Weigh in here. Does Obama deserve to be elected?
This is a moderated debate that is in the opening remarks phase. It will run to closure on June 20th, so there is time to weigh in on his actions which are impacting Americans Abroad so negatively.
Here is the comment I just quickly added. I tried real hard not to be too long! 🙂
And here is another opportunity that Renounce just tweeted about a WSJ blog titled: It’s Hard to Become a Non-Citizen, Too
https://twitter.com/USCitizenAbroad/status/212631785685782529
*Don’t forget to hit “recommend”. It is in red/brown and becomes black after you hit it. You may be able to refresh pages and recommend again.
Recommend will give it more visibility.
(Someone else is writing the same comments over and over again and recommending themselves–a social media professional)
Recommended everything that I agreed with, which were mostly all of the expat posts. Posts by people in our positions have the most recommendations, so I imagine that by 20 June it will become apparent that Obama’s most fervent opponents are the 7 million strong expat bloc that he has so thoroughly alienated.
Do you think he knows why he is so disliked by expat voters? That’s what bothers me the most…I would like to really know who, beyond Schumer and Levin, bas even heard of FATCA or the FBAR in the US political establishment. Since they always send back automated replies or won’t even read letters from constituents abroad, I imagine that the number is quite low.
*I hope that others will keep clicking recommend. There is a reason why the FATCA ones are becoming highest recommended, wink wink no what I mean.
@Joe the Engineer…
Welcome and thanks. I will go back and look for more to recommend! I always try to do that, although some sites only allow one recommend per IP address.
I posted a comment with the “nom de plume” of Titus1812.
I was pleased to see other expats raising the issues that are widely discussed here.
I would encourage others to post comments. For those of us who haven’t renounced, I would advocate voting this November. It is the only way I know of to register our displeasure for being ignored by this administration!*
Hey Tius,
Are you new to commenting here? I don’t know if I have seen your name before, but if I missed you, let me extend a welcome. Appreciate you voting and recommending other posts on that Economist debate. I have not seen many articles in the Economist on FATCA. This was the last, so having a lot of posts with that FATCA acronym in the subject, might get a moderators attention which then would move to some journalist to investigate or right more. We can only hope…
and then maybe a tweet would help too… You just never know.
https://twitter.com/FATCA_BlowBack/status/212929238758723584
*@Just Me
Thank you for your gracious welcome. I have submitted few comments, as they would be redundant to the many excellent posts from the other Brockers.
I have been living in Canada since I came to University in 1972. After finishing Medical School, I established a practice in rural Nova Scotia. My wife is British, and we both took up Canadian citizenship.
My life as a persecuted expatriate began last Summer when I learned about my filing obligations , FBAR, etc. After consulting a good, thorough, and reasonable U.S. attorney, I entered OVDI 2011. We are now awaiting the pleasure of Secretary Geithner.
I really appreciate your sharing your experiences, as I have found your posts to be very instructive.
@Titus…
I feel your pain, Mate! Good luck, and hopefully you can live with the result of what was a hard decision, I know. Depending on your facts, I trust you have been keeping up with the latest from Jack Townsend on Opting Out.
BTW, in 1972, I went north too, but Alaska, not Canada!
PS, I bet your wife is like mine was, incredulous and outraged! LOL (She is an Aussie. I kept her away from my examiner!)
Titus;
This might not be helpful, but you might be interested in this post re the CMA’s letter to (and from) Minister Flaherty if you haven’t seen it? http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/04/23/canadian-medical-association-position-on-fatca-and-fbarmust-read/
*The title to this “debate” reminds me of the cranky old farts who teach law school who delight in playing mind games with their terrorized first year students around the theme and variation of, ” let me frame the question and I’ll have you giving me the answer I want.” One would have us thinking that Obama ( or worse, the Democratic Party) is single-handedly responsible for FATCA, FBARs, and the muscle-bound perceived insensitivity of the so-called IRS. Even a superficial reading of history from the time of the enactment of the Bank Secrecy Act in the 70’s through the Reagan Bush era will show that the Republicans share the blame equally with the Democrats for the failure of government we are now experiencing.
Let’s change the question a bit to read, “Given the disaster we are now experiencing with FATCA and an unworkable Internal Revenue Code, shouldn’t we vote for “Mitt ” Romney who we all know has the will and the way to make all our problems go away”? Sounds stupid doesn’t it??
@Steve…
There you are. Up late, cruising the internet? Had missed hearing from you for a while. 🙂 Thanks for weighing in.
