It appears to me that our strongest card — besides the 1,000,000 of us in Canada — is the support of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association. It is a wonderful organization — recall the fine work done on the G20 in Toronto. I suggest we all join and support its ongoing work — especially in regards to us! http://ccla.org/
We are screwed.
They’re all confusing the FATCA form reporting requirement from the $50K bank account threshold above which banks are supposed to rat out people to the IRS.
Am I mistaken here?
@ Joe Smith
The disinformation in that reply is pathetic considering this is a university teachers’ association. I fear for the students in our country now too. đ Would it be worth a try to write back and try to dispel the disinfo?
*”According to information I have seen, if you do not have to file a US income tax return for the tax year, you do not need to register under FATCA even if the value of assets you have is higher than the threshold.”
Dear David:
ALL “US PERSONS” HAVE TO FILE A RETURN REGARDLESS OF THEIR INCOME AND WHERE IT COMES FROM. THEY ALSO HAVE TO LIST ALL THEIR ASSETS EVERY YEAR UNDER THREAT OF VERY HIGH PENALTIES.
PLEASE MAKE SOME ATTEMPT TO EDUCATE YOURSELF, JIM AND CAUT.
Dear David:Thanks for speaking with me. Please take a look at this:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/01/21/royal-bank-of-canada-fatca-webpage/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/irs-tars-law-abiding-expats-with-same-brush-as-tax-cheats/article4199112/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/help-im-on-the-irs-hit-list/article627365/
Dear David:”According to information I have seen, if you do not have to file a US income tax return for the tax year, you do not need to register under FATCA even if the value of assets you have is higher than the threshold.”
FACTA is about banks turning over your records to the IRS if you have assets more than $50,000.
@ Joe Smith
Hey guys, where can I sign-up for FATCA – it sounds like fun! Can I collect points too?
BTW, I just realized from the address that these guys are just a few doors down the street from me. Weird and kind of scary.
Oh, I hope no one is listening to David. What an idiot. And this is why, as Joe puts it so well, we are screwed.
Let us be kind to David. He was very receptive to my arguments and is looking into this.
*@Joe Smith
“…..ALL âUS PERSONSâ HAVE TO FILE A RETURN REGARDLESS OF THEIR INCOME AND WHERE IT COMES FROM. …”
I’m not sure if that statement is 100% correct. As far as I’m aware you only have to file a return if your “world-wide” income is above a certain amount, I’m not sure how much but it is pretty low.
“… THEY ALSO HAVE TO LIST ALL THEIR ASSETS EVERY YEAR UNDER THREAT OF VERY HIGH PENALTIES. …”
Yes ,I believe this is true for FBAR if the total of the highest yearly balances is above 10k USD.
Not necessarily for the FATCA related form 8938. This form you only have to file if you are over the limit for filing a tax return, even if the total of the account balances are over the limit (e.g. 200K USD for a single filer not resident in the US).
This is how I understand the regulations. I just hope that I’m not wrong.
Perhaps Professor Maurice Williams at UBC could enlighten David Robinson.
There is discussion with Professor Williams here: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/04/22/obama-responds-to-ovdi-concerns-or-not/
And, he can be reached at maurice.williams@ubc.ca mailto:maurice.williams@ubc.ca
@ Calgary,
Maurice Williams, that’s an excellent suggestion! As a prof, I assume he’s a member of CAUT, and he’s a victim of this and I recall him as being very good at articulating the OVDI mess concisely in a couple of interviews. I’m sure he’s very aware of FATCA and I’d bet he would be happy to enlighten CAUT on it.
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p501/ar02.html#en_US_2012_publink1000270109
Who Must File
If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, whether you must file a federal income tax return depends on your gross income, your filing status, your age, and whether you are a dependent. For details, see Table 1 and Table 2. You also must file if one of the situations described in Table 3 applies. The filing requirements apply even if you owe no tax.
Table 1.2012 Filing Requirements Chart for Most Taxpayers
IF your filing status is…
AND at the end of 2012 you were…*
THEN file a return if your gross income was at least…**
single
under 65
$9,750
65 or older
$11,200
head of household
under 65
$12,500
65 or older
$13,950
married, filing jointly***
under 65 (both spouses)
$19,500
65 or older (one spouse)
$20,650
65 or older (both spouses)
$21,800
married, filing separately
any age
$3,800
qualifying widow(er) with dependent child
under 65
$15,700
65 or older
$16,850
* If you were born before January 2, 1948, you are considered to be 65 or older at the end of 2012.
