36 thoughts on “Switzerland and Japan sell out to FATCA?”
*@tim, if this is true, living outside of the US for 10 years would also suspend collection of any estate taxes that might otherwise be due if the person continued to live outside of the US until deceased. Do you suppose that is the case? The IRS would have a difficult time getting its hands on estate taxes if the estate was settled without the IRS being aware that the person had died while residing abroad and he had no assests in the US
@Roger, I would like to think that they’d be sensible enough to focus on low-hanging fruit, whales and obvious tax evaders. However, I wouldn’t put it past the IRS to also randomly make examples of expat minnows to emphasize that ALL US persons are subject to its tax laws. Nevertheless, I believe that with limited resources they’ll have to focus on their juiciest targets.
Moore’s law applies to database capacity as well as other computer technologies. Every 2 years the speed and capacity of data warehouses doubles. Every year IBM, Oracle, EDS and even Infosys and Wipro (indian IT companies) are fulfilling government contracts and using the latest ETL (Extraction/Transformation/Load) technologies to load legacy data into even more modern database structures. The cost of accessing this data drops in price as the capacity increases and old investments are amortized away.
I write this because when you enter the US and pass through Immigration your data is keyed on your fingerprint, whether you are a US Person on a US passport or a Foreign National. Most police departments have laptops with access to these database online in every police car.
Now the question becomes “what do they know about me on that computer”. Well thanks to FATCA and Interpol and the CIA and the NSA they probably know just about everything about you, and if they don’t then they soon will. Did any of you read about the massive new datacenter in Utah?
So as the world financial crisis deepens and the elites crack down on the serfs, the question readers here have to ask themselves may become as simple as “do they know that I ever visited this web site?”.
PS: On my second visit to the US after renouncing in 2010, immigration found an old drug conviction of mine from 1977. In 2011 it did not show up on the computer screen after a fingerprint scan. In 2012 it did. They keep adding more data to their computer systems. At some point they may be able to provide a “anti-government ranking” between 0 and 99 based on an AI evaluation of the web sites you visit, keywords in your email, etc, etc. Anyone over 90 would be hauled in for questioning, possible deportation, or even shipping to Gitmo
@ConfederateH
I am sure that FATCA data will end up in some type of data warehouse like the new one being proposed, although I thought it was going to be Nevada. Whatever! It will be in one or more of those sand states with lots of open worthless space to build these monstrous buildings which in the private internet world are called “clouds”! These will be the ‘storm cloud’ equivalent.
By this agreement the IRS is now a step closer to achieve their primary objective. They are interested in the names of the account holders and not in getting proceeds from withholding. We therefore consider this being a step towards implementation of FATCA in Switzerland. It somehow creates additional uncertainty, especially to the extent that certain relaxation for the FATCA implementation will be considered for Switzerland. It is however unclear what these exactly are.
Furthermore, it is now clearer that it will be dealt with the reporting and withholding restrictions around art. 271 of the Swiss penal code. Under the assumption that anyway all Swiss FFI’s are FATCA compliant, they will not face the withholding problem.
@Just Me
Thanks for the link to the KPMG blog. A difference that I reported earlier in this thread concerns the use of the term “certain small local FFIs” in the US Dept of Treasury announcement and the use of the phrase “Certain financial institutions that operate primarily on a local or regional basis …)” in the Swiss government announcement.
KPMG expresses the opinion that a bank will have to be < US$175 million in assets to be considered small, based on the FATCA regulations promulgated in Feb 2012, meaning that almost all banks, including even the smallest of cantonal banks, will have to become FFI certified, rather than being deemed compliant.
I suspect that the Swiss position is to negotiate to exclude local/ regional banks that have not actively solicited US business while the US Treasury’s position is to include these as well, allowing only an exception for a few two-employee banks. The Swiss position could also be smoke and the already-agreed definition will be presented in August when most Swiss bankers are on holiday.
@Just me, why don’t we call all the practitioners that support the implementation of FATCA as “FATCACRAP” or “CRAP” for short, Compliance, Reporting and Assistance Practitioners?It’s almost therapeutic to refer to them as all of those in FATCACRAP, no?
