Cross posted from RenounceUScitizenhip
The following video is of particular interest.
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Where it came from – 2009 – Obama describes his justification for what is to become FATCA
Obama Goes After Overseas Tax Cheats AKA U.S. Citizens Abroad – See the following video which was uploaded in May 2009. Obama says taxes are an obligation of “citizenship“. Obama lauds the work of Levin and Rangel (at this point they are the future architects of FATCA). The whole video (where “First Tax Cheat Geithner” introduces Obama) is interesting. Note in particular the video starting at 7:30 where Obama provides his justification for what is to become FATCA.
How it came about – 2010 – The Hire Act (which included FATCA) was enacted.
It is important to note that FATCA was legislation which was unrelated to the principal purpose of the Hire Act. It was “slipped in” at the last minute. It is likely that few legislators knew what they were signing when FATCA was signed into law. FATCA was “Trojan Horse” legislation at its finest. But, FATCA is many other things including:
FATCA is a creator of jobs
FATCA has created new and lucrative work for accountants and lawyers. (An NYU tax professor recently referred to FATCA as “The gift that keeps on giving“.) It has been a boon to the education industry – it will be soon be possible to receive a certification in FATCA compliance.
FATCA is a form of Capital Control
President Kennedy said that the U.S. government has never had to erect a wall to keep our people in. That was then. This is now.
FATCA is an attack on the sovereignty of other nations
Why should foreign banks do what the IRS wants?
FATCA – through Form 8938 – is an attack on U.S. citizens living abroad
This is the primary purpose of this post.
FATCA needs to be understood as legislation which is aimed at foreign financial institutions and U.S. persons with foreign assets. Almost all of the FATCA discussion has been about the effect of FATCA on foreign financial institutions. Form 8938 is the part of FATCA aimed at U.S. persons. It has received very little analysis until now. FATCA mandates form 8938 which allows the U.S. government to impose massive penalties and force people to disclose their assets to the government.
What it means – FATCA Form 8938: – Form Nation’s most deadly and profitable form – An Analysis
FBAR Scholar Hale Sheppard has written a comprehensive article on FATCA Form 8938 and what it means for U.S. citizens living abroad. The reasons why this article are important have been well articulated by Just Me. You will find the article on the ACA site. The following comment about Mr. Sheppard’s analysis is deserving of a post on its own:
Bless you @Just Me for making this available to us.
The Hale Sheppard article is well worth reading. He makes the complexities more comprehensible (though still hard for the layperson to fully grasp) and explains the size of the jeopardy – even for inadvertent errors – very clearly. If this isn’t killing an international taxpayer gnat with a ton weight, then it is hard to see how it could get worse – short of just summarily executing any US citizen abroad and seizing their entire assets like a despot might. Basically, after you read this, to me, (if you were in any doubt at all still up to now), the hazard of remaining a US citizen and living abroad is unsupportable. The hazards that 8938 imposes so far exceed that of the FBAR, and it looks so much more intricate in its design, that there will no doubt be many many more innocents caught unaware, taxpayer and preparer alike – which the IRS and Congress and the GAO are very well aware of (and Sheppard notes). They have deliberately chosen not to do anything about it, even in the face of professional feedback alerting them to the substantial risks that have been created for those required to file it, and their preparers.
It is so far in the opposite direction of what the Taxpayer Advocate has advised in terms of complexity and making compliance readily achievable for the average person. No talk of the tax code being tackled for reform will probably ever touch this one – as it is designed for maximum penalty revenue generation – and the provisions allow the IRS to take away any safeguards that may even usually exist in terms of SOL, etc. The penalties are layered, draconian and confiscatory. And, again, this is entirely the case without any actual US tax assessed or owed. The assets reported and penalized are – just like the FBARs, entirely post-tax, legal and most often may have zero US source or connection. So the damage will be done to the innocent and the otherwise compliant, and recourse is either not available, or would come with such complexity and cost as to completely obliterate an individual and their household – a thousand times more in scale than what we currently face. Sheppard notes that not only would any attempt at any recourse require considerable money and time to mount a defense, but that it would involve several venues – not just Tax court.
The US has gone utterly insane, and there is no recourse but to remove oneself. Imagine an annual government mandated lottery, where every year, you are forced to participate in a ritual imposed by a despot far far away, and you can never know what they will do to make the jeopardy harder and harder to avoid, (often to be applied retroactively), even if you are trying to follow the rules and be compliant. Any normal life event – operating a business, getting a loan or mortgage, inheriting from family, etc. could tip you over the reporting threshold – especially as with age, if lucky, your wages, and savings increased – even slowly. The peak of the jeopardy will come when you are a senior, and have less ability to cope with your own affairs, and the most savings at stake. So, eventually someone else might also be exposed to the jeopardy – on your behalf. If you’re both deemed US taxable persons – that is two or more people at direct risk, plus both family’s assets. Don’t even understand how this affects even modest estates, but it can’t possibly be good.
After you read this article – and see the many sources Sheppard had to consult to put this together, ask yourself, what sane individuals could possibly think that those of us abroad can fully comprehend these rules, and comply without error? There will no doubt be additional complexity and contradictions added as time goes on, and the reporting thresholds could be lowered at any time if Congress so chooses.
Given too that the situation of the non-US spouse is jeopardized when the US taxable person is jeopardized, that makes joint assets even more at risk. And even if there weren’t joint assets, a life-altering debt for one is a life-altering debt for the whole household. Again, all this is the case without even one cent of US tax actually owed – on already taxed assets – reported in full to the countries where we live.