**Gross income means all income you received in the form of money, goods, property, and services that is not exempt from tax, including any income from sources outside the United States or from the sale of your main home (even if you can exclude part or all of it). Do not include any social security benefits unless (a) you are married filing a separate return and you lived with your spouse at any time during 2012 or (b) one-half of your social security benefits plus your other gross income and any tax-exempt interest is more than $25,000 ($32,000 if married filing jointly). If (a) or (b) applies, see the Form 1040 instructions to figure the taxable part of social security benefits you must include in gross income. Gross income includes gains, but not losses, reported on Form 8949 or Schedule D. Gross income from a business means, for example, the amount on Schedule C, line 7, or Schedule F, line 9. But in figuring gross income, do not reduce your income by any losses, including any loss on Schedule C, line 7, or Schedule F, line 9.
*** If you did not live with your spouse at the end of 2012 (or on the date your spouse died) and your gross income was at least $3,800, you must file a return regardless of your age.
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/FAQs-Regarding-Report-of-Foreign-Bank-and-Financial-Accounts-(FBAR)—Filing-Requirements
Q. Who must file an FBAR?
A. Any United States person who has a financial interest in or signature authority or other authority over any financial account in a foreign country, if the aggregate value of these accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year. See also Notice 2010-23.
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Corporations/Do-I-need-to-file-Form-8938,-âStatement-of-Specified-Foreign-Financial-Assetsâ%3F
If you are a taxpayer living abroad you must file if:
â˘You are filing a return other than a joint return and the total value of your specified foreign assets is more than $200,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $300,000 at any time during the year; or
â˘You are filing a joint return and the value of your specified foreign asset is more than $400,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $600,000 at any time during the year.
Refer to the Form 8938 instructions for information on how to determine the total value of your specified foreign financial assets.
I forwarded the CAUT email to Williams.
@Joe Smith. Great.
Here’s more to review. For anyone who wants to revisit Renounce’s November 2011 post http://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/2011/11/13/expatriating-acts-the-status-of-your-u-s-citizenship/, including listening to the EXCELLENT CBC interview with Professor Williams and one other USPerson, ‘Bob’. (I’ve just listened to it again.)
Maybe CAUT could contact Prof. Arthur Cockfield http://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/queens-university-law-professor-discusses-irs-attack-on-u-s-citizens-in-canada/
and Prof. Allison Christians, http://taxpol.blogspot.ca/2013/01/why-fatca-is-tax-treaty-override.html http://www.mcgill.ca/law/about/profs/christians-allison
in order to understand the situation better.
and there are several other professors in Canada who have appeared in news articles about those affected by FATCA and by the IRS jihad in Canada. There are also those who organized those information sessions in the Maritimes – New Brunswick?
Because we had so many visiting professors back and forth across the Canada US border, and some from the Vietnam War days, CAUT must have significant numbers of members who’d understand the problem with FATCA and the IRS, but still might not know what is going on.
A bit coarse, as Bill Maher always is, but sometimes he gets the subject right on the liberties and rights of the Constitution that Americans seem to be letting slip away. This is probably not the most appropriate thread to post this, but couldn’t decide on which was better.
Notice that his progressive audience doesn’t find humor in his pointing out their hypocritical ways. W does it, they all complain. Obama does it, they say nothing…
BTW….I am not looking for a gun debate, as that is really beside the point in his New Rules…
So Canadians…
Where does Pierre Poilievre is a Member of Parliament for Nepean-Carleton stand on FATCA ??
http://www.pierremp.ca/budget/
https://twitter.com/FATCA_Fallout/status/293669543396655105
@Just Me
Sorry, I don’t understand what you are getting at. I am in PP’s riding and so far as I can see he is a straight party man without a personal position on anything. Am I missing something?
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@Northernshrike…
I listened to his speech on youtube about what is wrong with America, and how Canada does not want to follow it’s example. He had is narrative on the financial crisis that was not totally correct, but still a reasonable accounting of some of the factors that went into the meltdown. So, I naturally wondered what is his position on FATCA if he felt as strongly as he does. It would seem that he would naturally align against capitulation. Does he? That was my question.