He misses it with his line about Ackerman’s word “exceptional”:
This neo-con buzzword is nothing more than an excuse for Americans to
rewrite the rules of universal rights and principles as their
self-styled interests deem it profitable to do so.
To my knowledge, the term “neo-con” cannot apply to Schumer. He is, from what I understand, a “liberal” (though “illiberal” really) democrat, a progressive. Ackerman doesn’t strike me as a “neo-con” either. We have to get used to the fact that our adversaries in the United States are both the conservatives and the illiberals, the regressives and the progressives, the idiots and the morons.
Actually neo-cons arose among ‘liberal’ democrats during the 1960s.
Early shapers and proponents of this new, aggressive conservatism include Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Norman Podhoretz, Diana Trilling, Seymour Martin Lipset, and Midge Decter.
On December 14, 2008 the New York Times published an article on Schumer’s role in the Wall Street meltdown. The article stated that Schumer embraced the industry’s free-market, deregulatory agenda more than any other Democrat in Congress, even backing measures now blamed for contributing to the financial crisis.[93] Schumer took steps to protect industry players from government oversight and tougher rules, a review of his record shows. Over the years, he has also helped save financial institutions billions of dollars in higher taxes or fees. He succeeded in limiting efforts to regulate credit-rating agencies. This article also charged that Schumer blocked ratings agencies reforms proposed by the Bush Administration and the Cox SEC.[93]
We are living in competitive world and the dual citizens living abroad (e.g. in which they are grown up and for them for practical purposes the USA is a foreign country) have been put in competitive disadvantage. For example, to budding entrepreneurs or self-employed risk takers the burden of additional regulations is main difference between success and inevitable failure.
The additional burdens, uncertainty and threat of dire consequence for inadvertent or non-willful mistakes doom expats to failure, no differently than tying 5KGs to each leg of Olympic runner. No wonder, the US is suffering biggest trade deficient and any addition of more regulations only hurts its exports.
It is nearly impossible for a budding entrepreneur to succeed in a foreign nation, if he doesn’t relinquish his US citizenship. The overbearing regulations put any business at huge competitive disadvantage. Unfortunately the big players (e.g. GE, Intel, Google or Facebook) are able to buy tax loopholes to avoid the taxes. The small business owned by dual-citizens don’t unlikely to owe any taxes, but bear huge regulation burden no differently than Olympic high jumper forced to ware 15KG vest, while big companies able to buy tax loopholes to avoid paying their faire share.
Companies like IBM, Microsoft or Google have huge operations in China, India and other nations. I know many US collage graduates willing to work in foreign nations to gain experience and experience foreign culture. Every year, companies like Infosys receive thousands of resumes from people willing to work on low India salaries. Although salaries are very low compared to the US salaries, they can have decent living in low cost nations like India. I am in 50 and still love to work experience foreign culture in China or Japan, if I get a job opportunity. Encouraging young explorers and risk takers not only reduce un-employment, burden on government services and earn foreign currency when they visit the USA or when they return to the USA (bringing back their savings).
If citizenship based taxes are eliminated (at least 3 years after graduation as an experimintation) and encourage graduates to find jobs abroad, I am sure it is possible to create 2 to 3 million jobs for US citizens abroad in the operations of US companies alone such as GE or Google. It helps young graduates to quickly find a job and gain valuable experience, which helps them find better job in the USA.
People who migrate have better chance to succeed. I was successful in the USA, because I have to work hard to survive. If I had stayed back in India, I could have got by in my life without working hard. If US graduates live in India or China, they would understand the value of savings, which would help them in the future after returning to the USA.
Sorry for the long rant.
@ Petros
“We have to get used to the fact that our adversaries in the United
States are both the conservatives and the illiberals, the regressives
and the progressives, the idiots and the morons.”
That was very well put. I have no say as to which version of the same as the other is elected but I can still bristle about the consequences of US elections which change nothing of substance. BTW if liberals are “illiberals”, what does that make conservatives?
I think I’ll answer my own question above. Liberals are “illiberals” and Conservatives are “con-u-servatives”.
