Thanks to Phil Hodgen for his meeting with the IRS about #RRSP issues – also comments on #FBAR hodgen.com/irs-meetings-t… – One more step forward!
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) May 8, 2012
Phil’s blog post is a “must read” (The Isaac Brock Society is mentioned). Full of all kinds of great ideas – including teaching how people how to get at “Private Letter Ruling”. Also, some interesting “non legal advice” thoughts on the FBAR problem. You will find the actual paper that was submitted to the IRS here. The paper was supported by the New York Society of CPAs.
Phil, thanks again for your help and support!
SO DO I! BUT I instinctively fear that renouncing shortly after a huge disclosure could make me even more of a target. On the other hand, I would like to think that ad I’m obviously not a whale, nor with significant assets in the USA, that the IRS will honour my sincere efforts to correct my past commissions and be merciful with my good faith disclosures and genuine efforts to become fully compliant and a ‘faithful tax citizen’.
SO DO I! BUT I instinctively fear that renouncing shortly after a huge disclosure could make me even more of a target. On the other hand, I would like to think that ad I’m obviously not a whale, nor with significant assets in the USA, that the IRS will honour my sincere efforts to correct my past
ommissions and be merciful with my good faith disclosures and genuine efforts to become fully compliant and a ‘faithful tax citizen’.
@ Roy Berg, The instructions for Form 8891 ( http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8891.pdf ) :
So in other words, the distinction between employer RRSP and individual RRSP that you make is not made in the instructions for Form 8891. It seems to me that if the IRS was ritually making such a distinction, the instructions would make it clear between which kinds of RRSPs are allowable and which are not.
@monalisa1776
renouncing is not a treasonous act, treason has a limited legal definition. when I renounced, I was still considered an officer of the US subject to recall to active duty. The strongest language in DOS and DOD documents is ¨expatriation is inconsistent wtih my oath of office¨
@rivka88,
Thanks for your info for monalisa.
monalisa, please refer to renounce’s advice to us all above — to relax and not worry about the whole big picture as it will drive us all crazy(ier). Take care.
mona – I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to keep ties to the US, even though you may not actually live there.
For the past few weeks, I’ve been asking myself the following two questions:
1- What if I needed to go back to live and work?
2- What would I do there!?
At least for #2, I haven’t found an answer yet. My wife has a friend who is married to an American. They went to the US for a few years and then came back to Brazil. I guess they didn’t like it there.
I still have some time because I’m not going to renounce until my Brazilian citizenship papers move forward.
But like recalicantexpat said, you are very brave to trust Washington. I have yet to see them act “reasonably” and sensibly with expats. I have just seen the screws get tightened and baseless rhetoric get turned up, with the help of the media. If the US were reasonable, like every other country on the planet, except Eritrea, renunciation for me would be out-of-the-question. It’s a shame they aren’t like all the other countries.
Like someone else said, I think renounceuscitizenship, the US really seems to live in an alternate reality.
@Rivka, Calgary, and Geeez, I appreciate your empathy very much. It’s true that I’m driving myself to despair with worry: not just about the IRS, but about what my accountant’s going to be charging me. They know they can charge more or less as they please as they realise they have me over a barrel.
I almost resent the industry of professionals whom I’m artificially dependent on to do the complex PFIC calculations more than the IRS, itself. They know I have little bartering power at least for the 2011 tax return…but I have to keep reminding myself how they spared me from the OVDI fertiliser factory, etc.
@monalisa1776- if not for the IRS you wouldn’t need the professionals. So the IRS and Congress are the one’s who should receive your full wrath. The professionals would not have your money if it wasn’t for them.
@Petros
Great minds must think alike.
Thanks for that clarity on the 8891 instructions. I received the exact same response from my Accountant regarding this matter.
To quote his words. “if it ain’t on the page it ain’t on the stage”
I think it is safe to say that a citizen (i will use Canadian as an example) would have good backing if he or she was to refer to the 8891 instructions whilst the IRS tried to make a claim for distinction between ‘individual’ and ’employer sponsored’ plans.
This process is much like flying….hours of boredom injected with moments of shear terror.
@Recaltitrant, too true. I can’t wait to get all this finally behind me.
I can’t remember of this has been posted on IsaacBrockSociety. I apologize if it already has.
I found this link that says that the FBAR/FATCA Task Force of the American Democrats Abroad has been asked to participate in an IRS hearing being held on May 15 in Washington DC in relation to FBAR and FATCA issues, amd is asking for our stories. They have a link to a survey to take.
http://blogs.angloinfo.com/us-tax/2012/05/05/fbarfatca-relief-effort-let-your-voice-be-heard/
Please fill it in if you get the chance!
