this
political moment.”
– Naomi Klein, author, The Shock Doctrine
The Brock tweet squad should swarm all over this linkage. Almost certainly a US person [parents are Vietnam-era refugees Michael and Bonnie], Naomi should know better.
*The problem is they have two versions of their book which are COMPLETELY different despite having the same title. One is Canadian One is American. There is no mention of FATCA in the Canadian versions. There is mention and support in the American version. One must surmise as Bubblebustin previously did that there reasons for writing two separate versions were personal and financial in nature.
*The Canadian vesion is called the Trouble with Billionaires while the American version is called the Billionaries Ball.
*Brooks does know about the FATCA Forum in Toronto because I know someone sent him a link and got an acknowledgement back.
Yes, he knows but argues that we are the bathwater and if we are appeased the baby (FATCA) will be thrown out as well which he opposes.
The EXPAT Games – FATCA Fire Scene
HOW BAD IS IT? I just spoke to this fellow… see below.
—————————————————————————–
Jim passed your inquiry on to me. The quick answer is that CAUT does not have a position or policy on FATCA. As you know, the legislation is primarily intended to crack down on wealthy tax evaders by requiring financial institutions to report on specified foreign assets (accounts, stocks, etc.) of U.S. citizens above a certain amount. Certain individuals holding offshore assets above a specified threshold are required to file a special form with the IRS. For those with US citizenship who live outside the United States, the threshold above which you must file with the IRS ranges between $200,000 to $600,000 depending upon whether you file a US tax return jointly or alone. According to information I have seen, if you do not have to file a US income tax return for the tax year, you do not need to register under FATCA even if the value of assets you have is higher than the threshold.
In most cases, I don’t think US citizens teaching in Canadian universities would be covered by FATCA requirements since most if not all of their income would be Canadian-sourced and subject to Canadian tax.
I hope this is helpful.
Best,
David Robinson
Associate Executive Director
Directeur general associé
Canadian Association of University Teachers
Association canadienne des professeures et professeurs d’université
2705 Queensview Drive
Ottawa, ON
Canada K2B 8K2
Tel/Tél: +1.613.820.2270 x. 188
Fax/Téléc: +1.613.820.7244
Cell/Mobile: +1.613.282.2451
http://www.caut.ca
http://www.facebook.com/CAUT.ACPPU
twitter: @CAUT_ACPPU