Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

The Isaac Brock Society

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RTS Radio Interview dated 8 August 2012:   http://www.rts.ch/audio/la-1ere/programmes/forum/4170924-qui-defend-encore-les-banques-suisses-08-08-2012.html

Interviewed were Antoine Spilmann, Member of the Committee of Swiss Respect (http://www.swissrespect.ch/index.php?id=21) as well as Charles Adams (Corporate Lawyer).

The header for the interview on the RTS website contained the following (quick human translation by me from the French in italics below):

Qui défend encore les banques suisses?   

Who still defends Swiss banks?

A l’occasion de son bilan intermédiaire à la présidence de la Confédération, Eveline Widmer Schlumpf a été confrontée à de nombreuses questions concernant l’autorisation accordée à plusieurs banques de transmettre aux autorités américaines des documents où figurent des noms de collaborateurs.

At the same time as her mid-term report as President of the Swiss Confederation, Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf has been confronted with numerous questions concerning the permission given to several banks to transmit documents containing the names of their employees to US authorities.

If you can understand French, I would highly recommend listening to the interview HERE.   One quick paraphrase into English from the interview: “…less than 2 percent of undeclared US holdings are in Switzerland; how would the US like the disclosure to Brazil of the accounts of South Americans held in Delaware??”

The site of Swiss Respect is definitely worth a visit.  There is some information in English, and I find the English text on the page (http://www.swissrespect.ch/index.php?id=21) quite refreshing, for example:

Our authorities meekly bow to foreign pressure instead of employing the tools they have: sovereignty and law. What is worse, they repeatedly and systematically violate the law, putting the citizens of our country and the economy as a whole at risk. It would appear that neither reciprocity nor equal treatment is either requested or achieved. This trend must be halted as rapidly as possible.

Ill-considered decisions dictated by fear have led our authorities to adopt restrictive provisions which frequently go beyond what our “economic partners” have called for (the famous “Swiss finish”). We sign agreements and approve texts which our competitors do not implement themselves and would never accept in their own countries. This is seriously undermining our economic and legal framework, and will soon impact on the real economy and the tax revenues from which the entire population benefits.

The Swiss Federal Council has, without any legal basis, supported providing the USA with the names of thousands of clients and employees of Swiss banks and access to other information (telephone calls, e-mails, etc.)

Switzerland is giving in without a fight. These abuses of power and illegal decisions on the part of the highest federal authorities are extremely difficult to swallow. It would be suicide for Switzerland to go it alone on fiscal self-declaration or a code of conduct, for there are as yet no international standards. Switzerland’s reputation for legal protection, privacy and the protection of private property has been seriously damaged.

Finally there appears to be a group in Switzerland who wants to put an end to the madness.

Are there other country-specific organizations in other countries trying to accomplish the same goals?

Neither Switzerland nor any other democratic country should have such a fear of the US that it allows its own sovereignty to be violated.

9 thoughts on “RTS Radio Interview (in French) with Swiss Respect: “Who still defends Swiss banks?”””

  1. Here is a note on the website of a Paris lawyer about Swiss Respect : http://www.etudes-fiscales-internationales.com/archive/2012/06/29/l-esprit-de-guillaume-tell-est-il-de-retour.html  “The Spirit of William Tell is Back!”

    Jeff also found SwissRespect.ch on Facebook:

    “Création : 19 avril 2012
    À : Genève.
    Après l’adhésion d’un nombre suffisant de partenaires, le groupe lancera un premier appel au travers de la Presse pour créer une association et étendre le mouvement. Nous tenons à rester apolitiques, même si nous regrettons que cette situation découle d’une attitude laxiste et timorée, de maladresses et d’un manque de vision politique de nos représentants pour clairement défendre les intérêts vitaux…”

  3. @nofatcat  Thanks for that link.  Although I fully agree with what Swiss Respect is trying to do, I think that everyone needs to be aware that Swiss banks have historically been good not just in Wealth Management, but also in Retail Banking.  I submitted a response to the link [pending moderation]:

    “Paraphrase of something said by the interviewee: [we are not good in banking, we are good in wealth management]  Maybe Switzerland excels in wealth management / private banking, however:

    Switzerland offers **great**retail**banking**services** as well as wealth management.  Service is quite good in Switzerland for bank customers of even modest means: e-banking platforms for retail customers as well as commercial customers are excellent.  Customers of retail banking in Switzerland are able to reach human beings that speak their language (except perhaps in certain banks when such customers are US Persons–including suspected dual-nationals). 

