[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB3RBxnn98g]
Emilio Largo: Stop it you fools! He’s got you shooting at each other – James Bond Thunderball
A long time ago, in the midst of another heated debates, that had it origins in the doctrine of political correctness, I suggested that:
What unite us is far greater than what divides us.
I think that might we worth remembering. Although we may not always agree, we are united in in opposition to:
– citizenship-based taxation;
– certain unfair elements of the Internal Revenue Code (for example PFICs);
– Mr. FBAR; and
– FATCA
and what these things collectively represent.
Furthermore, we are united in our opposition to the U.S. government. Now, some of us are busy “shooting at each other“. About what? Some people don’t like the nature of some of the posts, some of the rhetoric, etc. And somehow or other, that becomes a reason to leave. I have been watching the comment thread on the “I’m a moderate post” with the expectation that sooner or later somebody will articulate exactly what they find objectionable (the closest we have come is the Hitler video) and why. Those opposing specific posts and specific language never articulate:
1. What exactly they find objectionable.
2. Why they find it objectionable.
3. Why in the context of the broader issues, their finding specific posts or language objectionable, matters in the scheme of things.
Now, we are at the point where Petros (I assuming and hope he is not serious) is offering to step down as moderator. This is ridiculous. Leaving aside his other competencies, he appears to be willing preserve an environment of free speech and the free expression of ideas. The price we pay for freedom and innovation is that there will be ideas expressed and words used that some of us will find offensive. Once again, I am having trouble seeing how all of this matters.
A couple of days I offered a specific post to congratulate the Isaac Brock Society for reaching the 1000 post mark. I believe that the Isaac Brock Society (with the help of others) has created a critical mass of logic, reason, writing, support and awareness to eventually play a role in making a difference. But making a difference requires continued vigilance and support from contributors, commentators and readers. If you believe in the basic cause which is largely educational, then the worst thing that you can do is pack up your bags and leave. What then was the point? Worse, why pack up your bags without answering the three questions above?
On a personal level, there have been a number of times that I have been angered and offended by various comments on this board. But, so what? In life you will NEVER learn from people who agree with you. An enhancement of perspective is possible (I believe only if you are willing to allow your views to be tested by those who don’t agree with you and are willing to explain their position).
One final thought. I have thought about the comparison between the U.S. government and various rogue nations throughout history. It is worth remembering that the conditions for the final atrocities evolved slowly. The U.S. government is invading the sovereignty of other nations in various ways. This needs to be recognized by both governments and its citizens. Those citizens and governments can choose to respond as they see fit.
A couple examples of ethnic cleansing:
Few Jews and Christians now live in the Muslim countries, as they have nothing like equal rights in those countries. E.g., the Coptic Christians in Egypt may experience regular outbreaks of violence, but some prefer to stay in Egypt, even if they want to change a light bulb in their church they have to get a government permit. They don’t have equal rights so they have to leave. This has been a slow erosion of the Coptic identity in Egypt since the coming of Islam, but which has accelerated in the last few years.
Many Hugenots left France or were forced to convert to Catholicism. Not all were murdered, though some were (in the tens of thousands). Most just had to leave or renounce their Protestant faith by become Catholic.
In North America, First Nation people were put on reservations; in Canada they were forced to attend residential schools where their native languages were punished. This was a form of ethnic cleansing through assimilation and the destruction of the languages and cultures of First Nations. These devastating policies continue to have a negative legacy today. But it was not the result of murdering people, though it has led to a high incidence of suicide. (Not a few Brockers have mentioned suicidal tendencies as a result of US policies against them, which is essentially renders it imposible to live as equals in their countries of residence.)
As I thought, no one is arguing that mass rape, murder, and the burning of villages is or will take place. And ‘ethnic’ is clearly the wrong word here anyhow, this is a political / economic issue. You and I are surely different ethnicities.
