I came across the following remark from Don at hodgen.com :
Don says: May 9, 2012 at 8:32 pm
… Other interesting news, Michelle Backmann has become a Swiss Citizen, strange but true.
I wonder what her stance on FATCA is?
Oddly enough, Wikipedia has been updated to show that she is “American-Swiss” (born April 6, 1956) “is an American–Swiss Republican member of the United States House of Representatives … “
Very interesting.
It is not just someone born outside a country that should have to claim citizenship. For many like myself, born in the US but returned to Canada or some other country as children. We have never claimed US citizenship! I simply lived there as a child, even going to a US school has nothing to do with citizenship. For citizenship to be claimed I think a person needs to be 18 years of age, otherwise it should automatically expire. I think a law that would terminate citizenship for a dual citizen automatically, but gave the person the right to reclaim it for the rest of their life would be reasonable and would satisfy the fourteenth amendment. The supreme court when, they said that the fourteenth amendment gave US citizenship to anyone born on US soil did so as to not violate a persons right. In so doing the inadvertently said that you have a lifelong tax obligation. While it may be fair to protect my right to citizenship, it is not fair at all to give me the responsibility of taxes that go with a citizenship that I have never asked for or claimed.
@John
Well we will never know for sure because there is no public list of renounced Swiss citizens(I mean exactly what I say as in she is lying). I wonder though how much political pushback exactly was there over this she seemed to backpedal pretty fast.
And, if anyone has missed it — CONGRATULATIONS to pacifica777! A much more important story than Michelle Bachman’s wishy-washy change of mind over her second citizenship.
Pacifica has been granted her relinquishment and is the real Queen for A Day at Isaac Brock. Her accomplishment is now enshrined in the Relinquishment and Renunciation database at http://isaacbrocksociety.com/2012/03/14/draft-pdf-compilation-of-relinquishment-and-renunciation-data-as-reported-on-isaac-brock/.
@calgary411
Did she get a backdated CLN?
Congratulations Pacifica!
Maybe Michelle Bachman learned Switzerland has the “crown jewel of socialism” which she is so vehemently opposed to–universal health care.
In any case, I find this whole fiasco a real insult to what it means to be a citizen. For an elected official of any country to so casually take on and then quickly discard the citizenship of a country where she has never lived is an affront to anyone who values citizenship.
I
Tim, Pacifica will post something soon so I don’t want to jump in. I saw that no one picked up on that important piece of news on the Michelle Bachmann post. In my mind, Pacifica’s is the more important story. Stay tuned.
TrueNorth — please see latest post: http://isaacbrocksociety.com/2012/05/10/todays-new-york-times-article-re-the-very-innocent-and-appropriately-named-accidental-americans/.
You’re absolutely right, the concept of “Accidental American” is not fair — the claim of citizenship should be a choice for those so-affected! Pure common sense, to say nothing of justice.
@Petros
Only those who naturalise take an oath. She had to register her citizenship because her husbands Swiss status was not registered in Switzerland at the time of marriage.
I’m not denying that she had to actively apply to seek citizenship, but citizenship by descent or automatically acquired through marriage does not imply taking an oath, since that applies that the citizenship wasn’t acquired automatically. If she had been married later on she would have had to apply and naturalise as a spouse of a Swiss citizen after it was no longer acquired automatically through marriage.
Personally, I am glad that Italy, for example, got rid of automatic citizenship through marriage. I think that is a farce and cheapens citizenship when it can be acquired without any waiting period nor taking into account whether the spouse even wants to obtain another citizenship. Regardless, I agree with you that oath or no oath a sitting US congresswoman probably shouldn’t have acquired a foreign citizenship in the first place. John’s link above seems to just confirm that she made a stupid move. She must be the only person in history to renounce a Swiss citizenship days after acquiring it.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/05/michele-bachmann-wont-go-swiss-after-all/52187/
“I took this action because I want to make it perfectly clear: I was born in America and I am a proud American citizen. I am, and always have been, 100 percent committed to our United States Constitution and the United States of America.”
Yesterday her husband was “100 percent” Swiss too. Typical politician panicking after a big PR blunder 😛
Dear Michelle Bachman, members of Congress, Barach Obama and IRS: Since swearing allegiance to Canada 40 years ago, I want to make it perfectly clear: I am a proud Canadian citizen. I have for 40 years been 100 percent committed to Canada, to Canadian laws and values and not to those of the foreign government of United States of America. Please butt out of my life and the lives of others around the world.
hey Blaze, nice … what looks to be an Red Coat from a distance??
Michelle Bachmann. I had no idea she was married to a “foreigner” (how did GW II pronounce that?– fur-re-ner?).
