Former Pennsylvania police officer officer, Larry Hohol, has produced a video which exposes corruption in State of Pennsylvania regarding the case of New Yorker Robert Leone.
My plea with those who are planning to visit the United State that you realize that there are far greater risks with that country than just simply your fear of the IRS. The corruption is becoming systemic. At the end of the video, Mr. Hohol compares Pennsylvania to a Third World country. I laughed with bitter chagrin when he said that. Does anyone here believe that the United States isn’t already a police state?
[As a concession to Just Me’s being startled by the graphic photo of Robert Leone, I’ve moved the embed of the youtube video to after the “read more” click; Warning the video is somewhat graphic and violent, and the material may shock your pro-American sensibilities]
My one comment is can we send RCMP Sergeant Donald Ray down to the US as part of some type of “exchange” program.
http://www.canada.com/news/RCMP+officer+sexual+antics+with+female+colleagues+enough+fired/6666487/story.html
http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Mountie+with+history+sexual+misconduct+will+closely+monitored+RCMP+says/6674414/story.html
@Tim, Sounds like he belongs down there. But if Donald Ray were a Pennsylvania police officer, the women who accused him of sexual harassment would be sitting in jail; the equivalent of the District of Attorney would have charged them with prostitution, soliciting sex for money in the work place, and a numerous other charges (prob. obstruction of justice [cf. Martha Stuart, Conrad Black], conspiracy and mail fraud).
Instead Ray gets transfered and reprimanded. He’s not fired. Too bad, but at least some kind of discipline is going on. If that’s the worst that a Canadian police officer has ever done, then I’m glad to be living here. Probably the extraordinary rendition of Maher Arar was much worse, but then, (1) the RCMP was only complicit with what the US was doing–it was actually the US that “deported” him to Syria; (2) Canada apologized and paid him damages. Again, I’d rather be Maher Arar than Robert Leone.
I’m sure bad things like this happen in every country. Please name some more examples of this happening in the elite, free countries of the world.
@Petros
I agree totally. The main difference between the US and Canadian judicial systems is the responsbility for prosecuting crimes is de-politicized to a much greater extent. At the surface this does not appear so as for example in Ontario the attorney general/justice minister is appointed by the premier and is the member of provincial cabinet however, the Ontario Attorney General unlike in the US really doesn’t have that much to do with prosecuting criminal activity on a day to day basis. Being Attorney General/Justice Minister also Canada is almost never a stepping stone to higher office. I for one cannot name the Ontario Attorney General off the top of my head and you know I know a lot of things but not that one.(It will take my five seconds to look it up though). In Canada the traditional pattern is to more from Finance Minister to Prime Minister/Premier in the US its local DA to state Attorney General to Governor.
I actually forgot for a second Jim Flaherty was once Attorney General of Ontario and served for several years in the position. So much for “prosecutorial” “solidarity”.
This used to be Flaherty’s old office address I found out on the web back from the 1990s
The Honourable Jim Flaherty
Attorney General
Ministry of the Attorney
General
720 Bay
Street, 11th Floor
Toronto, ON
M5G 2K1
*This is on the subject of this forum? What is the desired end result?
No doubt there are issues, serious issues, but which issue is moving forward in this discussion?
Is this discussion encouraging new US-person participants from outside of Canada?
By the way, I was threatened with assault last Thursday in Oslo—this coupled with Anders Breivik could be used to show that that country is sh_t also–if that is what one wants to persuade others to believe. But I would rather focus on excessive Norwegian parking and speeding tickets and movable no-parking signs—which is the real police brutality there.
@ Petros
You are preaching to the choir. I think most here already recognize the US as a police state (living abroad does funny things to your perspective of the mother country). The real issue is whether homelanders — the only ones who can really change the system — realize this. After all those years in state-sponsored schools, most are unfortunately too inebriated from the Kool Aid to stand up (for their rights). In other words, it’s all about panem et circenses.
Also, government is no longer there to merely encourage commerce and get out of your way (as during that mythical time no one today remembers or lived through). It is there to stick its nose in your daily business, tell you how to run your life, and extract its pound of flesh no matter where you live. Woe to those who try to resist.
@Mark Twain, It is definitely within the scope of this forum to speak about the arrogant abuse of power in the United States, precisely because most of us have become victims. Why wouldn’t it be on subject?
The people on this forum have been shell-shocked with threats to their financial well-being, up to 383% of their financial wealth. Examples of the loss of true freedom in the United States is integrally related to the problems that we are facing when abuse of freedom becomes a daily experience to Americans in the country.
Thanks for that great post Petros!
