69 thoughts on “Democrats Abroad are like The Stepford Wives”

1. At first glance they sound like masochists or kool-aid drinkers.  But I’m wondering quite seriously if the Dems Abroad are mildly disturbed by FATCA because it affects them personally, but they like it in principal as being a good thing (catch billionnaire tax cheats, spread American influence in the world, stuff like that)?  My last year in the US was 1970 — back then “spreading American influence in the world,” imperialism basically, would not have been a Democrat value, according to my memory of the times.  But that was then.   That aside, the Democrats Abroad being apparently okay with FATCA, which will harm millions of low- and middle-income people, some of whom actually are Democrats Abroad, seems quite illogical.  At any rate, my impression is some combination of masochist and kool-aid drinker.

2. When it comes down to it, anyone that supports the US Democrat party should just pack up and move back to the United States. Canadian citizens should be alarmed at the incursion of the US tax arm into sovereign Canadian banking. As a Canadian born, fully Canadian citizen with only barely minimal ties to the United States by marrying a US citizen (who after the bull-pucky that Obama is pulling; is planning on taking out Canadian citizenship to protect herself), I’m supremely pissed off!   US Democrats with their noses up Obama’s butt, should just pack up and leave, we already have enough “liberals” up here of the Canadian variety. We don’t need any more or Canada will find themselves in the economic quicksand that the US is in, very shortly.

3. As I wrote on the 

   Spotted at DNC Convention: Canadian MP Paul Dewarthread,
   

   “I’m feeling a little cranky today so decided to write a letter to Democrats Abroad and express my disappointment in their bobbl-heading support of President Obama:

   Dear Mr Ken Sherman, International Chair-Canada (New York):
   I recently had the pleasure of reading an article by Sasha Issenberg entitled “Dispatches from the Democratic National Convention”:http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_breakfast_table/features/2012/_2012_democratic_national_convention/the_democrats_abroad_delegation_believes_barack_obama_has_improved_america_s_reputation_overseas_.html#comments
   The article focuses on an interview with a few members of the Democrats Abroad delegation at the convention where these delegates, including yourself, expressed how Mr Obama’s presidency has improved the image of all Americans throughout the world and quotes you as saying “I am proud to carry my US passport again.” 
   Mr Sherman,  may I suggest that you enjoy this brief period in history, as I feel that the world will soon become aware of Obama policies that will again put the US in a bad light, namely FATCA. It is with regret that I voted for Obama in the last election, as he done more to hurt the lives of US persons abroad than any other president in the history of the United States. I too live in Canada, and when I speak to ‘regular’ Canadians and explain complex issues like citizenship based taxation, FBAR and OVDI I am first met with disbelief, then anger that a country such as the US would do this to its citizens. I urge you to be prepared that when FATCA, with its extraterritorial overreach and negative effects it will have on the Canadian economy comes to the attention of ALL Canadians, we will begin a new era of anti-Americanism in Canada. Obama will not have my vote unless he acknowledges and makes a real effort to undo the harm he has caused US persons abroad before the November elections. In the meantime I will make every effort I can to make other Americans aware of how Obama is working to make our lives a living hell.”

   Of course, I didn’t get a response from Mr Sherman, as many of us have experienced when dealing with Obama’s “yes men”:

   
   

4. Going to a party that Maya may attend tonight.  The last time we did this, I got into a polite argument that the Democrats Abroad were telling expats to “shut up” over the tax issues and support the party.  She thought that tax issues were really only a problem for the rich and people “who never intend to repatriate”.  When I applauded the Democrats’ proposal to kill FEIE, she got angry.  If the topic comes up tonight, I will simply repeat her party’s words: “Americans Abroad need to abandon the FEIE.  When they don’t pay their fair share, Americans on-shore have to pay more.”