As I read these articles I realize that we are on the front line of a very important moment in history. We are witnessing/experiencing on a daily basis the end of the United States of America. The U.S. is like a chicken running around with its head cut off. Everybody but the chicken knows that the chicken is dead.
At exactly the moment when the U.S. needs friends and support (think of the debt) it is creating enemies in every part of the world. Examples include:
1. FATCA – Yes, let’s invade the financial sovereignty of other nations.
2. Drone strikes in Pakistan – Yes, let’s invade the territorial sovereignty of other countries.
3. Citizenship Based Taxation – Yes, let’s steal directly from other countries.
4. FBAR – Yes, let’s make our citizens report on the financial activities of citizens and institutions of other countries
5. U.S. immigrants – Yes, let’s attack them for not reporting bank accounts they have at home and didn’t know they should report
6. Patriot Act – running roughshod over the constitutional rights of U.S. citizens
7. The amount of debt owed to China – The interest payments on the debt provide a revenue stream to China to build the Chinese military
the list goes on and on.
But, I suspect that history will show that citizenship-based taxation will be identified as a major reason for the end of the U.S. After all, the U.S. has created about seven million enemies who they refer to as U.S. citizens. They have lost their overseas “Ambassadors of Goodwill” (and to think that they were at no cost to the U.S.)
Well, as Forrest Gump would say:
“Stupid is as stupid does.”
The obvious question is why can’t the U.S. see this? The answer: the country is blinded by its own narcissism. None of the “Common Homelanders – Brave Jim in Houston”, “The Homelander Elite Core – Professor Ackerman and his ilk” nor the “U.S. government – Obama, Levin, Geithner, Kerry, etc.) is able to see what it is happening. They are completely blind.
Have any of the contributors to this blog considered the possibility that we are creating a document of major historical importance? Imagine if you could have read a blog of either the Loyalists or the Patriots during the years leading up to and during the American revolution? What a different story it would have told!
Who knows, maybe Petros will be the “Paul Revere” of this era. Would the wisdom of “Just Me” qualify him to be the new Benjamin Franklin?
Amazing!!
@renounce “The Isaac Brock Society” would be a catchy title for a movie, eh/huh?
Back to the article, Roger Pulvers compares the Ex-Patriot Act as a witch hunt, but nowhere does he mention FATCA or citizenship based taxation as compelling reasons to renounce US citizenship, as though he’s unaware of those two factors.
@bubblebustin
He renounced a long time ago. He probably has a limited awareness of the attack on U.S. citizens abroad. It’s too bad that comments cannot be posted to this article.
Yes I like “The Isaac Brock Society” as the title for a movie. Find somebody in the film business to produce it. If memory serves we developed the cast of characters in March/12. Check with Steven to see if he is still up for playing Douglass Shulman.
@renounce,
Indeed, so good thing that both Isaac Brock Society and Renounce U.S. Citizenship blogs now reside in Canada. We are writing history that must not be lost. Thanks for all of your insight.
@renounce, he has pretty good insight re the Expatriot Act. How could he have missed FATCA? I sent a notice to the editor re this.
Thought I would try to contact Roger who wrote the article. Since there was no contact information that I could find, I used an online email box with reference back to the article to send him this….
Just wanted to commend Roger on his article today, as he nailed it on the head when he concluded with: “American citizens at home, be wary: The finger pointing at others can, in a single gesture, be made to point at you.”
He has gotten quite a lot of attention from some Canadian bloggers who are trying to relinquish or renounce their citizenship due to the IRS offshore jihad, FBAR penalties and FATCA. These actions will have lots of negative consequences just now beginning to be understood.
Here is the link to Isaac Brock Society where I first became aware of his article.
It would be good if Roger also wrote about FATCA, as I see one of the most stringent comments at the recent Public hearings on May 15th, came from Japan. It is in a written transcript of the hearing at this site.
Finally, because I am sure not very many people know, FATCA has also resulted in a domestic version in the US which I call DATCA. Now that is stirring some minor awakenings to what is happening beneath the radar screen in US media.
