. FATCA Fact Finding Forum Report Part III
We took a break after Professor Christians’ presentation and began again with a brief talk by Anglican Archbishop Dorian Baxter who is the President of the Progressive Canadian Party. He related a very funny story of a conversation with an older member of his congregation who lamented that we no longer had Steve Jobs, nor Johnny Cash or Bob Hope. They talked a bit about this and then applied to current state of Canada – we have no jobs, no cash and no hope!
He emphasized that we need to hold the CDN govt accountable to the standard of the Westminster model of Parliamentary Democracy. This relates to a core principle of the Progressive Canadian Party and the illegal “merger” of the Canadian Alliance Reform Party (aka “CRAP”). This provoked much laughter. Then he applied the Westminster ideal to the fact that FATCA is an invasion of CDN Autonomy as well as the Canadian Treasury as it is a money grab of millions of dollars from Canadian families, their children and their children’s children.
Next we heard from James Jatras who had travelled all the way from Washington to be with us. He has a completely different approach than what is commonly being expressed, even by Brockers. We all speak of FATCA as if it will happen; “resistance is futile.” He feels there is very much that can be done to defeat FATCA.
*FATCA is not equivalent to NAFTA, WTO, etc. Most Homelanders are completely unaware of it. Including a high-level aide to a Senate Finance Committee
*FATCA amounts to a UNILATERAL, extra-territorial law which says if you don’t obey us, we will punish you with sanctions.
*Instead of an IGA, Canada should pass a tax treaty override; what we have now is the CDN govt and the FFI’s collaborating against CDN citizens.
*US: “we are generously allowing you to change your law.” This is no partnership.
*Article 2 of the IGA “foreign partner; subsection A is unequal to subsection B and Art 6 US will “eventually” adapt to partner level This will never happen.
*like a preemptive war where one commits suicide to avoid death
*China will not; expects Brazil will not; Russia? It is CRUCIAL that Canada say “NO” This will set the stage for others to do the same. Powerful influence since we are such a major partner of the US, if we can do it, so can others
“Never seen such a bad law similar to the Catastrophic Recovery Act of 1989 or the Dubai Ports Law, which were repealed
*FATCA stands to cost the world $1 trillion dollars what with the tax lawyers, accountants and the IT depts. required to make it work
*CBA letter to US Treasury – take 1% of the money spending to implement FATCA and use instead, to repeal FATCA
*We need $50k – $100k a month for 12 months in order to deal with repealing FATCA; ads in “Roll Call; etc, you can’t just ask Congress to do something, there’s a process
*EXTORT EMBARRASSING DETAILS/ MAKE AN ORGANIZED EFFORT
*Treasury is in a rush to get IGA’s signed before the repeal forces rise up
*Where on earth are the CDN media, the NDP, the Lib Party, the Conservative Party –(just at this point, Mr Gullon mentions a newcomer is a member of the Green Party)
*FATCA = a US Discriminatory Trade Infraction
*Canada: We will hit you with law suits, trade actions, etc. Legislation after FATCA-we will withhold 30% of all income of Americans in Canada; ask our PFFI’s to collect waivers, etc
*Seek out those spending millions now and get a tiny portion of that towards PR to repeal
*Discussion of who has signed – UK, Denmark, Ireland, Mexico, Switzerland; UK has to clear Parliament; the Honorable Sinclair Stevens suggested that we emphasize any aspect that UK has yet to clear – this could have an impact on Canada. Not sure it was clear why – i.e., an American might not understand the Canadian attitude toward England in parliamentary matters.
*Are the IGA’s “Executive Agreements?” or “Competent Authority Agreements?” Is Treasury overstepping by not getting Congress to approve IGA’s? Treasury says they have to promulgate regulations and that they have the legal authority to do so. Do they?
*UK-signed Sept 12, 2012. They still have to implement the legislation allowing for FATCA and now, son of FATCA
*There are those who make things happen, those who watch things happen and those who ask “what happened?” We need to be of the first category.
