A Fact Findg Forum on FATCA will be held in Toronto. Everyone nearby should consider attending this rally. Here is the announcement:
The Federal PC Party (Progressive Canadian) of Canada is calling ALL CANADIANS (Liberals, NDP, Conservatives, ordinary citizens, et al) to stand on guard for Canada and Canadian sovereignty!Plan to attend a Fact Finding Forum to preserve Canadian sovereignty and keep Canada a free and independent nation!Who: The Honourable Sinclair Stevens, Federal PC Party leader, Party President Dorian Baxter and othersWhere: University of Toronto – Room TBA (click for updates)When: Saturday December 15, 2012 – 9:30 a.m. – 5:00 p.m.In 1961, on May 17th., President John F. Kennedy addressed the Parliament of Canada. During the address President Kennedy, commenting on the special friendship between Canada and the U.S., stated:“Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners. And necessity has made us allies. Those whom nature hath so joined together, let no man put asunder.”Neither President Kennedy nor Prime Minister Pearson in their worst political nightmares could have ever anticipated this second, dastardly, unprovoked, unprincipled and utterly unconscionable U.S. assault on Canadian sovereignty!!!For updates and evolving information: http://StopFATCA.wordpress.comFurther information:PC Party President: Dorian Baxter (289) 221-2687PC Party National HQ: (905) 853-8949
Make sure you listen to Anne Soukup (see videos below) who does a awesome job in her discussion US Expat problems with Goldstein on Gelt. She and Mary Lou Serrato are doing a great job of lobbying for Expats. Yet I take issue only with their use of the imperative: “Americans Abroad must” pay taxes. In many cases, the United States tries to illegally extort taxes from dual nationals or people who are no longer American citizens, in some cases by reinstating their citizenship against their will. To whom must a dual national pay taxes if resident in their non-US country? Obviously, not to the United States, since the international doctrine of Dominant Nationality applies. If the US wants to tax them, they are violating international conventions on nationality and are attempting to enforce barbaric forms of perpetual loyalty against the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. So I would say in contrast to ACA: The United States must leave us alone.
Meanwhile, Victoria tells us that she paid $9000 for her 2011 taxes, including taxes on her French unemployment benefits!
Phantom gains: Because we had sold our last piece of investment property that year, I was aware that I would be paying capital gains on the sale and was prepared to the cough up a couple thousand U.S. dollars. What I did not know was that I would “make” more money on paper because of the different exchange rates: from Francs/Euros to U.S. Dollars. That was something of a shock but even so I’d heard that this is a frequent problem for other Americans abroad – this issue of “phantom gains” on property or mutual funds that come about simply because we (Americans abroad) are doing business in local currency but the U.S. government insists that everything be converted to U.S. dollars using the IRS-approved exchange rate for that filing year.
Unemployment is not Earned Income: I was unemployed and collecting French unemployment insurance for the year 2011. To my utter disbelief this income is not excludable under the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. So basically it appears that I had to pay American taxes on my French unemployment benefits. Amazing.
So what was the final damage? 9,000 U.S. Dollars (late filing fees and interest included).
So Victoria, soon to be French citizen, pays more taxes than the 49% and what does she get in return? The right to visit her family in the United States. That’s the only tangible benefit to compliance (=”not being a lawbreaker” in the eyes of the US only). I went to a walk-in clinic yesterday and presented my OHIP card and received a consultation. US citizens resident in Canada perhaps can tell us what other benefits they receive from paying taxes to the US. Certainly not heath care or food stamps (snap!).
In other news, the United States Senate is consider sanctions that would make illegal Turkey’s gold-based trade with Iran. Apparently, the barbaric relic is a threat to the barbaric United States, since it is having trouble enforcing its financial hegemony over Iran and Turkey. Stop, stop, stop trading: the United States says so. Finally, Intrade is shutting down the accounts of Americans. Canadian journalist are mourning the loss of Mark Carney, head of the Bank of Canada, who plans now to blow financial bubbles for the Bank of England. Brockers have suggested that Jon Corzine, Douglas Shulman or Timothy Geithner, all of whom are currently out of work, replace Carney as the head of Bank of Canada. That way, when the Canada signs the IGA, there will be a Washington insider calling the shots at the BOC.
Catch up on Mary Lou Serrato, who spoke to Goldstein on Gelt in August.
“Unemployment is not earned income”.
Another reason that this is not fair is that many countries require one to do considerable work while collecting unemployment (looking for work, attending classes, doing community service, etc.) Also, the benefits often provide a minimum level of subsistence, there is not money left over for taxes.