Long constructive rants are appreciated here. Especially if they help educate us, or add to a broader view. Actually I did not find yours especially ranting. It was just calling it like it is. Your analogy to the Olympic runner with 5 kg weight (You will have to explain to the Americans what a Kg is) is very apt. You and Roger Conklin see exactly alike on this.
BTW, you may have commented here in the past, and I have missed seeing it. If so, welcome aboard, if I failed to extend greetings. Appreciate your contribution. Come back often and bring some Indian mates! I enjoy immigrant perspectives. 🙂
@Bharat, Have to concur with Just Me. That was a very interesting and constructive comment. I think you are dead right about the opportunities for young graduates. This is the era of globalization and ideally the world should be wide open for talented people to go where they can do well and where they are needed. Americans (young or old) should not be discouraged or handicapped against participating in the global job market by their own government!
Thank you @Just me. The 5kgs is equal to 11 ponds. I hope that the US gives young graduates a chance to succeed in the emerging global economy. I hope, they introduce a program to encourage graduates to explore the world, before they return to the USA and settle down.
• As an experiment and incentive, completely exempt them from Tax filing obligation in certain circumstances, where we are sure that they don’t owe taxes to the USA. The parameters for automatic exemption may be defined as follows: • Working in the high tax or low income countries like China, Japan, Singapore or India. • Automatic exemption for first 5 years after graduation and younger than 27 years. If they start next Facebook in China, good for them. No tax filing obligation for 5 years. • If they fear rich people may use this as a loop hole, one can put restriction based on their US wealth and/or US sourced investments.
I feel, we can’t get territorial based tax system, but since it can employee millions of jobs to young people abroad, this is a good idea for both republicans and democrats, who are not proposing any practical ideas to alleviate the un-employment or stop the free fall of US economy and image.
For example, the success of software industry in India is attributed to tax-exempt status to software exporters. It in fact generated more taxes, because although the companies are not paying taxes, it created millions of very high paying jobs, who are paying huge taxes. They helped fuel real-estate boom because the software people can afford high priced houses, which in turn fueled retail boom because it increased land prices making many small farmers instant millionaires, and so on.
For example, IBM alone has over 100,000 employees in India. Although IBM may not pay any direct taxes (but pay huge indirect taxes such as VAT or excise etc.), its high paying employs pay billion dollars in taxes. In fact the incentive is successful tax and employment generation program, because there won’t be such a big IBM’s operation without tax excemption. The IBM trained many people in India and latest technologies, processes and exposed to the US clients like banks and retail chains. Some of the employees can use this expertise to start their own businesses to help Indian businesses. It has build a huge knowledge capital, which is more valuable in long term than imaginary tax lost due to tax-free status for exporters.
The US must stop imposing huge tax filing burden on imaginary possibility of tax on businesses and people. I feel, Romney would win election if he can propose this kind of tax generation plan, because he can prove that it generates real taxes and huge employment, while reducing demand on US infrastructure and services (saving lot of money to both state and central governments).
The IRS must stop going after imaginary or notional taxes. No college grad goes to work abroad to evade taxes. He gains valuable knowledge capital, which is valuable asset that generates more taxes when he returns to the USA.
I hope some body higher ups in Presidential campiness could discover this kind of practical ideas to increase taxes and reduce government spending.
*This points out the importance of getting to the media. Japan times is quite insignificant to USA decision makers. I sent an email to Rush Limbaugh as he has a wide audience, not because I like him, with links to the most relevant information. Perhaps he will pick it up. I sent an email to a neighbor who has worked in the center of Swedish media, and have tried to call, with no success yet. Writing to congressmen has had absolutely zero effect. Media and lobbyists (votes and campaign money) are the only things with effect. We can see that the only thing that the Congressmen have read was Petros blogs. Find a way to mainstream media!
@Bharat
Well, you certainly have given some thought to this, and from a practical point of view that might be easier to sell than a territorial system to the political class in this country. However, every time you come up with exceptions you then create new tax complexity and opportunities for abuse, so I still would rather have them abolish the damn thing altogether. The unemployed long removed from school should have the same opportunity to work overseas as a student just out of school without the complexity, fear of penalties and cost of Citizenship taxation.