No US citizen resident faces this scale of reporting and jeopardy.
I encourage you to read Mr. Sheppards’s analysis and then see if you agree with the above comment. I suggest:
1. There will be no possibility of being compliant without engaging expensive “cross border professionals“. U.S. citizenship is now impossibly expensive to retain.
2. There will be fewer and fewer cross border professionals who will even be willing to risk being involved in all this.
3. The IRS is requiring that tax preparers be licensed which will also reduce the number of U.S. tax preparers.
4. Those professionals who will take this work on will become more and more expensive. Many of you will simply not have the money to remain compliant even if you wanted to.
5. My belief is that the “end game” is to compile a registry of the assets of U.S citizens abroad and then confiscate them or their value (or what is left after the penalties have been levied).
6. In my opinion, you should renounce your U.S. citizenship at the earliest opportunity. It’s no wonder that renunciations are soaring under the Obama administration.
As I write this, I wonder how this can even be happening. The U.S. government has launched a vicious, unprovoked and unprincipled attack on U.S. citizens abroad. Why? I simply can’t understand it.
Some of these sentiments captured as tweets:
#FATCA Form 8938: “The ONLY reasonable option available to U.S. citizens abroad is to renounce and renounce quickly.” isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/07/14/fat…
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) July 15, 2012
@aaforobama #FATCA Form 8938: “No US citizen resident faces this scale of reporting and jeopardy.” Even @demsabroad should vote Romney.
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) July 15, 2012
@aaforobama #FATCA Form 8938: “The US has gone utterly insane, and there is no recourse but to remove oneself.” isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/07/14/fat… #FBAR
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) July 15, 2012
#FATCA Form 8938: The assets reported and penalized arepost-tax, legal andmay have zero US source or connection. isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/07/14/fat…
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) July 15, 2012
In closing …
Good news for Obama?
http://www.diasporamessenger.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=628:tax-amnesty-for-kenyans-in-the-diaspora&lang=en
Obama is really proud of this, he considers it a great accomplishment. That’s why he has this elaborate presentation with Geitner.
He says “Americans illegally hiding income and wealth offshore”. How do you illegally hide wealth offshore in 2010? Even now there is no law against that, they just want to force you to list anything that is worth anything.
Obama’s entire “share the wealth” flare up with Joe the Plumber during his 2008 campaign was all anybody with a little sense needed to see to realize what his agenda was going to be.
Well you expat Obama supporters, looks like you will one of the privileged few who will be able to put your money where your mouth is. You have been selected to share your wealth like Obama expected Joe the Plumber to! Your sacrifice in the name of “change we can believe in” will duly be noted by the party leadership. And the rest of us who have been stripped of our financial privacy by this blatant marxist you elected salute you!
Just to clarify, the “good news for Obama” refers to the article in the link that I posted, not the main article above. The article in the link reports that Kenya is offering a tax amnesty to its citizens who work abroad. My comment was a joke based on the claim by some people that Obama could have Kenyan citizenship.
@ShadowRaider;
Everyone should read the article you linked to re: ‘Good news for Obama? It goes on to talk about a tax amnesty, and the problems of harnessing the good will and investments of Kenyans who have gone abroad and not returned! Someone should write Obama and tell him. Maybe it deserves a thread of its own!
http://www.diasporamessenger.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=628:tax-amnesty-for-kenyans-in-the-diaspora&lang=en‘
Thursday, 30 June 2011 13:36
Tax Amnesty for Kenyans in the Diaspora
Written by
Administrator
………..”Kenyan courts, in interpreting that definition have also taken a very
aggressive stance. For instance, presence in Kenya would include
over-flying the Kenyan airspace. One is deemed to have a permanent home
in Kenya if he was born in Kenya and there is no need to demonstrate the
possession or presence of a physical home.
Such an aggressive stance fails to recognise there are two types of
Kenyan Diasporas. Foremost, there are Kenyans who relocated from Kenya
without the intention to return. They have taken up residence and even
citizenship in other countries.
Secondly, there are Kenyans who left temporarily for employment reasons –
either a foreign job or a secondment to another country. Thus our tax
laws need to recognise the above scenario.
Kenyans who are not “ordinarily resident” in Kenya are essentially like
foreigners who come to tour Kenya. To demand that they pay taxes would
be akin to asking tourists and foreign investors coming to Kenya to pay
income tax.
As Kenya becomes more economical and politically mature, a number of the
Kenyan diasporas have invested heavily in Kenya and are considering
permanently relocating to Kenya. If they return then they will become
“ordinarily resident” in Kenya and will pay their taxes.
Until then, any attempt to loop them into the tax net might be a huge
disincentive to invest and return to Kenya. Clearly no one would wish to
return to Kenya permanently or on short visit, if there is a risk of
trouble with KRA.”…….
@confederationH, and I think we can ALL thank dubya for preparing the soil from which this seed could sprout.
@Eric
Well, maybe the narrative of Eritrea as being the only country that taxes its diaspora may be wrong. I am pretty sure North Korea does, and this indicates that Burma was, and that Kenyan Tax kinda looks like a duck, so we probably should investigate more. We all do tend to repeat things we hear, just like Axelrod repeats that there is $100 billion a year lost to offshore tax shelters, even though that number apparently was just picked out of the air by some Congressional Staffer and then endlessly repeated as fact.
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