Cross-posted from the Franco-American Flophouse.
Just Me thought it would be a dandy idea to post this here even though the video has already been circulated in the comments section. This video is quite good and deserves wider circulation. I received some wonderful mail in response to the post. I was contacted by a few of what I would describe as Quiet Renunciants. Their reflections started much earlier than mine but when I read about how they came to the conclusion that renouncing was the only sane option, I recognize my own thinking which is just a few steps behind theirs. It’s both exhilarating and humbling – I need to be reminded on a regular basis that I’m not alone and that there’s nothing particularly special about my case, my angst and my anger.
Another extraordinary resource passed along by Just Me. The Life of An American Abroad is a twenty minute video that was filmed during a tax seminar earlier this year.
An actor plays the role of a very naive American who moves to the UK to study and work and who ends up falling in love, getting a permanent residency permit, buying a house, getting married, having children, saving for retirement, and ultimately passing away in his host country.
Now if this person were from any other country in the world (i.e. not the U.S.) you know what we’d call him? An emigrant/immigrant. I find it very amusing that, for the most part, we don’t and I think that’s a problem. As Camus once said, “Mal nommer les choses, c’est ajouter au malheur du monde.” (Calling things by incorrect names is adding to the misery in the world.)
As this American tells his life story, a panel of tax advisors is there to explain to him what he has to do to stay compliant with the U.S. worldwide tax and reporting regime (citizenship-based taxation). To his horror (and mine) not one thing that he does in that life remains untouched by the IRS. Well, perhaps that is an overstatement since he is allowed to eat, breathe, and eliminate waste without the U.S. government looking over his shoulder. How generous of them.
I personally know many Americans who have experienced all the life events talked about this video and I think I’m on very firm ground here when I say that even the folks I know who think they are compliant, probably aren’t.
So I strongly urge everyone to watch this video and I mean everyone.
For those of you reading this blog who are not U.S. citizens or Green Card holders and who think this does not concern them, please think again. You are indirectly concerned because many of your governments find the American system rather admirable (the French, for example). Members of other diasporas ( French, German, Mexican, Brazilians and so on) would do well to be aware of how U.S. worldwide taxation works so they can fight efforts to have something similar imposed on them. As for those of you who are married or contemplating marriage to a U.S. citizen, best to know what you’re getting into (or the merde you are already in).
For Flophouse readers who live in the U.S. and who are still under the impression that Americans abroad are making a big deal out of nothing, watch the video and ask yourself: would you be willing to live like this? And what about your children who may one day wish to live and work abroad? Do you want them to be captive citizens shut out from all the goodies associated with globalization, unable to take that great job in Shanghai or London because no one will hire Americans anymore or because the cost of compliance with all the U.S. requirements is simply too high?
And finally for my fellow Americans abroad, I’d like you to do something for me before you click “start.” Find a quiet place, take a deep breathe, and relax. You have options. Not all of them will make you happy and some will require effort on your part. What you do with this information is entirely up to you. I fully understand and empathize with those who are renouncing. There are others who are fighting like demons: joining American Citizens Abroad and the Association of American Residents Overseas, writing letters, putting pressure on politicians, voting this year against those lawmakers who are refusing to listen, and pestering the homeland media to get the story out. And, yes, there are folks who are doing a Deep Dive and cutting all ties to the U.S., avoiding the U.S. embassy like plague-infested territory, not renewing their passports and so on. I’m not sure the last is viable given the arrival of FATCA, and I wouldn’t do it, but it’s a big big world out there and surely some of them will succeed.
Wherever you are in this mess, the important thing is that you do the next right thing and I honestly think that the only wrong answer here is to kick back and pretend it isn’t happening at all.
I do think it is dandy! 🙂 Thanks for posting, and for your eloquence! This subject needs the widest visibility, and a thread devoted to it here is important, I think.
My husband and I may be doing a trip to India and I’ve been reading up on its history. As we all know, both Ghandi and King managed a passive resistance approach to making political change. Could USP’s effectively use these principles? Renouncing seems more like self-immolation than a resistance movement to me.
