‘As mentioned in our call (bubblebusin’s husband), IRS is a budget issue, given the large amount of funds potentially payable to the US Government by Canadians; the effect on many self-employed people and entrepreneurs of compliance with these rules; and the damage to bilateral trade and commerce should the Americans make FBAR compliance and issue relevant to trans-border activity.
You may want to make a Pre-2013 Budget Submission to the Finance Committee, if only to get the matter onto their agenda.
Finance Committee of the House of Commons: Deadline-Aug 3, 2012 for initial submission (elaboration may be provided thereafter)
Go to the Finance Cttee website-“Pre-Budget Consultations”. Complete the 5 questions, which, among other things, advise the Committee how the proposed project may advance the Conservative Government’s priorities of the promoting economic growth and jobs.
http://www.parl.gc.ca/CommitteeBusiness/CommitteeHome.aspx?Cmte=FINA&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=41&Ses=1
Last year, the Finance Committee received over 400 submissions. Only 100 groups were invited to present. The proponents should clearly identify their interest in presenting their case to the Committee. A brief submission is more likely to be read than a long one. The deadline of Aug 3 is critical, even if more information has to be provided later-at least answer the 5 questions!
Should you proceed, John would back you up with a submission to the Minister of Finance in the Fall.’
If I am fortunate enough to have Mr Weston back me up with a submission made directly to the Minister of Finance, I would REALLY appreciate it if all Canadian Brockers help me craft something that best expresses our concerns.
Please use the link to the questions, and post here any comments that would be relevant to any of the questions.
Petros: You could apply to make a Brock submission!
I could lend you my uniform. I would offer to lend you my sword, except I don’t think it would be allowed in Parliament–even if you are Isaac Brock reincarnated!
If I am fortunate enough to have Mr Weston back me up with a submission made directly to the Minister of Finance, I would REALLY appreciate it if all Canadian Brockers help me craft something that best expresses our concerns.
Please use the link to the questions, and post here any comments that would be relevant to any of the questions.
@bubblebustin I would agree that you need as many Canadian Brockers as you can get to help you write something, but I think that all Brockers and friends (USPs abroad) could also write him directly. We may not be his “constituants” but as an MP in a democratic nation, he should be a champion of democracy, due process, protection against arbitrary and discriminatory treatment everywhere. After all, we do not have proportional representation in Congress, and it seems that only 5-6% of US citizens abroad actually cast a vote, whether because of legal and/or logistical constraints. Those of us overseas are facing the same sorts of issues that Canadian Brockers face. If Canada takes decisive action to ensure that only territorial taxation is enforced in Canada, this would be a major precendent for other sovereign nations.
Canada, like Switzerland, has become the front line of the contraversy over worldwide taxation.
@Bubblebustin, just to be clear, are you asking that we answer the questions using the link, or use the questions to craft replies to post here? I think it’s the latter, but wasn’t quite sure. Do you think to be invited to ‘present’ there must be a group with some sort of official status, or could you present, as representing the Isaac Brock Society?
@outraged and all,
My husband initially received a call yesterday from John’s assistant encouraging us to make a pre-2013 budget submission. Not all here at Brock may be aware that Minister Flaherty has made John point man for issues concerning US persons in Canada and that John used my husband’s and my case as his ‘exhibit’ in Parliament. My husband has expressed concern about how FATCA and IRS intrusions into Canada would effect his business (he has a small Canadian service company operating in Canada and often requires international funds wired via the US). I don’t wish to make a submission on behalf of Brock per se, but as one representing the million US persons like me in Canada and those who’ve learned they still have obligations to the IRS. If we have a better chance of being heard because of John’s help I would like to make the submission as strong as I can. That’s why I’m making an appeal to others at Brock for help. Of course you all (Canadians and non-Canadians alike) can make your own submissions, and I encourage you to do so. But if John’s involvement can increase the chance of any particular submission becoming highlighted, I need one that addresses as many of our concerns as possible. Frankly, I can’t do this alone and I don’t want to blow this opportunity to express our opinions on which federal measures need to be taken to benefit us and other Canadians.