I for one, know he isn’t responsible for 30 years of FBAR and Bank Secrecy Law. We certainly had the increases in penalties in 2004 under Bush, and of course we have the Bush appointed Commissioner Shulman, so there is partisan blame to go around.
Still, if he is claiming FATCA as a promise kept, then I guess, we have to reward the application of that promise. As for Romney having the Will and the Way, I am still in the unconvinced category. DC is bigger than the Man, and I don’t except anything different out of him either, but then I am on the extreme edge of political cynicism these days, so not a fair judge of the better of the two candidates.
btw, check out the PBS coverage of the Michael Lewis graduation talk, on the Extra Cookie thread. I know you appreciated it.
@Just me – I think you may have missed mr Mopsick’s point. ‘Punishing’ Obama by not re-electing him is one thing, but is the alternative (Mitt) better?
@p33t
Well, I don’t think I missed the inference. Like I have said, DC is bigger than the man, and I am unconvinced that Romney has anything better to offer. I am not sure what “will and the way” he would bring to change anything from what we have now.
The moderator’s rebuttal remarks – Jun 15th 2012
Roger McShane, the debate moderator, says:
“In comments, there seems to be an organised effort by American ex-pats
to raise the issue of tax reporting from abroad. While I’m sympathetic
to their plight (or was, prior to this debate), I doubt the president’s
case for re-election will stand or fall on this issue.”
@oohlala,
In other words, American EXPATS concerns again not worth listening to — our issues the homelanders (the real US citizens) don’t want to take the time to hear as it has no applicability to them and besides aren’t we really traitors, having expat’ed?
@calgary411, re “as it has no applicability to them”. Wonder if those living inside the US would respond more thoughtfully to the question of whether they themselves are being deprived of the freedom and choice to go abroad to prosper if offered the opportunity? Or for their children to study or work if offered a scholarship or other opportunity?
Everyone likes to feel that they have freedom, choices and options even if they choose not to exercise them. No-one wants their children to be deprived of opportunities (even hypothetical ones).
Some companies and industry sectors mandate that the employee must be willing to spend a certain amount of time at satellite locations outside the US – and people who wouldn’t be willing to go overseas, might not consider Canada – in the border cities, to be in the same category of ‘abroad’. Thus, they’re being deprived of their options and freedom to choose to take up employment – for example in Alberta – where US workers are being courted.
Engineering, mining, etc. are sectors where there are usually compelling reasons for companies to send their US based employees ‘abroad’ for significant periods of time. There must be others, but I’m just not familiar enough with corporate employers to think of other significant examples. Commenters here have mentioned that US companies have been hiring non-US workers to fill those ‘overseas’ posts, but there must be situations in which that isn’t their first preference?
@calgary411
I assume the moderator is simply indicating that this is not an issue that will make a voter difference. If one were to rely uniquely on the American vote in the homeland, Mr McShane is absolutely correct. Homelanders are not at all aware of these issues and so it will not impact the outcome. This said, if the 6 million American voters abroad were to demonstrate their displeasure then it might, just possibly, make a difference. Mr McShane did indicate that he was sympathetic (or used to be) to the problems of American expats but he probably wishes that this issue not overtake his debate.
What is interesting is that these issues have gained a bit of attention and hopefully will have educated a few more people.
*@Calgary: It is not that homelanders don’t care, rather they are consumed by their own economic problems. The issues facing Americans abroad need to be well-articulated and organized. That’s why organizations like American Citizens Abroad and Democrats Abroad are so important.
Politicians everywhere respond to money and where the votes are. If there really are seven million votes out there it would make a difference. The problem is there is only a tiny fraction of people who are vocal and getting organized.
The real truth is the vast majority of Americans abroad don’t really care either because they are so far off the radar, so completely underground, they figure they are highly unlikely to get caught.
That said, the Isaac Brock Society is playing a perfect role as a lighting rod and is getting plenty of attention. You need to keep up the good work. There are some politicians in Washington who really care (can’t think of any at the moment) but it is going to be a long hard fight to turn things around. One thing is for sure though: Obama as an issue is a “red herring.” If anyone thinks that a changing of the guard at the White House is going to matter at all, you are setting yourself up for a big disappointment.
@oohlala…
I take the view, that “mission accomplished” It got their attention and while they dismiss it with what could well be correct analysis, they can not ignore the impacts and think more about it. So, I for one am taking the “glass half full” view of this.
I also think 30 year IRS Vet is right with his analysis. We just have to plod on, without being too shrill or extreme as our frustration grows. Roger is good at bringing these subjects back homelander’s economic problems related to the impacts on their jobs, exports and trade deficit, so those angles need to also keep getting attention. Helping them see the connection between Expat plights, and their homeland jobs is a good strategy to pursue, I think.