@17:50 “You’re going to be somebody’s fucking butt fuck inside”
I wonder if Mr Mopsick ever used that threat when trying to get a tax “cheat” to incriminate himself or to even accept a “deal”?
I spent 2 weeks in jail for a minor drug conviction in 1977. I still remember the cocky arrogance of the arresting officers, and I remember the feeling of hopelessness inside. I grovelled and peed myself when ordered to and managed to survive the experience unscarred. At least I though I had until my last trip to the US when the INS computers pulled this in based on my fingerprint, and now I am a US exile.
If anything the video shows yet another example of the increasing arrogance of the Praetorian Class (police + military). I heard that, before my time, police were broadly respectful of citizens and preferred to leave you alone unless you were a known troublemaker. Nowadays, police are broadly suspicious of everyone they don’t know and are proactive in singling people out or luring them for punishment and fines, since their pay is increasingly linked to the number of tickets they write. The relationship between citizens and police has now changed to the point where civilians are now regarded as a kind of subclass by the police, who love to instill fear in them. It is vitally important for members of a superior class to control members of a subclass, in order to retain their superiority. So now for example, police are walking around upgunned and uparmored with an increasingly military attitude.
The video shows this – Robert Leone didn’t stop when the police told him too. In other words, he’s not a citizen in the traditional sense who may have misunderstood police orders because of his illness. To the police, he’s just a chump who didn’t show the proper respect that the Praetorian Class is due… and therefore had to be taught a lesson and made an example of to scare the rest of the population. Plus it must have been a heck of a boring night on those Pennsylvania backroads.
@Mark Twain, also, I wanted to mention that I do posts like this one in order to counter people like Stephen Dunn who says that the United States is the light of the world:
Sorry, stories like this make one glad to be living abroad and even gladder to have relinquished US citizenship. Like Russ Hunt, I dread now the day I ever have to go back. “Rule of law” means that Robert Leone shouldn’t be in prison but the people who put him there should be. “Rule of law” means that the people who put Bernie Madoff should also be in prison (the one’s running the biggest ponzi scheme in the world known as Social Security). Incidents like what happened to Robert Leone belie the rhetoric that the United States is the greatest place in the world; it shows that the United States is no better than Tony Soprono, a big brute expecting taxes from people who live in other countries.
*I believe that we are losing our focus.
This is sad. Unfortunately, my first and only court experience was like this too where the state defended their own. An attorney committed outright fraud against a relative’s estate, in which he overcharged the estate by 10x on claimed expenses–and this was proven in the written documents–and the judge simply gave him a complete pass. They’re probably golf buddies.
The judicial system in the US does not work for the people anymore. The state works for the state and its agents.
And yes, I agree with you Petros, the US police state is relevant for the site so long as it doesn’t lose its primary focus.
@Michael, One of the things that I’ve argued is that it is impossible for a citizen abroad to get a fair trial. Consider this: I went to Washington D. C. to face FBAR criminal charges–me a former American who hasn’t lived in the US for 26 years. I would face a hostile jury that believes that I am a tax evader (why else would I live overseas?). The jury in the meantime is mostly made up of federal employees or other people who depend on the federal government. They would hang me.
Robert Leone was found guilty by Pennsylvania jury. At least the alleged actions he committed took place in the state of Pennsylvania. But if he can’t get a fair trial, because the system was rigged against him, how much more one of us? While the system might not be rigged, the jury would be not be impartial, and it would not be made up of our peers. It would be made up of people who depend on the government that would be charging me with a crime. How would they try me for FBAR? I opened my accounts in Ontario. Do they have jurisdiction because they own my ass? Or is this just simply overreach? A DC trial would violate my Sixth Amendment rights. If a trial occurred here in Ontario where the alleged crime took place, at least I’d have a chance at acquittal.
@Markpinetree, You are looking for the United States to be fair and just. You’ve always believed it to be so. And maybe that was the case years ago, when you went there from Brazil and became a citizen. But today, I think you will see many cases like the one above, where those in authority abuse their power. Consider e.g. the many cases of TSA abuse at airports and you realize that such incidents are becoming a rampant problem. Or how about the federal raid on Gibson guitar? The corruption goes all the way to the top to the Attorney General and the President, as can be seen by the Congress charging Eric Holder with contempt, and the President’s claiming executive privilege with regard to the Fast and Furious scandal over a program of selling weapons to Mexican drug dealers that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Mexicans and some US officers as well.
My question is why anyone would think that such corruption is limited to Third World countries? This is happening right in front of everyone, and the stench
risescomes down fromall the way tothe office of the POTUS.I’m not justifying what happened to Robert Leone, Rodney King or anyone else.