    My personal experience with US banks, especially in the past 15 years or so, is such that I feel that they are not good corporate citizens any more.  They treat their clients like doughnuts. 

    As to [german fiscal hell]:   Well, what about the fiscal hell of US Persons, who even if they hold Swiss or other nationality and live in their countries of second (or first) nationality, are at risk of being raked over the coals by the IRS because of the US double taxation and dual-reporting policy with all of the FATCA/FBAR “excessive fines” sanctions? 

    I hope that many will join with Swiss Respect in defending the sovereignty of the Swiss people and the independence of our beautiful country.”

  4. Is it possible to open a Swiss bank account as a non-resident non-“US person” (post-renunciation with CLN obviously) if you are not a millionaire, say minimum deposit CHF 50000, or is that such small change that they would laugh at that?

    **Note from JDT: It should be possible, but one would have to try on a case by case basis. Some banks in larger Swiss cities will ask if you live in their town (probably because plenty of folks try to open accounts just for the hell of it– i.e. just to brag that they have “Swiss Bank Account”). But if you tell them that you come frequently to the region and would like an account in Swiss Francs, they might accept you even if you are not a resident. I know of no Swiss law that would forbid such, even for much less than 50k

  5. I support SwissRespect 100%, it is something long overdue here in CH.  Just hope it is not too little too late.

    Just wondering if anyone at IBS has reached out formally to these guys to try to get some synergies going?

    I am all for giving them some CHF, but think they would benefit from linking up with some Canadians and perhaps others in the EU at a more policy level.

    Seems they plan on lauchnign a referendum/petition here, but that will take some time.

  6. @Don–yes, but it is getting harder and harder. US person, forget it. EU country in the process of negotiating a tax deal (i.e. Germany), more and more strings attached. All others, welcome.

  7. @nofatcat  I sent a message via the Swiss Respect website inviting them to visit IBS and indicating that I would make IBS aware (through this present thread as it turns out, in fact) of the existence of Swiss Respect. 

    As to formal synergy, I wonder if ACA has contacted them?

  9. Several days ago, I wrote SwissRespect via their website and received the following response.  My message to them appears at the bottom.  The person who responded gave permission to post their response, but wishes to remain anonymous and hence I have redacted any reference to them.

    Dear Sir,

    Thank you for your message below, which I’m answering on behalf of SwissRespect…[text removed to preserve anonymity of the individual]… I know the Isaac Brock blog well, follow it closely, and respect it totally. I’ve read your posts as well (thank you for the translations of certain Swiss articles!), and agree with everything you say. ACA in particular has been fighting for many years to try to get the US to change to a system of residence-based taxation instead of the current system based on citizenship.

    It does seem as if we’re heading towards some kind of a major crisis on both issues which are so heated right now, and which are tightly linked in many ways – FATCA and the specific US attack on Swiss banks which has been going on since the UBS scandal of several years ago.  

    I agree completely with you on the climate of fear and desperation now present in the community of overseas Americans, dual nationals, accidental Americans and green card holders.  The overreach of the IRS and the United States in general is simply destroying the community of Americans overseas, who are for the most part, as you know, hard-working patriotic Americans who support their country in many ways.

    And now, to make it even worse, this climate of fear and desperation has spread to somewhere around 10,000 Swiss employees of banks here in this country, who were merely doing their job, in total respect of Swiss law, and who are now afraid to set foot outside of the country for fear of the long and vindictive arm of American law.