I just got connected into NPR talk of the nation regarding what to address regarding this campaign. The entire panel had no idea what FATCA or FATCAT in the 2010 HIRE act and were not aware of the renunciation issues. I asked why they are not addressing the expat vote in media. I received a thank you and they moved on without having any idea of what was going on.
*Oh Bubblebustin, don’t make a big deal out of renunciations. It’s a simple, normal and natural thing which may make a lot of sense for many people, like how it does for me. It’s no big deal. The world is huge with many great places and many wonderful people. Everything in life has advantages and disadvantages. We lose and gain with everything that we do. A renunciation is a loss in some areas, but a gain in others. Normally, it shouldn’t be necessary, but sometimes nations forget the value of their citizens, making renunciations necessary. Your country needs to be there for you. Your country needs to serve you and your country must appreciate and respect the fact that you choose to be a citizen of it. If such is not the case, then that country is not for you and just let go of it. There is no point in fighting for a country which does not appreciate the value of its citizens. If you want to fight for America, then renounce and then fight for America once stateside Americans come to you seeking your help, showing you that you are needed and appreciated and that they regret that they didn’t notice you earlier. In the mean time, help Canada to not become another America.
Likely it will be replayed here, where you would hear a nervous caller on national radio
http://www.npr.org/programs/talk-of-the-nation/
Feel free to send followup questions to the contacts—you guys are a lot more eloquent than me.
Good for you, Mark Twain.
Website says:
“Audio Pending — available at approximately 6:00 p.m. ET”
Thanks @Mark Twain!
Mark Twain, my landline phone provider is in New York City, so I have to wait for the city to light up again before I’ll be able to make or receive any calls again. 🙂
I can’t use any Swiss providers for now, because my internet provider blocked the ports that they require and neither wants to help the other to do business, so New York wins, even with Sandy!
@swisspinoy, @bubblebustin,
I agree with you, swisspinoy. It is all a sad commentary. Many of us see the writing is on the wall — I clearly see that my US citizenship is not valued or respected by the US government except for what they can collect from me. It is certainly not valued by Congress the makers of the law who think there is no reason for anyone to have a “foreign account”. That I have left the US is not understood by the homelanders and I don’t have enough energy left in my 69 year old body to convince them, one by one. I am considered a traitor and a tax evader and the US even claims my son who has never lived or had any benefit whatever from the US. I won’t be a martyr — a dual Canadian-US citizenship (which I never thought I had as of my 1975 Oath of Canadian Citizenship) has use only for the US, not for me. I am a Canadian.
Likely they would respond on air to comments—-I always hear about “a flood of comments about…”
@ Mark Twain — I’ll be listening but with a sputtering computer it’s minute to minute until it’s gone for good (screen goes black but with an on/off and a side whack it has been coming back … so far). Anyway thanks for the effort (radio talking would be terrifying for me).
*Mark Twain, for what it’s worth, I sent them a suggestion. If they choose to discuss the matter, then maybe my offspring will continue to be US citizens in the years to come.
this is a great video to share with your friends. YOu can also search for it on youtube if you feel more comfortable with that.
@Bubblebustin- I would not compare renouncing to self immolation. I prefer to look at this issue another way.
I compare the carrying of the U.S. passport to be much like carrying a credit card or any other form of I.D. that is on your person. When it comes to choosing which credit cards you will carry you have two basic choices- either fee based or no fee. I personally don’t believe that you should have any credit card that charges an annual fee, unless that fee comes with special services that are worthwhile to you and will at least cover the costs of the fee paid.
Now if you view the passport as just another piece of identification then you need to ask yourself if there are any special fees that accompany carrying that passport and if there are then what benefits are gained by paying those fees? I believe that when looked at that way, the U.S. passport comes out not just with a big “0” but comes in with a negative balance.
If you are an expat the U.S. passport is the only government form of I.D. that attracts constant expenses, gives no benefits; other than that of allowing you to travel to other countries and which one day may even be rendered invalid if the accompanying liabilities are met. However if you have citizenship in another country, such as Canada, you can also travel just as freely on that passport and even live abroad- all without incurring restrictions on your lifestyle or assets.
