10 thoughts on “Ireland signs on to FATCA”

1. Reuters has a story on this too. Basically a remixed version of the Treasury press release. Ridiculously biased quotes, e.g.:

   FATCA has come under fire from Americans with foreign financial accounts because they are accustomed to secrecy. Foreign financial institutions have complained, too, about compliance costs and the law’s intrusion, especially in countries where banking secrecy has been a part of the financial tradition.

   http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/06/usa-tax-fatca-idUSL1E8N63DQ20121206

2. @Eric 

   Thanks for sharing this. It is disheartening to see the same lazy journalism month after month.

3. @Northern Shrike.

   Eric and I put up comments on the Reuter’s story, for what it is worth.  It is disheartening, how these so called journalist are just scribes these days.  When you see something like the Reuter’s story written on a subject you know something about, it does give you pause about anything else you read!   

4. @Northern Shrike

   I put up a quick comment.  Don’t know if they will allow it to show..

   Does your parliament have nothing to say about this unilateral FATCA Cram down? 

   This is only ‘an agreement; on the margins, in the sense, that the victim is allowed to keep some small change to catch the bus home, after being robbed on the street by a thief.

   It is hardly done yet.  I think you will find, that many unsuspecting IRIS dual citizens, accidental Americans and U.S. greencard holders, all considered “US Persons” will be caught up in violations of their privacy.  Additionally all spouse and co holders of accounts with these U.S Persons will have their data handed over to the International Revenue Service.  Did you know that?  Do you have a Civil liberties organization to examine what this so called agreement is all about?

   You might want to model what the Canadian one is asking.

   http://bit.ly/11AouR8

   The scope of the information being requested under FATCA is alarmingly broad!

5. Accustumed to secrecy!!!! They can and would put me in jail (really, auction off anything in my name if I owed the government here taxes.) Me thinks there are too many sucking from the FATCA-US Government paid for TEET. Let them!! The US taxpayer is paying more to implement this garbage than they’ll ever see in taxes collected. Last time I checked, it was HARD to make money and get rich. The reality is that there are far less rich guys than the FATCA proponents suggest. Just use your brains people… look @ the Pareto principle….

6. *I guess we need to again reiterate that these agreements have in no way yet been made into law. That is an entirely different question. When the UK (who appears to have been first to sign), who will introduce this into legislation next year, actually signs this into law, then we can scream. The process is still in its fetal stage (albeit sad), and will require months more before we see any final version.

7. @Sighon

   You are right, it is in the fetal stage, but the IRS is trying to create the impression of imminent birth and, so “abortion” is a good characterization of what needs to happen to stop this before it is actually a living creature outside the IGA womb! 🙂  

   Not sure you saw this, but we post a lot of FATCA related articles here, and this push back against the “Son of FATCA” is significant on a couple levels.  

   Channel Islands Rebuff UK’s FATCA-Style Plans. http://bit.ly/TZFbSJ  A crack in the FATCANTICs juggernaut for a global GATCA? FATCASTIC!   Maybe not!

   Jersey and Guernsey have released a joint statement indicating that they will not sign an enhanced Tax Information Exchange Agreement with British authorities unless the UK’s proposed Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)-style initiative targets global adoption.

8. Another Story out on this agreement… Dec 21st.

   Ireland signs FATCA agreement

   Basically, a rehash of an older story, with this added at the end… 

   In other FATCA news, the Reuters news agency, citing unnamed accounting industry sources,  is reporting that the US Treasury Department “will miss a year-end deadline” to publish the final FATCA rules.

   “A spokeswoman for the Treasury Department on Tuesday would not confirm whether the year-end deadline will be met,” Reuters said.

   Jatras alerted us to this story, here.

9. Ireland and FATCA – “Going a step further”

   How free are the citizens of the “land of the free”?

   We here at Q Wealth have reported on a bit of legislation called FATCA (the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act) many times.  If you need a reminder as to what FATCA is we’ve described it before as, “ America’s most daring extra-territorial legislation ever, FATCA (the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act) that aims, seriously, to draft all banks and other financial institutions in the rest of the world as unpaid spies and tax collectors.”