   Most of the Geneva Dems Abroad work for NGO’s and pay not taxes to any government thanks to the FEIE. But then, they are quick to support a party that hammers their countrymen abroad who do get taxed locally.  When the FEIE goes, we’ll be staring at the same barrel of the same gun.  Egality…

5. I will confess to a very VERY strong resentment against Democrats Abroad (one I will indeed ‘fess up at my next Confession).  

   When I first got clued in to FATCA and went looking for ways to make a difference, there were several avenues I went down, Democrats Abroad being one.  I joined and immediately started asking “What can I do to fight this?”  Answer?  Don’t worry about it, we are taking care of it.  Wow, they really “took care of it” didn’t they?

   Their approach was (and I believe that other US expat orgs are guilty of the same damned thing) to work within the system and not to piss anyone off.  Well it became obvious right quick that the Dems Abroad’s first priority was to re-elect Obama and Americans Abroad were a lesser priority. bublebustin’s comment was right on the money.  Yes, basically we were being told to sit down, shut up and let the grownups in the room handle it.

   And that is how they lost me completely.  I wrote and asked to be removed as a member expressing my disappointment.  I am also now in the process of reconsidering my membership in other expat organizations.

   I find that I am getting more and more frustrated with these people.  This is not a goddamn diplomatic party at the Embassy.  I suspect (cannot know) that zuludogm is right and that the folks running the various expat orgs are not representative of most Americans Abroad today.  Of all the Americans I know in France (and I know a few believe me) almost all of them have ZERO interest in these organizations.  They just don’t resonate with most of us.  I joined to do something about FATCA and citizenship-based taxation.  Now I feel like I have wasted my time and my money.  Some days it feels like all those expats org are filled with a bunch of folks who talk a lot, write long and nearly unreadable essays (no esprit de synthese at all), and don’t listen very well.

   This is (or should be) a movement to get justice for US persons abroad and that means EVERYBODY with a US connection living abroad:  US citizens, former US citizens, Green Card holders, immigrants, accidental Americans etc. And I believe that to do that we need to be much less polite and a lot more aggressive.  I’m thinking we need a real diaspora organization that is a bit more into action and a lot less invested in being some sort of “gatekeeper” in Washington, D.C. sucking up to the US politicians.

   Yes, folks, I’m starting to think demonstrations and non-violent resistance.  That’s where I’m at right now.  I just don’t think we have anything to lose at this point because with all the “help’ we are getting right now we are clearly losing.  

6. Animal has the right idea.  Democrats Abroad should be deported back to the United States because it is a crime to support Barack Hussein Obama and his imperialistic policies.

7. Most likely, they (dems abroad) have the same reaction as any human would have: You live a in distant country, yet your birth country insists on knowing your banking activity. Nothing says “SLAVERY” more than that.

8. @Victoria

   I agree something else needs to be done, as clearly no one is listening. I keep hoping that the sheer insanity of the situation alone is weighty enough to cause a tipping point in public awareness if only knowledge of our plight were to reach the right people! Well, as in the case of Democrats Abroad, they are the right people, there is awareness of it, and they are deliberately ignoring us, or worse maybe even covering it up! A few people in Russia managed to get international media attention by protesting a Russian proposed ban on Americans adopting Russian children, why wouldn’t we with our list of grievances? Perhaps the next Fact Finding Forum should be taken to the streets with protest signs. Time to find more ways to pressure the USG to “quit” USP’s abroad (as Gandhi did with Britain in the “Quit India Movement”). 

9. I have an idea:  We should move our politicians to pass laws that say that Democrats Abroad must give up their lists of members, their email addresses and their residential addresses so that they can be deported back to the United States.  They may stay in their different countries if they first renounce the Democrat Party, in front of a government official for a fee of $450.  These new laws should be dubbed in aggregate:

   Foreign Acts To Criminalize Activity – of the Democrat Party = FATCA-DP

10. @bubblebustin, you are absolutely right.  In theory these are the people we should be talking to (and ACA and others) but it’s time to get real – what they are doing isn’t working.  And like you I question whether or not our plight is in fact high up on their list of priorities.  