@bubblebustin
I knew there were some out there who could be creative…!! FATCA CRAP indeed! However, I would like something shorter and memorable but unoffensive to a certain audience. CRAP gets banned on lots of blog comments, so need something that sticks in ones memory, but would get by comment sensors on places like NYTs, WSJ, and other mainstream publications.
@just me, shortening it to FATCRAP would work on most levels, except the offensive one. Oh well, it felt good anyway 🙂
Interesting article in German. The bundesrat is discussing the IGA. Google translation works pretty well.
– The government took the first discussion but no decisions.
– Without implementation threatens the Swiss financial institutions but in fact the exclusion from major U.S. capital markets.
– the control an automatic information exchange is relatively close. The text of the agreement has not been released.
– The Federal Council is concerned, according to Simonazzi especially with the consequences for Switzerland under the Agreement. He was not specific but address the consequences for the unresolved tax issues with the EU. The EU expects that Switzerland offers her an equivalent solution as the U.S.
– the Parliament must approve the contract in the summer.
@Christophe… Thanks for finding this.
I am a little behind, but this answers for me some questions about what was happening with Germany, as it has been a year since the FATCA Partnership announcement on the IGA..
Here is the entire translation..
Bern (Reuters / sda) – The implementation of the controversial U.S. FATCA tax law in Switzerland on Wednesday have been subject in the Bundesrat. The government took the first discussion but no decisions.
Bern (Reuters / sda) – The implementation of the controversial U.S. FATCA tax law in Switzerland on Wednesday have been subject in the Bundesrat. The government took the first discussion but no decisions.
The Federal Council will continue its work to a future meeting, as Federal spokesman André Simonazzi told. The next meeting of the Federal Council meets in two weeks, however, as the session goes down on Wednesday because of the sports holiday. (They do have priorities, after all LOL)
The U.S. request to the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) that foreign banks generally accounts of U.S. clients to report the U.S. tax authorities, which löchert banking secrecy continues. Without implementation threatens the Swiss financial institutions, but in fact the exclusion from major U.S. capital markets.
Switzerland and the United States beginning in December 2012, initialed an agreement to FATCA, which regulates access as the account information in the United States. Although facilities are provided, however, is the control an automatic information exchange is relatively close. The text of the agreement has not been released.
The Federal Council is concerned, according to Simonazzi especially with the consequences for Switzerland under the Agreement. He was not specific but address the consequences for the unresolved tax issues with the EU. The EU expects that Switzerland offers her an equivalent solution as the U.S..
The time required for approval by the parliament urgent in early 2014, the Agreement shall enter into force already. To the Parliament must approve the contract in the summer.
The discussion about Switzerland impacts interested me. Why are they so concerned about them, and not their own financial institutions? This question shows my ignorance, I know. 🙂 Just saw this tweet tonight from the Swiss Banking association.
*@tim, if this is true, living outside of the US for 10 years would also suspend collection of any estate taxes that might otherwise be due if the person continued to live outside of the US until deceased. Do you suppose that is the case? The IRS would have a difficult time getting its hands on estate taxes if the estate was settled without the IRS being aware that the person had died while residing abroad and he had no assests in the US
@Roger, I would like to think that they’d be sensible enough to focus on low-hanging fruit, whales and obvious tax evaders. However, I wouldn’t put it past the IRS to also randomly make examples of expat minnows to emphasize that ALL US persons are subject to its tax laws. Nevertheless, I believe that with limited resources they’ll have to focus on their juiciest targets.
Moore’s law applies to database capacity as well as other computer technologies. Every 2 years the speed and capacity of data warehouses doubles. Every year IBM, Oracle, EDS and even Infosys and Wipro (indian IT companies) are fulfilling government contracts and using the latest ETL (Extraction/Transformation/Load) technologies to load legacy data into even more modern database structures. The cost of accessing this data drops in price as the capacity increases and old investments are amortized away.
I write this because when you enter the US and pass through Immigration your data is keyed on your fingerprint, whether you are a US Person on a US passport or a Foreign National. Most police departments have laptops with access to these database online in every police car.
Now the question becomes “what do they know about me on that computer”. Well thanks to FATCA and Interpol and the CIA and the NSA they probably know just about everything about you, and if they don’t then they soon will. Did any of you read about the massive new datacenter in Utah?