For the benefit of those who don’t remember or who haven’t lived in Canada: Sinclair Stevens, who is hosting this forum, was a federal cabinet minister under the Conservative (then Progressive Conservative) government of Brian Mulroney, back in the 1980s. I remember him; I actually lived in his riding for a time, though I didn’t vote for him.
I find it fascinating that Stevens, a “red tory” (more to the left, and certainly less to the far right, than the current lot of ex-Reform conservatives like Harper and ex-Mike-Harris-government types like Flaherty), is starting a separate party from the Conservative party, with the same initials (Progressive Canadian PC) as the fomer pre-Reform-merger Progressive Conservative (PC) party. And that he’s holding this forum. Sounds to me like another example that all is not exactly unity and solidarity within current Conservative Party ranks, on this and on other issues. Unlikely IMO this will make any difference to the back-door IGA negotiations Flaherty is conducting with the Americans, but it may make an interesting difference in the next general election. I hope. (See also the rather dramatic erosion of the conservatives’ margin of victory in yesterday’s Calgary Centre by-election compared with what they got in the 2011 general election.)
Good to see that the remaining progressive elements in the former PC party want to stand up for Canadian sovereignty and against American assaults on that sovereignty, unlike Harper and other Reformers in the current conservative party, from all the evidence I’ve seen so far.
I echo Petros’ call for those in the Toronto area to go to this forum and bolster the numbers. With any luck, the Toronto MSM may actually cover this, if the journalists or editors are old enough to remember Stevens. A large crowd won’t hurt.
At the 12 minute mark of the Anne Soukup video she talks about US citizens abroad contemplating suicide. Don’t you think that government policies that make people seriously consider suicide should be considered to be a human rights abuse?
The Swiss Handelszeitung carried an article this week called “Fatca is causing marital crises, Americans in Switzerland fight against the US hunt for tax funds abroad, Expats in Switzerland are under extreme pressure”. Several excerpts are translated below:
“Americans in Switzerland are showing resistance against their own government, reported the newspaper “Der Sonntag”. “
” “People are afraid and are sad how they are are being treated by the American government”, said Karr. “
“Also in other countries millions of fellow citizens are being targeted by the US tax dragnet said Karr. “But in Switzerland the pressure is the greatest because of Swiss bank customer privacy.” The townhall meetings were very emotional, said Karr. Bi-national marriages are becoming increasingly stressful, said Karr. “At the townhall meeting some wives broke out in tears since their husbands do not want to have joint bank accounts with them, in particular, do not want to share their bank account details with the US government. For this reason, some divorces have also already occurred.”
Ed.: Karr is identified in the article as the Co-Chair of Republicans in Switzerland, President of the American International Club of Geneva and Representative of Americans in Switzerland Working Group (AMISWG).
http://www.handelszeitung.ch/politik/fatca-bringt-ehekrisen
I wish I could go.
@innocente
FATCA will see the end of American global migration.
No mincing of words from The_Animal. They should call it “fare share” instead of “fair share.”
Well, John, I’m a full-bred 100% Canadian-born Canadian and a pissed off Canadian spouse of an American Citizen who hopefully will be giving up her American Citizenship after we run the gauntlet of American tax returns. I also wish my Canadian brethren would wake the hell up to the threat against our Canadian Sovereignty. If I was in Toronto, I’d be marching with you guys and gals, pitchfork and torch in hand.
You’re welcome to make a sign out of the Obama Is A Thief one. That’s the one I’d be carrying.
@ The Animal
Great protest posters! I think others might like to do some too. I’ve got one ready to go but I don’t know how to post it. How did you do it? Wish I could be in Toronto for the forum and I hope even if the MSM doesn’t show up (I think this whole FATCA fiasco is just too complicated for them to handle) then I would at least hope someone who does go would take photos and we can all try to help to spread them around the net. We’re never going to get this story out there to the general population with words alone. We need sound bites and pictures too.
A short but to the point video that would be good to circulate.
WHDT Boston: “Anti-FATCA Revolt”
I don’t understand why you guys keep your US citizenship anyway? It’s quite clear you’re not and don’t consider yourself American anymore, you guys have the other citizenship, just drop the US one? For all the wailing, and apparent “terror” you’re under you’d think the cost to dispose of your citizenship would be worth it, you know?
@Steve, What I don’t understand is why your country just doesn’t let people go more easily. Someone just got an appointment to renounce from the Vancouver Consulate. The next available date: June, 2013. That is a shameful reticence on the part of your country to allow people to renounce. What’s wrong with them?