You should not think of giving up your U.S. passport as engaging in immolation but rather as refusing to patronize a business that has consistently given you poor service. There is nothing immoral if you engage in nation shopping. The U.S. profits everyday because it markets itself to people who are doing just that.
Don’t let patriotism become the instrument by which the U.S. gets you to accept and particpate in your own demise. Love is not enough to live off of. Especially when the other partner doesn’t love you back.
@Mark Twain,
Thank you for your perseverence in getting on the NPR “Talk of the Nation”.
It was stated by Neal Conan” I promise — We’ll look into it.” (FATCA)
So, kudos. Words to follow up on.
@Mark Twain…
That is absolutely spectacular that you got through to NPR and Talk of the Nation. I don’t know why I haven’t thought about it before. It is a pretty darn good talk and callin show, and I will catch it tonight, online. Do you know what segment it was on?
I would strongly suggest that other Brockers follow-up on this with either emails and tweets asking for coverage of FATCA and it’s impacts on Americans abroad. I will be sure that ACA is aware of this, so their media person can follow up too.
Thanks for your initiative to do so. I was on one call-in talk show in LAX region, back in 2009, and I recall how much more difficult it was to do than I thought it would be. I was nervous as hell, so salute you for making this effort.
@Just Me, @All
Talk of the Nation, October 31, 2012– Mark Twain’s call-in:
http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=3&islist=true&id=5&d=10-31-2012,
@ about 40:57
Thanks again, Mark Twain!
*@Calgary, Thank you for that link!
@Mark, Great Job!! Thank you!!
Today’s show about 41 mins in. Didn’t get acknowledgement in the discussion at all—they moved on immediately without even acknowledging expat vote issues. Sorry to take away from the discussion about that great video.
*Mark Twain, what you did is a great service to Americans living abroad! Your effort shows how clueless, careless and inconsiderate many stateside Americans are about the world beyond US borders. They basically told you to piss off because they don’t give a damn. What amazes me the most about situations like these, is that so many US persons abroad are still voting like slaves to elect the next demorepublican dictator who will, again, show them the middle finger that they will kiss and lick with gratitude.
@Mark Twain
I am just getting back to an internet connecting and trying to figure which segment your comment is on.
I see it was on the Oct 31st program.
They have two segments…
This is the first where your call in is recorded.
Below is the transcript:
Note, Cohen said he promised he would followup, so hold him too it. One suggestion is is first place a comments there asking for FATCA followup would be appropriate. So far, only 4 comments and not any about FATCA.
Also contact NPR on their Contact link. Don’t let go of this slight opening pass by, is my advice. If nobody every asks again about FATCA, chances of follow-up are very slim.
Transcript
yes, please hold them to it. I sent 4 small followup quips. This morning’s NPR was a standard tax cheat in Switzerland article mentioned another post. If the comments come in before showtime there is a better chance for a followup.
On the lighter side, it is quite surreal to try to converse with a radio personality–it really is not a conversation. It is also pretty scary to hear your voice, and discover that you sound just like your dad even when you are a little hoarse. And electronics are amazing—I heard my own voice say “upset” — that is a word only my mother has ever used–it doesn’t exist in my vocabulary—-I remember using the word “pissed-off”.
Unfortunately, I missed both to use the word “Ëconomic Patriotism” and also to just ask them to tell ME what THEY knew about expat votes.
@Mark.. I heard that Swiss Bank story too. For others interested, here it is. It is short.
Help Wanted In Switzerland: Hunting Tax Cheats
Switzerland, which is almost synonymous with secretive banking, is looking for more staff to handle a flood of new requests from other countries that are looking for tax cheats. Last year the number of inquiries from overseas tax authorities almost doubled, to more than 700.
@MarkTwain
I am just posting a version of this comment at Talk of the Nation comment section. It will go into moderation, and we will see if it comes out. Probably not. I will also email it to @planetMoney and on the Contact NPR web site.