My wife is an Australian, and she left Australia back in the 70’s right after school for her big OE, they call it. Overseas Experience. Her niece is doing that right now. Leaving to go travel and work without worrying about tax consequences and reporting back to Australia should she find a job. It is the way it should be.
On the other hand the other day, I was at the dentist, talking about her son who was in Paris where he is working right now. I felt compelled to warn her about the citizenship tax consequences that he was surely not considering. He is saving money, and so I gave her the FBAR warning as he was 1/2 way there to the $10k threshold. I thought about him, compared to my Australian niece now on her OE. I thought how lucky she is as contrasted to this poor American boy. She is care free, and he has to worry about filing taxes back to the US and not being penalized for failure. For her, taxes and account reporting is not anything she need consider, as Australia is smart enough not to have such stupid rules. It is tragic that America is so short sighted.
Anyway thanks for your thoughts and input. Certainly something to mull over. Maybe I could get Romney or Obama to read this? LOL.
@MarkTwain..
A lot of us are trying, and we appreciate you help too. One day, there will be a break through. Persistence is what it takes.
*I note that many of the very good messages coming out of Switzerland, such as the great work done by the ACA or renouncecitizenship, are automatically tainted with the images of bank secrecy and all of its baggage. *Anything coming out of Australia, Canada, Japan, etc helps bring out the message that this is not just cheaters complaining
@Mark Twain
“……Anything coming out of Australia, Canada, Japan, etc helps bring out the message that this is not just cheaters complaining.”
Ouch 😥
@Just Me: It is impossible to sell territorial based taxation to the political class. But Obama is pounding Romney for lack of new ideas. Also Obama is overwhelming favorite in the voter age group under 30 years. This kind of plan is attractive to this age group. It is possible to make a compelling case that it creates Jobs, while reducing spending without lose of any tax revenues in short term and huge potential for long term tax gains.
Yes it may add some complexity. But it can be minimized. For example, IRS can ask them to mail a copy of tax filings they made in respective countries each year (instead of FBAR and million other information forms). By publishing list of countries, IRS can eliminate potential losses due to tax heavens.
The US can’t make it a crime for young people to explore foreign cultures and gain knowledge capital. I am sending my son to foreign nation because, he has to struggle to survive in a new culture and this helps him gain confidence in himself and value of handwork, which will helpful rest of his life.
Let me revisit the IBM example. The IBM is investing/spending billions (in the form of salaries) in developing human resources and helped India catch up with US’s knowhow at the expense of IBM. IBM developed this knowhow for several decades and they have to use the latest technologies and processes to serve US clients, so they have to train the Indians in those technologies. If India said exporters must pay 40% taxes and threaten with dire consequences for inadvertent mistakes, India GDP growth rate still would be -2%. India is still hugely autocratic company, but they had to do that when they faced huge financial crisis and balance payment problem in 1991 (and would have become insolvent, if they hadn’t done some thing to earn foreign currency). So I am not saying India is smart, but they got lucky when they faced total distruction.
uhhhh, sorry UncleTell and all others who are doing a fantastic job in Switzerland. I will stick my foot farther in my mouth when I try to explain it off that “Switzerland” and “Cayman” bring instant connotations in the US media and population, and the great messages of the ACA are instantly attacked because of that. As a parallel, it was really difficult (brutal and dangerous) for the civil rights movement to fight the evils from the bottom up until some of the folks from the majority joined in and helped. The innocents in Switzerland are being hammered by the fallback of that UBS stuff and so are those of us in that other Sw country.
@bubblebustin—an anomymous FATCA is a hidden benefit. It gives an impression that the criticism is coming from a source other than us. I wondered as I read the article if he had intentionally been thinking of FATCA remaining anonymous, but the comments point out that he truly is motivated by other thoughts.