The pre-budget survey requires, at a minimum, 5 questions be answered. The survey can be found through the link I provided. If anyone would like to help me with my submission I ask that you address any, or all questions as they relate to US policy and its effect on Canada’s economic stability and post your remarks on this thread.
John’s assistant left me her cel number if I have any questions, and I would be happy to field your questions to her, or you can email their office at john.weston.c1d@parl.gc.ca. So many of you have done such a terrific job explaining how US policy is damaging to Canadians, I would be in your debt if you would allow me to convey your words is such a manner to the Canadian government.
*I will writeup something along the lines of answering the five questions later this weekend. Hopefully I will provide some good ideas for people to make their own individual submissions. Basically I will try to answer all five question in a way that relates to the issues at IBS.
@Tim,
Thank you. From all you contribute here, I’m sure you have the skills to come up with an excellent submission by answering the questions and have something others of us can draw upon for our own submissions. Your generosity is appreciated.
@tim
This is just what I was hoping for 🙂
*I put out some highly technical questions to several people who know more about US tax law than I do about how exactly the Government of Canada could demand through tax treaty negotiations an end to citizenship based taxation. That will be a big part of my proposed response.
@tim
It would be valuable to explore how the US policy of taxing its citizens abroad may in the long run cost the Canadian government more than if the Canadian government were to invest in negotiating an end to citizenship based taxation now, if in fact it could be achieved through treaty negotiations.
If anyone is having problems opening the pdf file here are the questions. (I had to use a different browser than my usual one.) Sorry if I made any typos transcribing this.
SURVEY QUESTIONS FOR PRE-BUDGET CONSULTATIONS 2012
1. Economic Recovery and Growth
Given the current climate of federal and global fiscal restraint, what specific federal measures do you feel are needed for sustained economic recovery and enhanced economic growth in Canada?
2. Job Creation
As Canadian companies face pressures resulting from such factors as uncertainty about the U.S. economic recovery, a sovereign debt crisis in Europe, and competition from a number of developed and developing countries, what specific federal actions do you believe should be taken to promote job creation in Canada, including that which occurs as a result of enhanced internal and international trade?
3. Demographic Change
What specific federal measures do you think should be implemented to help the country address the consequences of, and challenges associated with, the aging of the Canadian population and of skills shortages?
4. Productivity
With labour market challenges arising in part as a result of the aging of Canada’s population and an ongoing focus on the actions needed for competitiveness, what specific federal initiatives are needed in order to increase productivity in Canada?
5. Other Challenges
With some Canadian individuals, businesses and communities facing particular challenges at this time, in your view, who is facing the most challenges, what are the challenges that are being faced and what specific federal actions are needed to address these challenges?
@Em, thanks for taking this step out, making it easier for everyone to access the survey.
*There are a couple of issues I am centering on:
1. The treaty is actually fairly old at this point although there have been some more recent amendments.
2. There is very little explanation or justification from the Canadian side in terms of why they have “gone along” with the US on citizenship based taxation all these years.
3. Canada has perhaps been too focused on limiting the burden of the US estate tax to Canadian residents with property in the US given the investment alternatives elsewhere in the world.
#2 is really important. I am having a really hard time coming up with any type of documents on this front.
A few suggestions:
(1) Canada must withdraw from the US-Canada tax convention and renegotiate it to create reciprocity between the two nations. Through its “Last in Time Rule”, United States has already explicitly violated the treaty both in letter and spirit (to prevent double taxation), with the result that the treaty is no longer worth the paper it’s written on.
(2) Canada should insist that the United States inform Canada how much tax revenue is being collected from Canadian sources from Canadian residents. In a new treaty, if ever such a new monstrosity would be created, Canada should insist that purely Canadian income of Canadian residents be completely hands-off to the United States.