@Petros I don’t think ending citizenship is one of the top priorities of the State Department, the embassies and consulates probably shouldn’t make it difficult for someone to shed their citizenship although I do think they should counsel the citizen on the extreme ramifications of their actions.
@WhoaIt’sSteve,
What are those extreme ramifications the US will punish us with?
Re Petros 11:16 pm,
Re the person who got the appointment today from the Vancouver Consulate for June 2013, if you’re referring to Dawid, which I think you are, I can add that he had his first appointment in March 2012. A year and two months before they allow him to sign the papers — that’s totally ridiculous. On top of that, he relinquished his citizenship a few decades ago so they should have done him in one appointment in the first place as most consulates do. After not being a citizen for so long, there is absolutely nothing to reflect on — what there is is a strong desire to regain your normal uni-national life and get out of this weird limbo!
@Steve,
I think it should be a top priority for State Dept to process expatriations swiftly because if word were to get out that the demand to renounce is so huge they can’t keep up with it, that looks really bad for the US. If they give the impression it’s because they’re trying to prevent people from renouncing, it would look even worse.
@calgary I wasn’t thinking about punishment, it’s a huge vast difference from being a US citizen, with the right to come and go from the country as you please, take up residency in any state, and work for any employer to being a foreigner with the signing of a document. You give up your citizenship and you’re all the sudden one of “them” now, it’s something that I can’t even imagine I’d ever want to do.
@Pacifica Why? And who cares what the world thinks? I think the State Department should provide services for citizens quickly, efficiently, and in the most helpful manner possible but helping people to become foreigners I don’t think is or should be a top priority for the State Department.
@ Steve 11.23 om
I have no problem at all with the vice consul counselling the person on the effects of expatriation. (You actually have to sign a form that you are aware of this. I think there’s about 12 or so things on the list.) But I think by the time a person comes to make the appointment, they have really thought it out, so should be allowed to go ahead with it in one visit (which is now the case at many consulates) if they want to.
I know two of Brockers who hesitated after their first visit. One waited a while before booking her second visit to give herself more time to think, The other, even before he went said he wasn’t sure, so he’d go to his first visit and think it over some more. I don’t think he has gone any further and it was almost a year ago.
So, yes, I agree that the vice consul should make sure you know the ramifications, but as long as the person is ready to sign, they consulates really should just do it in one meeting. People are mature enough to know if they need more time to reflect.
Steve
You say:
“being a US citizen, with the right to come and go from the country as you please”
U.S. citizens have neither the right to come nor go as they please. It is conditional on having a passport. Having a passport is soon to be conditional on tax compliance.
You might me interested to know that there is no constitutional right to leave the U.S.
Also, the consulates are there to serve the needs of U.S. citizens abroad which includes processing renunciations.
@ Steve,
I think of a State Dept, amongst its other roles, as sort of the PR Department for a country. So in that sense, I assume it’s in their interest to keep the US looking good. Like having lots of people expatriate does not look good. But if it looks like there’s so many you can’t keep up with, it looks even worse. And worst of all,if it looks like a country is preventing its people from leaving, it starts to look like North Korea or something, which is awful for its image.
@renounce It’s not the leaving I care about it’s the coming back. And I have no problems filing my taxes, it’s easy I give the paperwork to the accountant a week later I sign, write a check or two, and/or think about what I’m going to spend the refund on.
I’m firmly on your side that if we have to keep the filing requirement it should be super easy, accessible online, and simplified to the point that someone could do it themselves.
@Pacifica That only goes as far as we care about what other nations think about us. Rightly or wrongly we’re not usually interested in what other people think or that interested in joining the global neighborhood. I think if we live in a “globalized” world we should participate and lead rather than just be jerks. However I love my country and am content with my life, so I’d be just as happy if we turned back the globalization clock, and firstly concentrated on ourselves.
Em
I put it up on FB and threw it up on here via insert image link. If you have Picasa Online Web Albums or any web image albums site, you can throw the URL up on to the Insert Image Link at IBS. I’m sure the Obama-ites have me on their “drone hit-list” now. Like I care.
I would really like it, WhoaIt’sSteve, if you guys went back to the “US-centric” closed society that you were too. Just don’t try to steal money from the expats and hit them with penalization that’s over and beyond draconian. Frankly, I hope you go into a financial death-spiral and go right over that fiscal cliff. The dissolution of the United States as a fiscally viable nation would be tops on my Christmas wish list. Got it?