@Bharat, the devil is always in the details, isn’t it? I agree with Just Me in that the complexities in tax filing are the very details that make US citizenship a financial burden. The IRS would not be satisfied with only a copy of a tax filing from a foreign country. Let me give you an example: my husband and I sold our home in Canada and did not report the gain on our Canadian tax return, as the gain on the sale of a principal residence is exempt for Canadians and permanent residents. Surprise! Not so for the 2nd class Canadian- the US person!
That is a great article.
He misses it with his line about Ackerman’s word “exceptional”:
To my knowledge, the term “neo-con” cannot apply to Schumer. He is, from what I understand, a “liberal” (though “illiberal” really) democrat, a progressive. Ackerman doesn’t strike me as a “neo-con” either. We have to get used to the fact that our adversaries in the United States are both the conservatives and the illiberals, the regressives and the progressives, the idiots and the morons.
Actually neo-cons arose among ‘liberal’ democrats during the 1960s.
Early shapers and proponents of this new, aggressive conservatism include Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Norman Podhoretz, Diana Trilling, Seymour Martin Lipset, and Midge Decter.
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a30s50sneoconideology
Are Ackerman and Schumer neocons??
I think so!
On December 14, 2008 the New York Times published an article on Schumer’s role in the Wall Street meltdown. The article stated that Schumer embraced the industry’s free-market, deregulatory agenda more than any other Democrat in Congress, even backing measures now blamed for contributing to the financial crisis.[93] Schumer took steps to protect industry players from government oversight and tougher rules, a review of his record shows. Over the years, he has also helped save financial institutions billions of dollars in higher taxes or fees. He succeeded in limiting efforts to regulate credit-rating agencies. This article also charged that Schumer blocked ratings agencies reforms proposed by the Bush Administration and the Cox SEC.[93]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Schumer
We are living in competitive world and the dual citizens living abroad (e.g. in which they are grown up and for them for practical purposes the USA is a foreign country) have been put in competitive disadvantage. For example, to budding entrepreneurs or self-employed risk takers the burden of additional regulations is main difference between success and inevitable failure.
The additional burdens, uncertainty and threat of dire consequence for inadvertent or non-willful mistakes doom expats to failure, no differently than tying 5KGs to each leg of Olympic runner. No wonder, the US is suffering biggest trade deficient and any addition of more regulations only hurts its exports.
It is nearly impossible for a budding entrepreneur to succeed in a foreign nation, if he doesn’t relinquish his US citizenship. The overbearing regulations put any business at huge competitive disadvantage. Unfortunately the big players (e.g. GE, Intel, Google or Facebook) are able to buy tax loopholes to avoid the taxes. The small business owned by dual-citizens don’t unlikely to owe any taxes, but bear huge regulation burden no differently than Olympic high jumper forced to ware 15KG vest, while big companies able to buy tax loopholes to avoid paying their faire share.
Companies like IBM, Microsoft or Google have huge operations in China, India and other nations. I know many US collage graduates willing to work in foreign nations to gain experience and experience foreign culture. Every year, companies like Infosys receive thousands of resumes from people willing to work on low India salaries. Although salaries are very low compared to the US salaries, they can have decent living in low cost nations like India. I am in 50 and still love to work experience foreign culture in China or Japan, if I get a job opportunity. Encouraging young explorers and risk takers not only reduce un-employment, burden on government services and earn foreign currency when they visit the USA or when they return to the USA (bringing back their savings).
If citizenship based taxes are eliminated (at least 3 years after graduation as an experimintation) and encourage graduates to find jobs abroad, I am sure it is possible to create 2 to 3 million jobs for US citizens abroad in the operations of US companies alone such as GE or Google. It helps young graduates to quickly find a job and gain valuable experience, which helps them find better job in the USA.
People who migrate have better chance to succeed. I was successful in the USA, because I have to work hard to survive. If I had stayed back in India, I could have got by in my life without working hard. If US graduates live in India or China, they would understand the value of savings, which would help them in the future after returning to the USA.
Sorry for the long rant.
@ Petros
“We have to get used to the fact that our adversaries in the United
States are both the conservatives and the illiberals, the regressives
and the progressives, the idiots and the morons.”