Good for her that she got Swiss citizenship. Now I hope she becomes a member of the Isaac Brock Society :-). Hahah, that would be a good one.
Anyway, this is good because maybe now she’ll be ** closer to the issues ** that we have been facing, at least until some of us have renounced / relinquished.
WTF?
Bachmann renounced her Swiss citizenship after only one day? An amazing flip-flop — hard to top that one.
I just lost all respect (which wasn’t much) that I had for her.
She definitely deserves the “don’t let the door hit you in the @$$” award from the Swiss.
Ohhh darn it, I was hoping we’d get lucky and she’d go and stay in Switzerland!
@Whoa: Switzerland lucked out. Their excellent universal health care scared her sick.
You’ve got to be kidding me… she already renounced? I don1t believe it, what about her kids, and her husband? She may say she renounced Swiss Citizenship, but where’s the proof?
@Geez: Yep, that’s me in my Brock uniform–complete with sword! Saddened says that’s what caused the US border guard to wave me across without a word about my US place of birth a couple of weeks ago.
And, yes, it’s true Michelle Bachmann has already renounced. Here’s an article http://climateerinvest.blogspot.ca/2012/05/michele-bachman-renounces-swiss.html
Did this woman really want to be President just a few months ago? As a feminist, I never imagined some of the first female contenders for the US President and VP would be the likes of Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman. But, I always did say we would achieve equality when there were as many incompetent women in positions of responsibility as there were incompetent men. It seems that day is getting ever closer!
Give me back Geraldine Ferraro and Flora MacDonald (OK, I’m showing my age!). I like Hilary Clinton too, but she achieved too much of her success through Bill–or maybe in spite of him!
@Blaze, I love you in your uniform! I think we all should have one. Anyone that comments on Isaac Brock should have one..And the sword as well..
Wow, what a bunch of discussion that sparked. I’m not sure exactly what has just happened, as I just woke up.
9 Mai 2012 Swiss Francophone TV confirms that Bachmann is Swiss: http://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/3981705-l-ex-candidate-a-la-maison-blanche-michele-bachmann-est-suisse.html See her video interview— she seems really happy about Switzerland.
10 Mai 2012 She writes a letter of renunciation? http://climateerinvest.blogspot.ca/2012/05/michele-bachman-renounces-swiss.html (link from Blaze) What I cannot understand is how she could renounce so quickly. If I were the Swiss foreign minister I would admonish her for being so “unreliable”!!
What in the H is going on? How can she be happy about Switzerland one moment and renounce the next because of her political aspirations? Switzerland is a neutral country. Switzerland is not “ruled” by social democrats, the Swiss People’s Party (conservative center-right) is the largest party in the country. We have just had the misfortune of having a socialist president last year (Calmy-Rey, who was elected by parliament, not by the people, the People’s Party has raised a constitutional initiative to change this practice). The current president Widmer-Schlumpf is part of the Bourgeois Democratic Party, an offshoot of the Swiss People’s Party (although I am pissed off with her because she seems to be kneeling before the US just like Calmy-Rey did).
At least we have a bloody universal health care scheme that offers some minimum mandatory couverage, and options to the consumer to purchase the level of insurance (s)he wants. Basic insurance is guaranteed though– no outrageous premiums for pre-existing condition. And we still have our guns! (I know that some of you at IBS don’t like guns, but Switzerland is a bit like the US in this matter, we don’t have a 2nd Amendment but there is article 58 and 59 which REQUIRE male citizens to take up arms to defend the country). And at least for the moment we don’t have gang violence like the US does. This just goes to show you that there is no clear right-left us and them. The two-party system in the US is part of the problem. There should be more parties. And a constitutional amendment requiring bills to be about one subject at a time: no more riders. No more forcing other politicians to vote for HIRE for example, because it is supposed to create jobs, despite its investment-disencouraging FATCA provisions.
@Don Pomodoro as to — May 10, 2012 at 5:43 pm above.
I do not believe that Bachmann could have acquired Swiss Citizenship through simple registration. She would have had to go through what we call a “facilitated naturalization”. Since Bachmann appears to have her primary residence in the US, this means that she would had to have lived with her Swiss husband for 6 years abroad (3 years of marriage if she was living in Switzerland for at least 5 years) and show that she has ties to Switzerland (friends, frequent visits, interest in Swiss culture, knowledge of a national language such as French, German/Swiss German, Italian, Reto-rumatsch.)
The normal naturalization process can be entered into after 12 years of legal residence (I think that this is in the process of being changed, I could go into the details in another post because I don’t have time to research the sources and the new system I heard about would require *permenant* residence for a lesser number of years before applying, but the waiting time for obtaining permenant residence could be reduced for those who are “integrated”).