    Let me be clear – I am sick of being soothed and asked to pay up, join up and write letters.  Have any of those things moved us one inch closer to resolution?  No.  So we would be INSANE to keep doing the same damn thing.  So what I ask is the next right thing here?  And it must be something a little more punchy than what we are doing now.

    And yes I think you’re idea of showing up with signs is a very good one. Radiotherapy is over for me tomorrow (hurrah!) and that means I am ready to get on a plane and join you if we can get a protest going.

11. I think everyone is missing the point that a lot people in Dems Abroad are likely to be typical US corporate expats. They get assigned somewhere abroad for 1-3 years, do their jobs, and move on to someplace else. Most of their assets are probably in the US anyway, and many of them don’t give any thought to “settling down” in their foreign jurisdiction. Don’t expect such people to share your concerns about Uncle Sam pilfering everyone’s assets. The biggest difference between them and us is that we have fully settled down in our country of choice, are here for the long haul with all the benefits and costs of being citizens of a foreign country, and resent the depredations of a distant government.

    In my own experience abroad, I’ve noticed that corporate expats tend to eat and sleep abroad, but live in the US. The most important thing to them besides their jobs is maintaining ties to the US via networking. They often join US expat clubs, discuss sports and society in the US, and join political organizations such as Dems Abroad. Since they are pampered and taken care of by their companies, they could care less about our concerns. If anything, FATCA for them would only represent a short-term inconvenience, to be rectified by moving someplace else (either to a foreign country whose FATCA controls are not so strict yet, or back home).

12. “it is a crime to support Barack Hussein Obama and his imperialistic policies.”

    IMO, when Canada joins Nato in their military program in support of the DHS efforts to disarm US gunowners, being Canadian will be a crime.

13. Thank you, Wellington, for saying something that.  Yes, you are 100% right.  There are those of us who are “at home abroad” and others who are “just passing through.” 

    No value judgements here – people are free to do as they wish – but clearly we do not have the same experiences or interests and it is quite likely we will not see eye to eye on FATCA or citizenship-based taxation.  I agree with you- for them these things simply aren’t a big deal.

    This is why I think we need different organizations.  Those of us who are “at home abroad” need to start calling ourselves what we are – emigrants – and we need a real diaspora organization.  The short-timers can stick with the regular expatriate organizations that already exist.  My .02.

14. @All

    There is confusion about what Democrats Abroad is. The staring point it their site:

    http://www.democratsabroad.org

    It is the “overseas branch of the democratic party”. Democrats Abroad exists to further the interests of the party. To put it simply: The purpose of Democrats Abroad is NOT to help U.S. citizens abroad. The purpose is very specifically to implement and support the policy of the Democratic Party which is clearly to destroy U.S. citizens abroad. In the same way that the Obama administration is your enemy, Democrats Abroad is your enemy!

    Now that particular fact is neither here nor there (the people involved in Democrats Abroad are idiots), but it is worth understanding.

    So far the Democrats are winning the war and no mistake it is a war. But, the confusion is about what the war really is. At face value the war is about FATCA, but the “launching mechanism” of FATCA is citizenship-based taxation. Here is why:

    The United States of America under the leadership of Barack Obama and the rest of the Democrats have attacked the rest of the world through FATCA. What is FATCA in substance? FATCA is an attempt by the U.S. to use its economic power (and possibly military power – wait and see) to force other countries to “pay tribute” to the U.S. Once FATCA is accepted by a country, it has agreed to allow the U.S. to enter the country and extract the fruits of the labor of residents of that country. This is what PFIC penalties, FBAR fines and he rest really are. It is also what the Exit tax is.

    This is facilitated by the concept of citizenship-based (or US person) taxation. In other words, one the IRS defines an individual as a “US person”, it gives the US a license to enter the country and loot it.