The US is changing. Quite well diagramed in in those two articles Jefferson refers to. I think there are alot of parallels to the death throes of the Roman Republic (see Dan Carlin’s 8 hour podcast by that name). A republic, rotting within, an utterly corrupt legislature, a public relishing bread and circus (Rush Limbaugh anyone?) fitful attempts to exert control long beyond the borders, etc. etc. But the unconstutionality of Fatca is a part of a political and philosophical struggle over the American experiment. Freedom, the limits of government, etc. To hurl about ethnic cleansing hyberbole just takes attention away from the real issues.
@Bankei, perhaps you don’t have an English dictionary where you are. Here is an example of the definition of “ethnic” (Merriam Websters, emphasis mine): “of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background”.
Political economical issues are grave matters. Say for instance, the US government fines me 383% of my bank accounts. You say, well at least the US government didn’t kill you or rape you. It’s only an economical issue, and therefore, bah its not even serious. Your claims of having injustice perpetrated against you are completely exaggerated.
Well, I say that is not the case. Because if the government fines me 383% of savings, I have become a slave–because everything I’ve ever worked for now becomes the property of the United States of America. How is that different than the slavery that took place at the beginning of the country, where I might, if I were imported from Africa, work for a single owner all my life for very little compensation–I have nothing that I can own because my very person belongs to my white owner. The only difference is that if I submitted to this FBAR and extra-territorial tax oppression, I would be a slave not of a white owner, but I would be subject to the collective ownership of the United States Federal Government.
Slavery is serious injustice. Please stop downplaying the gravity of the injustice that is being perpetrated against US persons abroad. You and Steven Mopsick and a few others are seeking to undermine our fight for liberty and freedom. Why? I am not sure. But I think it has to do with a connection to the democrat party and an unwillingness to admit the grave injustices that have been committed against Americans abroad especially by the Obama administration.
And lest you say that I’m making a faux analogy about slavery, why don’t you ask our own recalcitrant expat what he thinks of the US treatment of expat slaves. My grandparents fled Korea because the whole nation was enslaved by Japan. That was, they became a protectorate of Japan, just as the United States wants to enforce its will upon the entire world and make Canada and other nations economic protectorates of the US.
Despite the Bush tax cuts, his regime nonetheless increased taxes on USPs abroad through changing the way tax was calculated after the FEIE is applied, as well as modifying the foreign housing allowances. The “You’re either with us or against us” attitude of the Bush administration is being used now by Obama’s to badmouth USP “FATCaT”s who balk at the draconian enforcement efforts of laws that were largely ignored by many for 30 years because they were prima facie stupid.
I like Petros’ comparison of indentured servitude (banned by the 13th amendment) to citizenship-based taxation of persons abroad. Citizenship-based taxation of bone fide residents abroad is like saying “we gave you a passport so you could travel abroad” (right guaranteed under the UDHR, by the way) “… so we’ve got your name, we’ve got your A**… until the day you die…even if you are Swiss or French or German, or Korean or whatever”.
383% of savings means that the typical tax slave will be working for the rest of his life to pay off the “debt” and will not be able to retire like everybody else. His social security will not cover his living expenses when he finally stops working and will have to ask for additional aid from the government of the country of his residence, or perhaps simply become a hobo or perish if such aid is not possible.
Then the government of the country says “why are all of these bloody Americans begging, squatting and living on welfare. We should round them up and deport them.” Oops, 90% are European citizens. Result: creation of another oppressed group, just like the Roma (who are European citizens, but who have been discriminated against and even massacured in recent times).
@Petros, the following sums up the situation in Switzerland:
Translation: It is mainly about ensuring that banks are not equally burdened, depending upon how involved they are in the US. Regional banks, for example, that have no US customers, will not be affected with the treaty. With these negotiations we are making progress.
So, basically, the Swiss and US governments are focusing on kicking out US persons from small banks, forcing them to only have accounts with banks that are heavily involved in the US.
Listen from minute 17
College bubble: Subprime crisis reloaded.
* ” Initially, despite the protestation of the faux commenter ‘Annoyed’ “
Faux commenter? That makes me feel really welcomed to keep coming to this site. Thanks Petros!
We just want this to stop now, please.