Plod on dear warriors! 🙂
@30 year IRS vet,
Phil Hodgen said that an effective argument was one that addressed employment for constituents INSIDE the US. And we’ve seen articles about unemployed US residents looking for work across the border in Canada, and Alberta/Canada looking to solicit workers from the US. http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/05/22/need-job-will-travel/
Do you think that angle would get traction as one which would show those ‘homelanders’ why punishing them by making their banking here a nightmare full of FBAR and FATCA pitfalls denies them the freedom and opportunity to take jobs where-ever they choose?” “I’ve talked to high-level U.S. consulate staff within Alberta and they have been very encouraging and good to work with. They recognize that there is great mutual opportunity.” ” (from “U.S. workers: Need job, can’t travel to Alberta; Washington wants Ottawa to make it easier for U.S. workers to fill vacancies there”
by Luiza Ch. Savage on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 11:00am”)
They don’t know it, but the bank accounts they need to open here, http://expatriatemind.blogspot.ca/2012/06/another-step-in-integration-bank.html and their US tax situation would suddenly become fraught with quicksand for the unwary.
If Washington really wants to ‘make it easier’ to get jobs in Alberta, those “high-level U.S. consulate staff within Alberta” and the Canadian officials involved need to make it clear that a huge impediment is the onerous, complex and punitive ‘foreign’ banking and reporting regime. Otherwise, both the US and Canada are setting those workers up for failure and possible bankruptcy when they inadvertently fall into the numerous perils of the little known and hard to comply with provisions of the current IRS requirements.
What is the point of having talks to arrange for workers to come here if they’ll be set up to fail taxwise? Do those officials even know, or care about how those requirements imperil any US ‘person’ who will work, earn and bank outside the US? see; http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/money/Taxes+create+cross+border+issues/6707255/story.html
*@Badger: I totally agree with Phil that the argument needs to be expressed in terms of the economic effect on Americans inside the US and their ability to compete for jobs abroad, but don’t fool yourself into thinking that the answer is the repeal of FATCA. That’s not going to happen.
The FATCA train has already left the station and if you read the international banking journals and other business publications, apart from some worn-out, “heard it before” griping, no one in any position of authority in or out of governments abroad or in the international banking/brokerage community are singing that tune. The Big Four accounting firms can’t hire FATCA experts and computer people fast enough to keep up with the demands of their mega-clients who see FATCA as a sure fire way to make more money.
The talk in the bank board rooms and at the secret meetings at the fancy international resorts is how to implement FATCA so as to avoid any interruption at all of the billions of dollars in profits which continue to pour into the banks and the brokerage houses all over the world. In fact the big boys are using FATCA as an excuse to completely modernize their computer infrastructures to get ready for the planned shared international banking customer data base which will be the international banking framework for the rest of the twenty first century.
The banks and brokerage houses abroad are spending billions, not to thwart FATCA but rather to figure out how to make it work smoothly while they pass the cost of compliance on to all their depositors, big and small. The official IRS response to the FATCA pitfalls which deny Americans the freedom and opportunity to take jobs where ever they choose is probably going to be, “shut up and just comply. The earned income exclusion and the foreign tax credit is all you get unless Congress says otherwise.” I know that my comment here is going to absolutely infuriate many Brockers who read this but please don’t kill the messenger. Unless I am living on another planet, what am I missing?
Thanks for your comments @30Year IRS Vet, good to have your feedback. We also see the FATCA compliance industry growing as business seizes on it as an opportunity to charge vast sums for ‘compliance’ services (similar to way the Y2K scenario did – except these guys are hoping it will be a gravy train forever). And the messages from the big four touting the ‘benefits’, and downplaying any naysayers or criticisms.
Just seems that the unemployment numbers and the state of the economy would make it crazy to deny US workers mobility.
AND recent GAO reports seem to poke holes in the claims of the IRS about the actual cost/benefit claims. There is ample evidence that the stats they use about the scale of US persons abroad and the estimated international ‘tax gap’ are not based in any serious research or robust data. They just keep repeating made up numbers.
@30 year IRS Vet…
You are absolutely right about the Practitioner, Accounting firm, Compliance Complex is well underway, and in that, the battle may be lost. Now it is about Minnow Mitigation.
GATCA is our future, like it or not.
BTW, I am sure you read this on Linked In… http://bit.ly/LLCpM6
Still the wild card in this Compliance frenzy, is Asia, China, Japan and Russia (and to a lesser degree South American Countries). Will they just all meekly follow?