    In other words: citizenship-based taxation is the enabler of FATCA. It is what makes FATCA effective. It is what gives it force and power. This is what the rest of the world does NOT understand and this is why the resistance has been so weak. Although the world should and must say no to FATCA, if a country must sign an IGA, the IGA must include a clause that says that “US persons” cannot be defined as lawful residents of countries outside the US. This is the only thing that will restrict FATCA to its stated purpose (homelanders cheating on their taxes). If a country agrees to FATCA then it must only agree to turn over the accounts of people who are NOT residents of that country. Otherwise, they have just given a license to the US to loot the country. Furthermore, any agreement must include a provision for those Canadians who are also US persons to renounce without payment of the Exit tax.

    Imagine this: “Form Nation” comes a knockin and says, we need to inspect the assets of US persons. Okay, we have found them and now we are going to confiscate those assets. Don’t you know that we – the USA – own U.S. persons? And they walk out with the life savings of Canadian citizens, savings that are “after tax” and were earned in Canada.

    This is what FATCA is really about. It is about giving the US getting a license to “loot the economies of other countries” and this is why the world must say NO.

    @Petros

    Right on. Members of Democrats Abroad who are not Canadian should be removed from Canada. They along with the Democratic Party in the Homeland are actively waging a war on Canada. But, the people of Canada and politicians need to wake up!

15. @Victoria, It seems to me that the only way to have any progress in this matter is to talk to congressmen or their assistants directly, not just writing general letters to their offices. ACA, I, Mark Twain and others have been doing that and Congress has finally shown signs of cooperation. You are from Seattle, right? Is your congressman Jim McDermott? He is in the Ways and Means Committee and seems to have some interest in the taxation of Americans abroad. I contacted his assistant Alan Lee by email and he said that he was already aware of the problems. Maybe you can send him an email too, Alan.Lee@mail.house.gov. He usually answers in a day or two. In addition, Dave Reichert, the congressman of the district adjacent to Seattle, is also in the Ways and Means Committee and seems to be against FATCA. I talked by phone with his assistant Zach Rudisill and he seemed sympathetic. His email is Zachary.Rudisill@mail.house.gov. He tends to take a few days to respond. Maybe these assistants will pay more attention to you since you are from that area.

    Congratulations on completing your radiotherapy. I hope you fully recover soon.

16. @Victoria

    Your idea of forming a separate organization to protest tax matters seems like a good one on the surface. After all, no other organization seems prepared or equipped to really handle this. 

    As a starting point though, it’s important to realize that everyone must do what’s right for themselves. If a deaf government insists on taxing those who receive no benefits in order to pay its bondholders, then the right thing to do is to renounce.

    Here in Switzerland, the closest thing I’ve seen to such an organization as you propose is American Citizens Abroad. They seem to have a lot of longer-term expats as members, and many of them understand and empathize with the plight of US persons. However, they are about more than just taxes.

    Such an organization as you propose would have a specific anti-tax platform. That seems to be what this organization/website is about (IBS). To turn it into an organization à la ACA, you would need dues-paying members (to send Petros to lobby Senator Schumer and other congresscritters, lol) and IBS might need to become something more like a think tank, churning out position papers, etc.

    One risk would be that such an organization might become seen as anti-tax and therefore anti-government, perhaps along the lines of Sovereign Citizens in the US. The US gov’t has a big freaking stick these days, and they can just label various groups as “terrorists” at will and pounce on them. Not saying this would happen; just a thought.

    Obviously the message and actions of such a group would need to be carefully presented.

17. @Victoria

    I agree with you on the need for a separate organization. But, it should NOT be an organization of “long term US citizens abroad”. It should be an organization designed to draw attention to, get support for and ultimately make “citizenship-based taxation” a violation of international law.

    As I said in my previous comment “citizenship-based taxation” is the enabler of what is:

    1.  An international human rights issue in relation to US persons: and 

    2. a US attack on other nations.

     For God’s sake, the US is the only country that does this. The world is smaller and smaller and people are more and more mobile. Members of the world community must agree to only exercise their taxing power over residents of the country and property in the country.