The normal naturalization process requires a 2-year or longer administrative delay (depends upon the Canton though) with lots of documents to submit and interviews. In some Cantons the police come to your door and look around your house to see if you actually live there and if you behave like a Swiss person.
The “facilitated” process takes a little over a year and requires a few documents such as criminal record, credit report, motivation letter, and at least one personal interview with a cantonal naturalization official (I don’t know how they deal with naturalization abroad, maybe consular officials conduct the interview).
As to Obama, he was not a Kenyan citizen until the new constitution was voted in summer of 2010, at which point he would have had (and has) the option to register himself as a Kenyan (under the prior constitution he lost Kenyan citizenship automatically at the age of majority because he is a US citizen). I don’t know about Indonesia. Probably he was considered an Indonesian by his school in Indonesia because his stepfather was Indonesian. After Obama leaves office, he could certainly become Kenyan again if he wants.
@Jefferson Thomas
How was her citizenship “automatic through marriage” then? I admit to not being an expert on Swiss citizenship law, but in France and Italy where this very much was “automatic” once upon a time, marrying a Frenchman or Italian literally gave you citizenship that very day. No wait time, interview, language competency test, nothing. Naturally, everyone, including the Swiss, saw the folly of this and tightened up the citizenship by marriage route a long time ago 🙂
I’m interested in hearing though – What is the new prospective amount of time to wait for those obtaining Swiss nationality that you heard? I never thought that they would make the requirements easier since the changes always seem to get shot down in referendums. I have a cousin who has lived there forever and he only just got it now. He had been there 18 years or something but had to wait longer due to switching Cantons too often! Do some of the Cantons still outlaw naturalisation entirely or allow that awful popular vote to determine outcomes?
Ok, here is the confirmation, published only this morning European time, that Bachmann is asking to renounce:
http://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/3985571-l-ultra-droite-americaine-michele-bachmann-ne-veut-plus-etre-suisse.html. Appearantly she obtained Swiss nationality the 19th of March.
If her husband already had Swiss nationality when they were married in 1978, that means that SHE WAS ALREADY SWISS because at the time, females received Swiss citizenship automatically upon marriage to a Swiss citizen, the system changed sometime in the (80’s??) but I don’t know, it may be that her husband had effectively lost Swiss citizenship due to the previous US non-acceptance of dual nationality.
I am really pissed off with her now. How could she ask for citizenship and then just get rid of it because of political pressure? She should have known what becoming Swiss would mean: she would have dual nationality!!!!! How could she not know? Hello folks, she is a LAWMAKER??? Does she not know what laws do? She is not 100% American. There is no such thing. We are all descended from people who immigrated from all over the world. Despite the melting pot, many of us want to re-establish ties with our ancestors, this is normal. Bachmann was not cheating the US by becoming a Swiss citizen! She is a female! She would never have been drafted into the army! She would never have been summoned for electoral jury duty unless she actually lived in Switzerland! Switzerland is a neutral country!!
How dare she obtain Swiss nationality, only to renounce less than 2 months later? I wonder if our officials will accept her renouncement or make her pay 450 francs and make her wait for 6 months. They should! Oh, and I forgot, we can still FATCA and FBAR her if she comes to visit us.
@Don Pomodoro as to — May 11, 2012 at 3:06 am
I think my above post (our posts crossed in terms of time) explains more. In Switzerland today, spouses need to be naturalized just like anybody else, but they get expedited treatment.
@Jeff Exactly. The manner in which these events suggests frivolity on the part of the lawmakers, Bachmann, Carl Levin, passing laws which if we scrutinize their own behaviour would condemn them too. Mitt Romney’s offshore accounts–does he plan to loosen the filing requirements so that expats can breathe easy or continue to force millions of people to file who can’t afford the tax professionals that he, being a multi-millionaire, can easily afford.
Had Bachmann bothered to pay any attention at all to the so-called “birther” controversy, which raises very important issues of about citizenship, she would have realized that taking the citizenship of another country is toxic. This is why Obama and his sycophantic media completely ignores the possibility that he is or ever has been a dual citizen. But obviously, if she was paying attention, she didn’t understand the issues at all.
The other question is whether Bachmann will have to wait a year, like I did, to get proof of her loss of citizenship. In the meantime, she should be barred from holding public office or being allowed to see classified documents.
Well, I hope Switzerland denies her right to renounce like the US has done with some people, or charge an exit tax, or file and FBAR first. They may not get any tax revenue, but it would be good reciprocal harrassment.
@geez
I don’t think the Swiss gov’t will make the same mistakes as the U.S. does 😉