But, before we Canadians become too smug, let’s not forget Robert Dzikenkaski, the Polish man on his way to visit his mother when he was Tasered by RCMP in the Vancouver airport because of his erratic behaviour. Dziekenkaski died. The only reason it wasn’t swept under the carpet was because another passenger in the airport caught it on his cell phone video.
Remember Adam Nobody, who was beaten my police officers at the G20 last year? Or Emomotim Azorbo, the deaf Nigerian immigrant arrested because he didn’t hear officers’ orders to stand back. He was then denied access to sign language interpreters in his detention.
Finally, how can anyone forget Officer Bubbles? Officer Bubbles later tried to sue You Tube for allowing the video to be posted of him threatening a young protester who was blowing bubbles. He has since dropped his law suit.
@Petros:
Several years ago I worked on an international project for Sarbanes Oxley compliance. The initial development went on for a few years and there were 2 nigerians on our team. They were loads of fun and would always insist that Switzerland was just as corrupt as Nigeria and they were constantly coming up with examples. Back then I always poo-poo’d their arguments. Now I wish I had been paying more attention.
I thought the Isaac Brock Society was about the IRS / FBAR / FATCA idiocy. If the topic is to be expanded to “everything bad that is happening or ever happened in the USA, no matter who did it” I think it will lose its focus.
In effect, the Isaac Brock Society will degenerate into just a bunch of cranks. After all, bad things and injustices happen other places too.
Please stay on focus. If we just complain indiscriminately about various things, we won’t manage to get our main message across.
@Blaze, Are we Canadians being smug?
I actually don’t think that any of the Canadian cases you mention at the same level of utter corruption of what we see in the Leone video. Even the sad case of the Robert Dzikenkaski is not really comparable, except that the taser, which is supposed to be “safe”, killed the him. The final inquiry said that they used a reasonable amount of force under the circumstances) (See: http://www.cbc.ca/bc/news/bc-081212-criminal-justice-branch-statement.pdf ). Larry Hohol’s point is that the DA and internal affairs are as much to blame as the officers. The whole system stinks.
I’ve heard that the United States can accuse anyone of terrorism, detain them and throw out the key, denying habeas corpus. Apparently, Pennsylvania doesn’t even need the accusation of terrorism to do the same.
@Sally, So you think I don’t need to be afraid that these nut cases in the United States are going to arrest me, beat me and throw me in prison, because I haven’t filed my FBARs? Or worse, because I am the ringleader of the Isaac Brock Society?
@Petros, it could of course happen, but I think it is unlikely. It is more likely that you (or I) will be in a traffic accident or get mugged by a common criminal. Or we could fall prey to our own furniture (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/americans-are-as-likely-to-be-killed-by-their-own-furniture-as-by-terrorism/258156/)
Of course if you want to get mistreated, you could give the cops some sass. (Never a good idea, no matter where you are. They are unlikely to beat you, but they often find a way to make sure you regret it. Not liking “sass” is pretty universal in those who think they have authority over you, not just in America.)
@Sally, I’m trying to explain why I see this post regarding Robert Leone is related to our issues at Isaac Brock. I am a normal sort of guy, not high income, but I am charged with the protection of my family. The biggest threat to my family is the IRS, which has threatened me with 385% of my wealth in the form of FBAR fines–and that’s just the civil penalties, we haven’t started with the criminal penalties. I’ve decided that I cannot comply with their demands for information, because I must put my Canadian family first.
Now, I fear repraisal. Because I’m a ringleader here at the Isaac Brock Society. What other charges could I be held for? As the video says, make up for quality of charges with a large number of accusations. Probably, conspiracy, mail fraud, obstruction of justice, and any number of other crimes nobody except our esteemed federal lawyers are aware of–oh, I could also add frivilous return, false returns and criminal tax evasion, to start with–all that on top of multiple counts of wilful FBAR violations–inciting others to evade taxes (that has to be crime, right?).
Now, I fear going to the United States. In Canada I should be ok because of the promises of the Canadian government. But if I step foot in the United States, it’s game over. I’d have to plead that it is a diplomatic incident, but the damn tattoo on my butt says that Canada will plead the non-interference doctrine. So I can’t go home. Think about that. The United States has become a police state, and Petros can’t go home, or at least, he’s afraid that if he crosses the border, he’ll be arrested. Can you be sure that I will get better treatment than Robert Leone? Tell me again that posting on this video is going to give the Isaac Brock Society the reputation of being a bunch of cranks. Why does Schumer want to ban Saverin from the United States again? because he renounced his citizenship? Well, my name is also all over the papers in the US too. Do you still think it is safe for me to go to the United States?