*You must require the government to JUSTIFY why they are doing this
*Bring back 2003 when PM Chretien said NO to attacking in Iraq; very similar to the “coalition of the willing” notice again, the UK is the first to sign on
*Recapture and recreate the 2003 movement
*The Green Party representative, Erik (sp?) Jacob Hawkins is a Critic in the Shadow Cabinet, is from Barrie and works directly with Elizabeth May; Parliament recessed; however, with a petition with at least 25 signatures, a member can force Parliament to examine an issue. The Honorable Sinclair Stevens, Prof. Allison Christians and Jon Richardson immediately drafted a petition which we all signed to present ASAP and hope no IGA is signed before Parliament resumes in January.
*There should be bilateral agreements without any bizarre sanctions
*Banks themselves should have reasons to instigate movement against FATCA; likely banks have pressured Flaherty who clearly did not like, did not agree with and did not want FATCA
*Discussion of possible actions in near future re: Op Ed’s, etc. (more on this later and please don’t ask for now)
At this point, Petros asked me to drive Prof. Christians to the airport to catch her plane so I left and do not know what happened after this point though Jon Richardson mentioned there would be several more speakers after the break and Petros had prepared something, so hopefully, he will have more to report and was able to deliver his comments.
Generally, the audience composed of about 5 members of the Prog. Canadian Party including previously named speakers; Abby Desham, Allison Christians, James Jatras, Petros, Deckhard and myself (I don’t know if there were other Brockers) and the rest were duals with their non-US partners. I spoke to a lady who said she was an Accidental remaining in “full ostrich;” she has been following since ExpatForum and reads IBS. The lady sitting next to her had to go but also came due to Brock. I spoke to a couple and a man who said Peggy Nash had told him about the meeting; another set of 3 who knew via Brock and 2 more who also knew via Brock. One fellow was conversant with many concepts but I did not get a chance to speak with him. At least 11 attendees were not Brockers or speakers or Party members
Welcome home, Deckard. Lousy driving weather for sure in Ontario. Thanks so much for recording the conference! So many of us would have liked to have been there and there’s a lot of valuable information in the proceedings. As Calgary mentioned, I too will be very happy to lend a hand with transcription.
Thanks everyone for the kind welcome home!
I could strip-out the audio for transcription purposes but it really is going to be a lot to go through – I’ll communicate offline with Calgary411 and Pacifica777 about that. I think y’all would more enjoy the actual video event with all the animated conversation, but I also think a transcript would be awesome to have as well.
Meanwhile, guess what I found on my laptop (which I had donated for the day for YouTube playback from the podium): the FATCA FAQ from Deloitte that Allison Christians referenced in her section on U.S. indicia. Here’s the link:
And here’s the relevant section that a few people have been asking about:
12. What is considered indicia of U.S. status?
Notice 2010-60 lists six indicia of U.S. status:
Indication that the account holder is a U.S. Citizen or resident
A U.S. place of birth
A U.S. mailing or permanent address
An account where the only address is a P.O. Box, in care of address or hold mail address
A power of attorney (POA) or signing authority granted to a person with a U.S. address
Instructions to send payments to an account in the U.S. or any instructions received from
Having one of these indicia does not mean that the account is owned by a U.S. person, only that it must be given closer scrutiny.
@usx Whoops, missed your request. Deckard lists the outline above. I am sure Allison had that list on the screen but commented without any notes.
I remember the examples as being situations that were unthinkable and would largely, not apply to any of us. It will be on the video.
*The U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, Susan Rice took to the speaker well and decried the nerve of an African Nation (Eritrea) for have the nerve to pass a law taxing their citizens where ever in the world they lived, even though they were taxed by their host country. Evidently she was unaware that her employer, The United States Government, did exactly the thing, she so hated.
If the United States does not wake up and smell the coffee, they will become the twin of that poverty stricken North African Country. There is no evidence that politicians of either major party, has a clue and stick to the idea that it is our right to suck taxes from other countries, while we fall father behind in world trade and banks around the world refuse to open or continue an account for anyone whom they can trace to any trace of American citizenship. To call our politicians nincompoops is to give nincompoops a bad name.
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