   In other words the US, far from promoting freedom at home or abroad, is taking away freedoms from their neighbors.  This act, by design, both directly and indirectly reduces the freedoms of US citizens.

10. In response to the shameless marketing being done with the story on Ireland above, I still decided to post a comment, and see if it would take.  Was raining here, nothing else to do, and got thinking about how to answer Ken’s question.  

    Is there a way to know which countries are leaning toward compliance?

    However, after being done and hitting enter, nothing happened, so I emailed it to the site administrator, Adam Richardson with the question what are the parameters of getting something to show up.  

    Thought I would post this here, just for my reference later..  Nothing unusual.  Brockers will have heard it all before, or said it better.  Just adjusting the narrative to fit the question and build upon recent stories…

    Happy Holidays.

    I saw your blog on  Ireland and FATCA – “Going a step further”

    I came to discover it from a tweet I saw, and so I read it.

    Wondered if you had anything new to add on the Ireland IGA.

    I thought I would post a reply to Ken to his question on  how many countries are complying.  After doing so, I did not get a response that it was accepted, rejected, or in moderation.  Not sure what happened. Maybe you have some limits on characters and/or words, so that stopped it.  It would be nice if you could get an indication after putting in the effort.  Probably won’t try again.

    Fortunately, I saved it, and thought I would just email you this.  You probably know these facts about FATCA, but thought I would respond to Ken, who obviously is fairly new to the subject.  

    For what it is worth, here is what I tried to post.  
    Best regards

    Ken,

    Right now, there are 4 countries who have signed these IGAs:  Denmark, Mexico, Ireland and the UK. The Swiss have ‘initiated’ one, and others say they are entering into negotiations, like New Zealand, Australia, Luxembourg, Germany, Spain, France, Italy, Israel, Canada, etc.

    The IRS is proclaiming that they are in negotiations with 50 such countries, and trying to create the impression that the momentum (FATCA Freight Train) is unstoppable. However, that still leaves ~147 to go if they actually get those 50 to sign up. What about them?

    You won’t find the likes of Pakistan on the list of eager compilers. From NPR, this chuckle: http://n.pr/V9QTe8 

    So, maybe FATCA it isn’t inevitable, unless “Good men, do nothing” to oppose this Draconian and ill conceived law. In search of one good intention, it is creating Financial mayhem around the world! If you haven’t read this, I would recommend the 11 Reasons why FATCA must be repealed as published by Bloomberg BNA.http://bit.ly/RBcJZl

    I personally was pleased to see that their timetable keeps slipping as reported in Reuters, and blogged about here.  http://bit.ly/UerEqv

    Let’s hope this implies real administrative problems that will allow more time for opposition to wake up and try to slow down or seriously modify FATCA to something more reasonable, like working within normal TAX Treaties we have now!

    Also, we do not need new sources of BIG DATA with all the security risks, identity  theft and fraud that comes with them.  FATCA with its insistence on identifying its “US Persons” around the globe is putting Americans abroad in the cross hairs of some pretty unsavory governments and institutions.  Why does America treat its citizens this way, you might ask? http://bit.ly/X1J8ES

    If you are interested, these IGAs are called Executive Agreements, although ‘Cram Downs’, is a more appropriate expression of what they really are. 

    After the media headlines of signed deals, it is important to remember this is just signing between technocrats. The countries will still require enabling legislation to put into place. Privacy laws will have to be modified to fit the U.S. demands.  I.E., “WE, America, don’t like your local little privacy laws, so change them!”  

    Maybe legislators in Parliaments will balk at this arrogance, and maybe not.  They are being offered a ‘face saving’, yet very unequal reciprocity morsel. It might be enough to hood wink them and their citizens into thinking they will get something tangible back in return.

    Hardly! It is a joke on them. It is faux reciprocity!