That was very well put. I have no say as to which version of the same as the other is elected but I can still bristle about the consequences of US elections which change nothing of substance. BTW if liberals are “illiberals”, what does that make conservatives?
I think I’ll answer my own question above. Liberals are “illiberals” and Conservatives are “con-u-servatives”.
As I read these articles I realize that we are on the front line of a very important moment in history. We are witnessing/experiencing on a daily basis the end of the United States of America. The U.S. is like a chicken running around with its head cut off. Everybody but the chicken knows that the chicken is dead.
At exactly the moment when the U.S. needs friends and support (think of the debt) it is creating enemies in every part of the world. Examples include:
1. FATCA – Yes, let’s invade the financial sovereignty of other nations.
2. Drone strikes in Pakistan – Yes, let’s invade the territorial sovereignty of other countries.
3. Citizenship Based Taxation – Yes, let’s steal directly from other countries.
4. FBAR – Yes, let’s make our citizens report on the financial activities of citizens and institutions of other countries
5. U.S. immigrants – Yes, let’s attack them for not reporting bank accounts they have at home and didn’t know they should report
6. Patriot Act – running roughshod over the constitutional rights of U.S. citizens
7. The amount of debt owed to China – The interest payments on the debt provide a revenue stream to China to build the Chinese military
the list goes on and on.
But, I suspect that history will show that citizenship-based taxation will be identified as a major reason for the end of the U.S. After all, the U.S. has created about seven million enemies who they refer to as U.S. citizens. They have lost their overseas “Ambassadors of Goodwill” (and to think that they were at no cost to the U.S.)
Well, as Forrest Gump would say:
“Stupid is as stupid does.”
The obvious question is why can’t the U.S. see this? The answer: the country is blinded by its own narcissism. None of the “Common Homelanders – Brave Jim in Houston”, “The Homelander Elite Core – Professor Ackerman and his ilk” nor the “U.S. government – Obama, Levin, Geithner, Kerry, etc.) is able to see what it is happening. They are completely blind.
On this note see:
http://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/2012/05/18/national-narcissism-and-u-s-citizenship-being-a-u-s-citizen-is-like-having-a-narcissist-for-a-parent/
Have any of the contributors to this blog considered the possibility that we are creating a document of major historical importance? Imagine if you could have read a blog of either the Loyalists or the Patriots during the years leading up to and during the American revolution? What a different story it would have told!
Who knows, maybe Petros will be the “Paul Revere” of this era. Would the wisdom of “Just Me” qualify him to be the new Benjamin Franklin?
Amazing!!
@renounce “The Isaac Brock Society” would be a catchy title for a movie, eh/huh?
Back to the article, Roger Pulvers compares the Ex-Patriot Act as a witch hunt, but nowhere does he mention FATCA or citizenship based taxation as compelling reasons to renounce US citizenship, as though he’s unaware of those two factors.
@bubblebustin
He renounced a long time ago. He probably has a limited awareness of the attack on U.S. citizens abroad. It’s too bad that comments cannot be posted to this article.
Yes I like “The Isaac Brock Society” as the title for a movie. Find somebody in the film business to produce it. If memory serves we developed the cast of characters in March/12. Check with Steven to see if he is still up for playing Douglass Shulman.
@renounce,
Indeed, so good thing that both Isaac Brock Society and Renounce U.S. Citizenship blogs now reside in Canada. We are writing history that must not be lost. Thanks for all of your insight.
@renounce, he has pretty good insight re the Expatriot Act. How could he have missed FATCA? I sent a notice to the editor re this.
Thought I would try to contact Roger who wrote the article. Since there was no contact information that I could find, I used an online email box with reference back to the article to send him this….
@Bharat
Long constructive rants are appreciated here. Especially if they help educate us, or add to a broader view. Actually I did not find yours especially ranting. It was just calling it like it is. Your analogy to the Olympic runner with 5 kg weight (You will have to explain to the Americans what a Kg is) is very apt. You and Roger Conklin see exactly alike on this.