So as the world financial crisis deepens and the elites crack down on the serfs, the question readers here have to ask themselves may become as simple as “do they know that I ever visited this web site?”.
PS: On my second visit to the US after renouncing in 2010, immigration found an old drug conviction of mine from 1977. In 2011 it did not show up on the computer screen after a fingerprint scan. In 2012 it did. They keep adding more data to their computer systems. At some point they may be able to provide a “anti-government ranking” between 0 and 99 based on an AI evaluation of the web sites you visit, keywords in your email, etc, etc. Anyone over 90 would be hauled in for questioning, possible deportation, or even shipping to Gitmo
@ConfederateH
I am sure that FATCA data will end up in some type of data warehouse like the new one being proposed, although I thought it was going to be Nevada. Whatever! It will be in one or more of those sand states with lots of open worthless space to build these monstrous buildings which in the private internet world are called “clouds”! These will be the ‘storm cloud’ equivalent.
Here is now KPMG, another of the FTPACC sees the Switzerland deal… FATCA TAX PRACTITIONER ACCOUNTING COMPLIANCE COMPLEX. I need a better acronym to describe these guys. Get your creative juices running and help me.
http://blog.kpmg.ch/financial-services/switzerland-is-moving-towards-fatca-implementation/
@Just Me
Thanks for the link to the KPMG blog. A difference that I reported earlier in this thread concerns the use of the term “certain small local FFIs” in the US Dept of Treasury announcement and the use of the phrase “Certain financial institutions that operate primarily on a local or regional basis …)” in the Swiss government announcement.
KPMG expresses the opinion that a bank will have to be < US$175 million in assets to be considered small, based on the FATCA regulations promulgated in Feb 2012, meaning that almost all banks, including even the smallest of cantonal banks, will have to become FFI certified, rather than being deemed compliant.
I suspect that the Swiss position is to negotiate to exclude local/ regional banks that have not actively solicited US business while the US Treasury’s position is to include these as well, allowing only an exception for a few two-employee banks. The Swiss position could also be smoke and the already-agreed definition will be presented in August when most Swiss bankers are on holiday.
@Just me, why don’t we call all the practitioners that support the implementation of FATCA as “FATCACRAP” or “CRAP” for short, Compliance, Reporting and Assistance Practitioners?It’s almost therapeutic to refer to them as all of those in FATCACRAP, no?
@bubblebustin
I knew there were some out there who could be creative…!! FATCA CRAP indeed! However, I would like something shorter and memorable but unoffensive to a certain audience. CRAP gets banned on lots of blog comments, so need something that sticks in ones memory, but would get by comment sensors on places like NYTs, WSJ, and other mainstream publications.
@just me, shortening it to FATCRAP would work on most levels, except the offensive one. Oh well, it felt good anyway 🙂
Interesting article in German. The bundesrat is discussing the IGA. Google translation works pretty well.
http://www.cash.ch/news/alle/chbundesrat_beginnt_diskussion_zu_fatcaabkommen-3024136-448
Main points:
– The government took the first discussion but no decisions.
– Without implementation threatens the Swiss financial institutions but in fact the exclusion from major U.S. capital markets.
– the control an automatic information exchange is relatively close. The text of the agreement has not been released.
– The Federal Council is concerned, according to Simonazzi especially with the consequences for Switzerland under the Agreement. He was not specific but address the consequences for the unresolved tax issues with the EU. The EU expects that Switzerland offers her an equivalent solution as the U.S.
– the Parliament must approve the contract in the summer.
@Christophe… Thanks for finding this.
I am a little behind, but this answers for me some questions about what was happening with Germany, as it has been a year since the FATCA Partnership announcement on the IGA..
Here is the entire translation..
The discussion about Switzerland impacts interested me. Why are they so concerned about them, and not their own financial institutions? This question shows my ignorance, I know. 🙂 Just saw this tweet tonight from the Swiss Banking association.
https://twitter.com/SwissBankingSBA/status/298359129142083585
SwissBanking @SwissBankingSBA
Access to US market is important for Swiss banks; we expect quick signing and ratification of #FATCA agreement #sbastatement