    An organization should be formed to make citizenship-based taxation public enemy number one. FATCA if explained properly to the world will make the world understand the immorality of this particularly nasty U.S. export and how the US uses it to “loot the economies” of other countries.

    Part of the purpose of the purpose of the organization would be to advance the study of what citizenship really means. It is NOT as the US thinks a property right in a person.

    In any case, I am offering a proposal that I believe makes sense. If you agree that this is the right way to go, then please join up. Perhaps even the Isaac Brock Society could be redefined or extended to do this. But, PLEASE, no more of these idiotic:

    Americans this and Americans that. The simply truth is as follows:

    No organization that focuses on “abused Americans” will be taken seriously. Here is why and the truth is painful. It’s because the Homeland has created so much anti-Americanism that the rest of the world is very happy when Americans are abused.

    The good news about FATCA is that has provided articulate and clever people the opportunity to frame the issue in a way that the rest of the world can see how the combined effect of citizenship-based taxation and FATCA has resulted in an attack on the rest of the world.

     Put it another way: FATCA is used properly could very well be the thing that ends citizenship-based taxation.

    Would be interested in your comments on this.

18. @Wellington

    Thanks for your thoughts on this – very interesting. A couple of responses:

    1. It is wrong to see a new organization (as I just proposed) as “anti-tax”. It is “pro-tax”. It is an organization that focuses on modern day reality. I.e. that countries cannot tax the residents of other countries on income earned in that country. This is about good “tax sense” and “tax rationality”.

    2. I have a great deal of respect for American Citizens Abroad. It is well intentioned organization and it is clearly full of good people with good intentions. In fact I have so much respect for it that I have decided that: If ACA with all their good work can’t influence the US government (and if they could they would have) then the US government can’t be influenced by Americans Abroad. But, hey the US views its citizens as the property of the government. Your dog does not influence your policy.

    3. Therefore, the group must be international with a purpose of engaging the rest of the world and governments other than the U.S. If the U.S. wants to participate there is nothing stopping them. But, no illusions about U.S. residents. Even members of the “Homelander Elite Core” have been so mentally disabled by notions of American exceptionalism that they can’t get their minds around any of this. Therefore, let them go.

    4. Since we let them go, forget about lobbying the U.S. The focus is on other countries – including an educational program teaching why the “best and brightest” of other nations should stay out of the U.S.

    5. Forget any discussion of “dues and money”. Waste of time. When it comes to activism, the importance of money is overrated. In fact, my best personal initiatives have been the ones that cost the least.

    6. Of course people should renounce US citizenship.That has nothing to do with the creation of an institute. Renunciants have an important role to play in the institute. In fact the single most important investment that a young person could make in their future would be to renounce US citizenship. Frankly, making the reasons for this clear should part of the core purpose of the organization. Hell, we could even run “American Citizenship Days” where Democrats Abroad could come and explain how lucky you are to be owned by the U.S.

19. @Shadow Raider

    Keep up the good work! I have simply decided the key to this is for the US to see that citizenship-based taxation and FATCA will hurt the country internationally.

    The US does NOT care about its citizens. Examples include:

    – highest incarceration rate in the world

    – sending young people to their death in Iraq and Afghanistan

    – abuse of U.S. citizens abroad

    Why do people believe the US cares about its citizens? Maybe you can tell me.

20. Bingo, Wellington. Yours is a very important distinction.

    For those who are long-term citizens of other countries, those not intending to ever go back to the US to live:

    …you may break those affected by FATCA down into three classes of Canadians (hats off to bubblebustin for pointing out the Third-Class):

    1) First-Class Canadians (or any other country citizens) (shouldn’t we all be such?)