BTW, you may have commented here in the past, and I have missed seeing it. If so, welcome aboard, if I failed to extend greetings. Appreciate your contribution. Come back often and bring some Indian mates! I enjoy immigrant perspectives. 🙂
@Bharat, Have to concur with Just Me. That was a very interesting and constructive comment. I think you are dead right about the opportunities for young graduates. This is the era of globalization and ideally the world should be wide open for talented people to go where they can do well and where they are needed. Americans (young or old) should not be discouraged or handicapped against participating in the global job market by their own government!
Thank you @Just me. The 5kgs is equal to 11 ponds. I hope that the US gives young graduates a chance to succeed in the emerging global economy. I hope, they introduce a program to encourage graduates to explore the world, before they return to the USA and settle down.
• As an experiment and incentive, completely exempt them from Tax filing obligation in certain circumstances, where we are sure that they don’t owe taxes to the USA. The parameters for automatic exemption may be defined as follows:
• Working in the high tax or low income countries like China, Japan, Singapore or India.
• Automatic exemption for first 5 years after graduation and younger than 27 years. If they start next Facebook in China, good for them. No tax filing obligation for 5 years.
• If they fear rich people may use this as a loop hole, one can put restriction based on their US wealth and/or US sourced investments.
I feel, we can’t get territorial based tax system, but since it can employee millions of jobs to young people abroad, this is a good idea for both republicans and democrats, who are not proposing any practical ideas to alleviate the un-employment or stop the free fall of US economy and image.
For example, the success of software industry in India is attributed to tax-exempt status to software exporters. It in fact generated more taxes, because although the companies are not paying taxes, it created millions of very high paying jobs, who are paying huge taxes. They helped fuel real-estate boom because the software people can afford high priced houses, which in turn fueled retail boom because it increased land prices making many small farmers instant millionaires, and so on.
For example, IBM alone has over 100,000 employees in India. Although IBM may not pay any direct taxes (but pay huge indirect taxes such as VAT or excise etc.), its high paying employs pay billion dollars in taxes. In fact the incentive is successful tax and employment generation program, because there won’t be such a big IBM’s operation without tax excemption. The IBM trained many people in India and latest technologies, processes and exposed to the US clients like banks and retail chains. Some of the employees can use this expertise to start their own businesses to help Indian businesses. It has build a huge knowledge capital, which is more valuable in long term than imaginary tax lost due to tax-free status for exporters.
The US must stop imposing huge tax filing burden on imaginary possibility of tax on businesses and people. I feel, Romney would win election if he can propose this kind of tax generation plan, because he can prove that it generates real taxes and huge employment, while reducing demand on US infrastructure and services (saving lot of money to both state and central governments).
The IRS must stop going after imaginary or notional taxes. No college grad goes to work abroad to evade taxes. He gains valuable knowledge capital, which is valuable asset that generates more taxes when he returns to the USA.
I hope some body higher ups in Presidential campiness could discover this kind of practical ideas to increase taxes and reduce government spending.
*This points out the importance of getting to the media. Japan times is quite insignificant to USA decision makers.
I sent an email to Rush Limbaugh as he has a wide audience, not because I like him, with links to the most relevant information. Perhaps he will pick it up.
I sent an email to a neighbor who has worked in the center of Swedish media, and have tried to call, with no success yet.
Writing to congressmen has had absolutely zero effect. Media and lobbyists (votes and campaign money) are the only things with effect.
We can see that the only thing that the Congressmen have read was Petros blogs.
Find a way to mainstream media!
@Bharat
Well, you certainly have given some thought to this, and from a practical point of view that might be easier to sell than a territorial system to the political class in this country. However, every time you come up with exceptions you then create new tax complexity and opportunities for abuse, so I still would rather have them abolish the damn thing altogether. The unemployed long removed from school should have the same opportunity to work overseas as a student just out of school without the complexity, fear of penalties and cost of Citizenship taxation.
My wife is an Australian, and she left Australia back in the 70’s right after school for her big OE, they call it. Overseas Experience. Her niece is doing that right now. Leaving to go travel and work without worrying about tax consequences and reporting back to Australia should she find a job. It is the way it should be.