@Petros–Equating police brutality to the IRS’ and Congress’ treatment of present and former US persons living outside the US is quite a far stretch. Its is such a far stretch that it sounds implausible and thus dilutes our message.
Its true that both are unfair, but the mechanisms or motives behind them are different. Combatting one has no effect on the other. Senators Schumer, Levine and Grassley are pulling the populist card, trying to garner votes by creating and fighting an imaginary threat. The IRS brass originally just had no clue and wants to look tough going after “crooks”. (In early 2010 the IRS people charged with going after us supposed “offshore banking crooks” could not even make phone calls outside the US and Canada! Their phones didn’t work outside country code +1. They must have really thought they were after people resident in the US.) Unfortunately the IRS didn’t catch those whales in the US, so they tried to make do with minnows living abroad. They’re trying to avoid admitting failure and having to tell Congress that Congress is stupid.
The police brutality appears to be a result of misjudgment after a highway chase and resisting arrest and “odd” behavior on the part of Mr. Leone.
In the case of the police, the proper remedy would be better training of the police.
It is unlikely that “training” could be applied to the IRS brass or politicians. The only hope there is making the absurdity of their actions public, so they would have a disincentive in continuing.
It my (never humble) opinion, equating police brutality to the foolishness of the IRS brass and the politicians is counterproductive because it makes us look like cranks.
By the way, I’ve entered the US 3 times on my shiny new, red passport and had no problems with the border guards.
@Sally:
“In the case of the police, the proper remedy would be better training of the police. “
LMAO! Give us a break! Those police need to be put in jail, not sent on a taxpayer funded week long drinking junket to some training center in Orlando. But this statement makes clear that you are a statist, that you don’t want to recognize that the problem IS the welfare state, and that tax-fishing trips against groups of disenfranchised white minorities are but a symptom.
You would have us restrict discussion to FBAR, FATCA and other tax issues directly related to the expat community. Well Obamacare is all but given, and the IRS is going to enforce US Federal law that says everyone has to have a Democrat party approved health plan. If an approved US carrier offered an ultra-low cost supplemental plan to Canadians I would imagine that you wouldn’t mind discussing it here. But I could give a sh*t about that. Or what about the new IRS mandate that they and the state department revoke your US pass if you owe $50K in back taxes and therefore may not leave or enter the US. Is this fair game for discussion in your book, or since this isn’t directly an expat issue should we avoid this subject? And if they extend the $50K passport seizure to those students who are arrears in their student loan payments, can we discuss an education bill?
Let’s list which Federal departments exercise power over expats:
Treasury – (IRS)
State – (CLN, Passports, INS)
Congress – (they make the laws)
Homeland Security – (TSA, Borders)
Executive – (Veto, Pardon, Executive Decree)
Justice – (Any law suits, legal charges)
Education – (student loans)
HHS – (Obamacare)
And I am sure I have missed a few.
Hey guess what Sally, they are all arms of the welfare state! But lets not discuss that.
You might like this confederate, but search on Louisiana Highest Number of incarcerations. Then you can see why. There’s no conspiracy about it; there is a financial incentive to lock people up, and that’s why they’ll arrest you for something that was unheard of 20-30 years ago. Maybe I’m throwing fuel onto the fire, but just this once.
Now I’ll share my recipe for a stress-free life: turn off the news. A couple of years ago, I did this. Life was good. I didn’t watch or read the news for 1 year while I worked on a large project. If I walked into a restaurant and I heard the news on TV, I walked out. During this “black out” period, I REALLY realised how much of a powerful influence the news really is. The news IMHO causes more harm than good. There are so many f-upped things that happen and there’s basically nothing that you, nor I, nor any of us can do anything about.
After the 1 year was up. I started reading some news sites. Guess what’s the first thing I discovered? FATCA, FBAR, etc.. no kidding. So after I renounce, guess what’s going to be the first thing I do? Avoid all news like the plague, especially the news coming out of Washington!
I totally agree with Sally. If this site becomes everything anti-american, it will loose its credibility regarding the original issues that started it, and I believe that a lot of the regulars and respected people who post here would just stop.
I believe that this story is horrible, but I want to believe it is an isolated incident. Yes, it is a shame that this has been covered up. As the retired cop said at the beginning, most police officers are not like that. Another criminal in the story is the nurse that didn’t say anything. Maybe if she had, there would have been another conclusion. I think that’s what we need to remember of this story and apply it to our cause. Let’s just report the injustice that the IRS is implementing, so that fewer minnows get caught in the net designed for whales.