    However, we must recognize, that all the Treasuries in the developed countries are looking for additional revenues. Offshore taxes seem like low hanging fruit. “Let’s get our rich evaders that are hiding money in America, the LARGEST Tax haven in the world!” 

    That is Treasuries hope and strategy to change the unworkable FATCA (as passed by Congress) into a government to government ‘automatic’ tax data exchange with very unequal requirements. It is a tiny carrot backed up with the BIG stick of 30% with holding on US sourced income.

    BTW, no matter what they call them, they are TAX Treaties. Normally, that would require the ‘Advice and Consent’ of Congress, but by calling them IGA Executive agreements, Treasury is trying to by pass Congress and claims the right to do this under their regulatory authority. 

    This is a prime example of Technocratic rule.  The Bureaucrats decide and enforce their version of US policy with no further input from Congress required or WANTED.

    Hopefully, some in the Senate or House will wake up to what the Treasury is doing, and reign these efforts in. Especially when they see the systemic damage and cost to the world’s economy from this preposterous regulation. 

    More likely, it will take capital flight out of U.S. Banks due to the domestic version of FATCA (Call it DATCA, if you like) which is promised in the IGAs. Maybe banks losing capital reserves will wake them up to the harm Treasury is doing in their name. More on DATCA here http://bit.ly/VMcD29 and here http://bit.ly/VerZdp

    Congress did not vote for DATCA, and had no idea that would be the result of FATCA. It is very hard for Treasury to make the case that DATCA is the ‘Will of Congress”.  But they are not about to ask them by putting up their IGAs for ‘advise and consent!’ 🙂

    Setting aside the IGAs, even if none were signed, FATCA law still requires all of the Foreign Financial Institutions (FFIs) in the rest world to register with the IRS and be compliant with U.S. Law, under the U.S. principle, that our law is greater than your law. Given the thousands and thousands of FFIs around the globe, not sure how the IRS manages and oversees the data flood given the current staffing and budget cuts. 

    It is a good question ask. How do they do it? It is a staggering task! The fact is, FATCA is totally unworkable and would collapse without these IGAs.  Even with them, what is more important, is that FATCA administration drains away IRS resources that should be focused on homeland evasion and fraud. That’s where the money is! You need not read farther than Treasuries own Auditor General semi-annual reports to see the glaring truth of misplaced efforts. http://bit.ly/Vi9T5Z

    Only in America can we dream up such hubristic legislation to think our International Revenue Service can really manage this, and that the rest of the world will meekly comply.  Can you imagine any other country in the world trying to require this of America? Me either.

    So, yes the noose is tightening, as this thing is also becoming global. FATCA was really just the “Tip of the Spear” in a global effort to stop tax competition around the world. We live in a copy cat regulatory environment, and want is good for America, is often copied as good for others irrespective to the cost or actual outcomes.  With cheering on, by the OECD and the EU, there is a global GATCA in the works. http://bit.ly/TfVHwW  

    Call it a global tidal movement. It has become a force of nature. As time passes, it is harder and harder to build seawalls against it. We are heading towards a GATCAwellian future, I fear.  Consequences unknown. 

    Sadly, in America, the press is almost TOTALLY silent on the subject.  It doesn’t sell to be against what is marketed as a ‘War on Offshore Tax Evasion. (WOOTE)’  Never mind that none of our other Wars have worked.  War on Drugs, War on Terror, War on Poverty.  The unintended collateral damage from this misguided War with the FATCA drone preemptive strike is still unfolding.  

    What we do see, is that this war is not as precise as what Congress thought they were launching against homeland offshore tax evasion. With Treasury taking over the guidance system,  applying it with broad strokes to cover what they call “U.S. Persons” residing around the globe, we are carpet bombing the world. We didn’t care about these issues with the ‘Shock and Awe’ of our imperial war of preemption on Iraq, and we don’t seem to care about it with our financial FATCA preemptive imperialism either.

    Not a hopeful future. The impacts on the world’s economy have yet to be seen, and given the lack of interest in US media, we will only be reading about it in retrospective books, like after the financial melt down of 2008.  So it goes.