(3) Parliament should create a commission which would study the negative effects of US taxation of Canadian residents and create various means of reciprocity: for example, a special punitive taxes on the Canadian divisions of American companies active in Canada such as: Walmart, Target, Sears, Home Depot, Taco Bell, McDonalds, Burger King, H&R Block. Retaliation against Canadian companies will result in actions in kind against American companies in Canada.
(4) Parliament should forbid the implementation of FATCA, enacting substantial fines against banks for revealing account information to the IRS or other foreign tax agency. FATCA is a Trojan Horse for American exploitation of Canadian residents who have some incidental status as Americans. The plan is to implement 50% fines against all Canadian residents with Canadian bank accounts with alleged US status who have not filed FBAR. This is the explicit statement of the IRS in its threats in OVDP FAQ. The 30% withholding of US source income is a small price to pay for the protection of Canadian source income of Canadian residents!
(5) Canada should use its seat at the United Nations General Assembly to denounce United States extra-territorial taxation as a violation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and as a violation of the sovereign rights of other nations to have exclusive rights to tax within their own borders. Recent acts by the Obama administration to crack down on US citizens abroad is a tantamount to an act of war against the countries where US citizens abroad reside. The United States needs to back off of its citizens abroad.
@Petros
It most certainly is an act of war. Can’t understand why people don’t see this. By the time they wake up to this reality, it may be too late.
I think that the lawyers, like our own Steven Mopsick, believe that if the law requires an action, it can’t be an act of war against another country. This is the “rule of law” which Stephen Dunn wrote about. Yet the rule of laws written by thugs is tyranny.
Philosophers distinguish between natural law and positive law. “Rule of law” applies to the reign of natural law not positive law. I remember reading once that Pierre Trudeau wanted to do something that was wrong. When challenged that his intention was against the law, Trudeauy then said, “Well then, we shall change the law to make it legal!” The article I was reading said that Trudeau didn’t understand that something is not right just because a law was created to make it legal. An action can be wrong because it is wrong.
FBAR, FATCA, extra-territorial taxation, and the tyranny of the United States against its expats is perfectly legal acts of war against the sovereign states in which the expats reside. Hence, they cannot see it because (1) they’ve lost all perspective on world history–such acts have always been seen as a tribute and the oppression of the weak by the strong. (2) They’ve lost an understanding of the basis of natural law. Some things are wrong because they violate the natural order of world. Stealing for example.
*I have not at all forgotten about this and am currently awaiting feedback from several people I have reached out to. We may have a text of a FATCA intergovernmental agreement before the August 3rd submission deadline too.
@Tim. Awesome.
@Brockers, how can the Canadian government best allocate Canadian tax dollars in protecting all Canadians from the extra-territorial reach of the US?
How about providing funding to Isaac Brock Society to create documentaries on the subject US extra-territorial taxation and its potential impact on Canada? We could probably produce a decent film if we had adequate funding. Imagine if we could produce something like what National Inflation Association has done on the End of Liberty, but in our case we could produce a documentary on the US tax jihad:
It is remarkably easy to use a regular digital camera to produce a video that can be uploaded to YouTube.
That’s a great idea, I know some directors and camera men, but I think we’d better go to the National Film Board for a grant for that. The Finance Committee preparing the next federal budget needs to know what priorities need funding. Maybe the feds should start a program that provides loans or grants to US persons who wish to get good with the IRS with the agreement that they will ultimately renounce US citizenship?
@bubblebustin, Better than giving Americans money to pay to get into compliance would be to make fund available to sue the United States in court (international, Canadian, US?) every time it bashes the head of an American with a great whacking tax bill. If we had funds from the Canadian government, we could litigate our way out of this mess.
@bubblebustin: I don’t think Canadian tax dollars should be spent protecting us from IRS.
I think Canadian government needs to make it clear to both Canadians and to IRS that:
Canadian banks must comply with Canadian law. Canadian laws will not be changed to accommodate the financial demands of a foreign country.
I know some think I am cynical for believing that. Others think I am naive. I think I’m being practical.
We don’t need more complicated or expensive programs. We just need to adhere to Canada’s existing laws and Charter. End of story.
I’m going to quote you on that, Blaze.