On the other hand the other day, I was at the dentist, talking about her son who was in Paris where he is working right now. I felt compelled to warn her about the citizenship tax consequences that he was surely not considering. He is saving money, and so I gave her the FBAR warning as he was 1/2 way there to the $10k threshold. I thought about him, compared to my Australian niece now on her OE. I thought how lucky she is as contrasted to this poor American boy. She is care free, and he has to worry about filing taxes back to the US and not being penalized for failure. For her, taxes and account reporting is not anything she need consider, as Australia is smart enough not to have such stupid rules. It is tragic that America is so short sighted.
Anyway thanks for your thoughts and input. Certainly something to mull over. Maybe I could get Romney or Obama to read this? LOL.
@MarkTwain..
A lot of us are trying, and we appreciate you help too. One day, there will be a break through. Persistence is what it takes.
*I note that many of the very good messages coming out of Switzerland, such as the great work done by the ACA or renouncecitizenship, are automatically tainted with the images of bank secrecy and all of its baggage.
*Anything coming out of Australia, Canada, Japan, etc helps bring out the message that this is not just cheaters complaining
@Mark Twain
“……Anything coming out of Australia, Canada, Japan, etc helps bring out the message that this is not just cheaters complaining.”
Ouch 😥
@Just Me: It is impossible to sell territorial based taxation to the political class. But Obama is pounding Romney for lack of new ideas. Also Obama is overwhelming favorite in the voter age group under 30 years. This kind of plan is attractive to this age group. It is possible to make a compelling case that it creates Jobs, while reducing spending without lose of any tax revenues in short term and huge potential for long term tax gains.
Yes it may add some complexity. But it can be minimized. For example, IRS can ask them to mail a copy of tax filings they made in respective countries each year (instead of FBAR and million other information forms). By publishing list of countries, IRS can eliminate potential losses due to tax heavens.
The US can’t make it a crime for young people to explore foreign cultures and gain knowledge capital. I am sending my son to foreign nation because, he has to struggle to survive in a new culture and this helps him gain confidence in himself and value of handwork, which will helpful rest of his life.
Let me revisit the IBM example. The IBM is investing/spending billions (in the form of salaries) in developing human resources and helped India catch up with US’s knowhow at the expense of IBM. IBM developed this knowhow for several decades and they have to use the latest technologies and processes to serve US clients, so they have to train the Indians in those technologies. If India said exporters must pay 40% taxes and threaten with dire consequences for inadvertent mistakes, India GDP growth rate still would be -2%. India is still hugely autocratic company, but they had to do that when they faced huge financial crisis and balance payment problem in 1991 (and would have become insolvent, if they hadn’t done some thing to earn foreign currency). So I am not saying India is smart, but they got lucky when they faced total distruction.
uhhhh, sorry UncleTell and all others who are doing a fantastic job in Switzerland. I will stick my foot farther in my mouth when I try to explain it off that “Switzerland” and “Cayman” bring instant connotations in the US media and population, and the great messages of the ACA are instantly attacked because of that. As a parallel, it was really difficult (brutal and dangerous) for the civil rights movement to fight the evils from the bottom up until some of the folks from the majority joined in and helped. The innocents in Switzerland are being hammered by the fallback of that UBS stuff and so are those of us in that other Sw country.
@bubblebustin—an anomymous FATCA is a hidden benefit. It gives an impression that the criticism is coming from a source other than us. I wondered as I read the article if he had intentionally been thinking of FATCA remaining anonymous, but the comments point out that he truly is motivated by other thoughts.
@Bharat, the devil is always in the details, isn’t it? I agree with Just Me in that the complexities in tax filing are the very details that make US citizenship a financial burden. The IRS would not be satisfied with only a copy of a tax filing from a foreign country. Let me give you an example: my husband and I sold our home in Canada and did not report the gain on our Canadian tax return, as the gain on the sale of a principal residence is exempt for Canadians and permanent residents. Surprise! Not so for the 2nd class Canadian- the US person!