    2) Second-Class Canadians (or any other country citizens) (Canadian citizens and permanent residents who are also US Persons, thereby losing their rights with FATCA)

    3) Third-Class Canadians (or any other country citizens) (FATCA in fact creates three classes of Canadians, the third being a class of Canadian citizen or permanent resident who are US persons but have no indicia of US personhood and thus are able to fly under the radar with impunity — unless turned in through a “Whistleblower” program. These will include “Accidental Americans” as my adult son who happens to have a developmental disability (born and raised in Canada, never registered with the US, never lived in or had any benefit from the US). The US Consulates in Canada advise that a Parent, Guardian or Trustee of such person or any other with a mental incapacity (such as dementia) does not have the RIGHT to renounce citizenship on behalf of that person they make other life, death, financial and legal decisions for, even with a court order, unless there is a “compelling reason” (like life or death, which of course there isn’t for those in Canada).

    Victoria, you are, again, my hero!

21. @USCitizenAbroad, You wrote that “the US” doesn’t care about “its citizens”. Aren’t these two things the same? What is a country, in fact, if not the people who live there and the things they have? Maybe you mean that people in the US don’t care about each other, and while I agree that some people are like that, I still believe most people are good and care about others. All of my friends to whom I mentioned the subject, from various political views, agreed that citizenship-based taxation is absurd. Maybe it’s just the older generation that still thinks the US is better than the rest of the world, but I think this idea will fade over time as the younger generation gets older.

22. @ Calgary

    The US Consulates in Canada advise that a Parent, Guardian or Trustee of such person or any other with a mental incapacity (such as dementia) does not have the RIGHT to renounce citizenship on behalf of that person they make other life, death, financial and legal decisions for, even with a court order, unless there is a “compelling reason” (like life or death, which of course there isn’t for those in Canada).

    Of all these very important matters, by allowing the person’s legal guardian to act on the person’s behalf on the other matters, but not allowing them to do so renouncing citizenship, the US indicates that it feels the most crucial of these matters is citizenship.  At the same time, the 21^st century US makes it clear that they believe the core value of the concept of citizenship is taxation. 

    It’s both a crass perversion of the concept of citizenship, and a really unfair, inhumane policy to persons who require a legal guardian, including those like your son who don’t even have (never had) any connection to the US. This is diametrically opposite to protecting the best interests of the person and smacks of exploitation.

23. @Shadow Raider

    First, I want to tell you how much I admire your efforts, relentless persistence and the work you have done on the issue of citizenship-based taxation. Keep it going.

    I would like to respond to your comment:

    “You wrote that “the US” doesn’t care about “its citizens”. Aren’t these two things the same? What is a country, in fact, if not the people who live there and the things they have? Maybe you mean that people in the US don’t care about each other, and while I agree that some people are like that, I still believe most people are good and care about others. All of my friends to whom I mentioned the subject, from various political views, agreed that citizenship-based taxation is absurd. Maybe it’s just the older generation that still thinks the US is better than the rest of the world, but I think this idea will fade over time as the younger generation gets older.”

    In a theoretical sense I would agree that the U.S. and its citizens should be the same. The problem is that they are not the same. From the perspective of the U.S., citizens are the property of the U.S. and they are to be used to further the policies of the U.S. government. (War, chess …)  Now there is a huge distinction between the people/citizens and the government. The government has been held hostage by a political process that has been  monopolized by the Democratic and Republican parties – which by the way, are just private clubs. To put it another way: everybody except the members of these two clubs has been excluded from the political process. Ask Ralph Nader how hard it is for an independent to run for president. Since the political process is controlled by one of those two private interests you can be sure that government policy will reflect the desires of those interests. For an easy read on this, read Jesse Ventura’s new book about Demogrips and Rebloodlicans – it’s a lot of common sense. To understand the magnitude of this problem, check out: independentvoting.org (go to their convention in February).

    The American people are fundamentally very good people. If it were really a “government of the people” then the country/government would care about its citizens. But its not a government of the people. It’s a government of private interests.

    What do I mean? You are rewriting the US tax code. How did it get to be 17,000 of BS? The answer is that the tax code consists of all kinds of things that are designed to give special favors to people (what Fareed Zakaria has referred to as corruption). Examples include:

    – Romney’s carried interests

    – PFIC rules which I believe were largely intended to benefit the domestic mutual fund industry

    – etc.