    There are, however, glimmers of hope on both issues, thanks to organizations like SwissRespect and ACA, and the efforts of many people around the globe such as yourself as shown on the Isaac Brock Society blog.

    On FATCA, as you know well, the two glimmers of hope are that certain Senators have asked the IRS to undertake a cost-benefit analysis of the FATCA legislation (never done in spite of the major consequences in the US and abroad!!!), and the House has passed a bill which would prevent the IRS from collecting data on non-resident clients of US banks, which would be handed over to other countries.  Without this reciprocity, the five European countries who have signed so-called agreements with the US to implement FATCA will not provide info on US clients in their banks to the United States.

    On the Swiss issue of the US demanding that banks hand over extensive client and employee information to the US, and the Swiss government “authorizing” the banks to do so (I prefer quotation marks around that word since the act of providing the information broke several different Swiss laws !!!), there are now both civil and criminal complaints against the banks and against the Conseil Fédéral itself, and SwissRespect is firmly supporting efforts to encourage the Swiss government to stand up for Swiss law, Swiss sovereignty, and the protection of Swiss citizens.  

    We will continue to watch the Isaac Brock Society blog and we can only encourage you, and everyone who is a contributor there, to keep up the fight on these issues, which are all, in one way or another, related to the extra-territorial overreach of the United States.

    Thanks for your expression of support.

    Best regards,

    X.

    ______________

    Dear SwissRespect.ch: I just listened to the 8 August 2012 RTS Radio interview with Antoine Spielmann. http://www.rts.ch/audio/la-1ere/programmes/forum/4170924-qui-defend-encore-les-banques-suisses-08-08-2012.html I am a contributing author at the Isaac Brock Society (http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/14/about-the-isaac-brock-society/), an international Internet forum set up by current and former US Persons in Canada that discusses issues related to US citizenship, extraterritorial taxation, FATCA, FBAR, right to privacy, due process, as well as US threats to the national sovereignty of nations around the world (including, but not limited to, Switzerland and Canada). You might be interested in the discussions which took place at the Isaac Brock Society regarding the incompatibilities between the Swiss legal and constitutional framework and the sort of extraterritorial reporting and double tax regime that the USA has legislated and is trying to enforce by twisting the arms of our Federal Council and banks: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/01/27/the-us-tax-policy-fatca-fbar-in-suisse-website-the-embarrassment-of-the-united-states/#more-2033 http://stopunconstitutionaldoubletaxation.wordpress.com/open-letter-published-on-swiss-francophone-tv-site/ There have also been some discussions at Isaac Brock about the recent disclosure of employee data to US authorities: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/08/08/lawyer-warns-swiss-bankers-to-not-leave-switzerland/#comments http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/08/06/children-swiss-asset-manager-detained-for-six-hours-for-questioning-by-us-officials/ There are many people even of modest income and means in Switzerland (including Swiss citizens) and Swiss citizens living in the US, whose very existence is being threatened by account closures, double taxation, and life-changing FBAR / FATCA penalties, whether or not they pay income taxes in their country of residence. All around the world, “US Persons” (US citizens, dual nationals, and green card holders) as well as their family members are very concerned about what is happening. There is a climate of fear and desperation and people feel that they have been betrayed by both the US and their countries of residence. This causes emotional and health problems, as well as divorces and other family issues, and there are even rumors of suicides resulting from the general climate. Although I cannot personally contribute financially to the efforts of SwissRespect as my means are quite modest and I must remain anonymous for my own protection, I wanted to draw to your attention the existence of Isaac Brock, and invite your members to come and visit us. I will also be drawing the attention of our contributors and readers at Isaac Brock to the existence of SwissRespect.ch. It is refreshing finally to find an association in Switzerland that wants to organize the defense of our Swiss legal framework and the sovereignty of The Swiss people.
    Best Regards,
    Jefferson D. Tomás (Nom de Plume)

    Vous pouvez utiliser ce lien pour répondre : mailto:stopdoubletaxation@yahoo.fr?subject=RE:%20Message%20de%20%20(stopdoubletaxation@yahoo.fr)

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