    If we look at the November election there is both good news and bad news:

    1. The bad news is that the Obama democrats were re-elected and they will continue their war of terror on U.S. persons abroad.

    2. The good news is that the Obama democrats were re-elected? Wasn’t this the bad new? Yes, it is. But, here is why the re-election of Obama may be a turning point in American history for the better:

    The Republicans lost because the Democrats won. The popular vote was relatively close but given the rules the Republicans appeared to lose dramatically and decisively. At the present time most people think the Republican party is history. I am inclined to agree – demographics have changed and the Republican Party is associated with a demographic that in the distinct minority.

    With the Republican Party gone, and the need to avoid a “one party state” (after all a two party state is only one party removed from a “one party state”) an alternative must arise. Given the disgust for partisan politics, I think the time has finally come where the independents will mobilize and put forth a strong candidate for president. If this happens, there will be one of two outcomes. Either:

    1. An independent will win the presidency; or

    2. The independent will run such a strong campaign that the notion of “independents” will become intrenched in the system.

    Either way, this will be a massive sea change in U.S. politics. As crazy as this may sound, I think there is a chance that Jesse Ventura will be the next president of the U.S. (You heard it here first).

    The rise of the independents will be because of the point that you make: “isn’t the country the same as the people?” It is not possible in a partisan system for the government to be the same as the people. Look at the fiscal cliff stuff right now. The U.S. citizens are simply “pawns in a game” played out by the Democrats and the Republicans. So, now, the U.S. (defined by the government and the current realities of private two party partisan politics) doesn’t care about its citizens. In theory they should care and the rise of the independent movement will reflect this.

    If you are still reading this, thanks for staying with me.

    The American people are good, but their government is not.

    Thanks for your help on these issues!

24. @Calgary411

    Thinking about it, would it be apt to call those who fly under the radar a 3rd class of Canadian, when in fact they benefit from everything a 1st Canadian does by virtue of the fact that they remain undetected? Perhaps instead they should be classified as a sub-set of the 2nd class, as they aren’t worse off than those in 2nd class other than the fact that they’ll spend the rest of their days being paranoid about being trapped or turned in by a whistle-blower. 

    @USCitizenAbroad

    “No organization that focuses on “abused Americans” will be taken seriously. Here is why and the truth is painful. It’s because the Homeland has created so much anti-Americanism that the rest of the world is very happy when Americans are abused.”

    I agree with you in the importance in having citizenship based taxation the main focus here, because we as contagions will surely be blamed by many for bringing this scourge called FATCA down on the countries where we live. Some will view this as a compliance issue and blame for that, however, I believe every family in Canada will be effected (or is that infected) with loved ones who are deemed US persons. As a result, many ‘regular’ Canadians will look more deeply into the policies behind it, namely citizenship based taxation and different from Canada’s.

25. @UScitizenabroad – Damn, damn, damn I like your idea.  “It should be an organization designed to draw attention to, get support for and ultimately make “citizenship-based taxation” a violation of international law. ”  And I think the name is perfect.

    Yes, I  can get behind that 100%.  I’ve had people ask at the Flophouse why we aren’t taking the US to court or exploring other avenues to bring citizenship-based taxation before the international community (media, NGOs and other organizations). ACA can’t do this sort of thing. In fact no American expat org could do something like this because they have no interest whatsoever in embarrassing the US or  going after the country on an international level.  Doing this would completely destroy whatever leverage (however slight) they do have with the homeland government.  And let’s face it, they care deeply about that influence.

    And, yes, your point is well taken about “abused Americans.”  Kinda hurt to admit but hey….

    So where do I sign up?

    @Wellington, UScitizensabroad is right – we don’t need dues or fees here.  What is needed are people and skills.  Lots of very talented people here and could we not find a couple of international lawyers willing to tilt at windmills with us?