Elizabeth May (leader of the Green Party in Canada) is asking for our priorities in a survey. Did it — guess which category I picked? (Hint 2nd from the bottom and FATCA for “other”.) If anyone else would care to chime in …
http://elizabethmaymp.ca/survey/may2012
@Christophe,
Thanks for the reminder for anyone who has not yet given or considered giving their story. Here was the original post http://isaacbrocksociety.com/2012/05/03/democrats-abroad-urgently-requests-expat-tax-stories-for-may-15th-irs-hearing/.
@Em
Good find. Elizabeth May is most interested in the problems of American born – Canadians, as she herself is one. Of all the politicians and bueracrats that I wrote regarding FATCA and the U.S. tax issues, her response was definitely the most thoughtful response. She even added a personal note in her own handwriting to the letter.
@monalisa1776- just a classic case of “Stockholm Syndrome”
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=24038
@ tiger
I’ve always had a good response from Elizabeth May on whatever issue I’m concerned with at the moment. I never get anything back from Harper though and so far nothing back from Flaherty re: FATCA either.
@monalisa and All,
I guess I feel much differently from Mona in the professionals I have helping me. I am paying dearly, but I have to feel confidence in what they are doing for me and my son (and, by extension, other families). Worry not — I feel very sorry for myself that this is happening to me; I resent having to use my retirement savings for getting out from under my “supposed” USA citizenship. This is the fight of my life and the life of my son so we can go forward without this burden.
I absolutely could not do this by myself!!!! I don’t have the background, the education, the intestinal fortitude to fight this by myself. I need the help of professionals — ones that my gut tells me I can trust. (I have let go one US tax attorney from New York who was doing absolutely nothing for me.) I see and feel the difference in the professionals I now have helping me. I am glad for the long education they undertook, their years of practice and the expertise they now have. I also like the fact that both are down to earth and I can talk to them, which is something important to me.
I know that the former CA who did my Canadian and US taxes will no longer do US taxes — she says it just isn’t worth the time and what she would have to charge her clients, especially with the new 8938. I think finding a professional that can truly help end this horror is difficult. I am fortunate to be in Calgary — I don’t know where some have to go to find help. Yes, professionals are expensive and they come in varying degrees of expertise and reliability. I believe they do have professional standards they must meet. If cost was my only criteria, and I know it is for so many which I am truly up in arms about, I would go to H&R Block — except that they did my daughter’s US taxes when she came back to Canada to live and the US sent her a notice to appear in Tax Court and gave her an outrageous fine. H&R Block did nothing to help remedy THEIR mistake — she had to solve it herself with the IRS and she did, so I’m proud of her.
That’s why I have to do what I do. For others, the choice will be different. So, because I am not savvy enough to figure this out for myself, this is the only way I can get through it all without becoming a raving maniac. Some of you are much stronger; most of you are more educated; none have more passion than I have for everyone of us getting through this nightmare.
I isolate myself from friends because I don’t want to subject them to me — I don’t like listening to myself / I don’t want to lose friends over this. I thank all that is holy that my husband and I are still together. He has put up with a lot and supports what I choose to do (although he might choose a different path).
I’m thankful for the help of the professionals I’ve chosen. I’m thankful for the Isaac Brock site. I am thankful for the support of all of you — and your own varying ways of dealing with this. It helps to look at other points of view.
May our government representatives represent us properly. May the US come to its senses regarding the folly of citizenship taxation. May we all have better days ahead.
@calgary 411. Yes, it truly is nice to have support here. Not only do you have to worry about the outcome as it effects you, you are responsible for a child who will need an advocate for the rest of his life as he can’t renounce. I can only imagine your worry. Have hope that sanity may once again restored in our lives!
@ calgary 411
You are situated among the brighter bulbs at IBS and the words of support you generously pour on others who are wandering in the desert of stress the IRS has created are cherished. Thank you. And as for that last paragraph — AMEN!
Since renouncing I have talked with 10 different IRS reps and they have never flinched when I explained that I gave up my US citizenship. Recently when I called I was told that my Social Security Number was no longer valid which I hope means my Certificate of Loss of Nationality is on its way. I have started the plans for my fabulous Canada Day party!
@em- I don’t think that I would expect to hear anything back from the Finance Minister. He has pretty well said all that he can say publicly for now. There can be little doubt that Canada and the U.S. are engaged in some very heated discussions at the moment and for the Minister to say anything before the conclusion of these talks would probably jeapordize any progress that has been made so far.
Those are just my thoughts on the matter.
@Em, You are so right about Calgary411 she is one of the Brightest Bulbs on IBS. She is a real sweetheart!!
@recalcitrant,
That can be our hope — it’s the only way I can rationalize the silence.
A lot of us will be with you in spirit at your Canada Day party, Peg. You’ve earned that Canada Day party!!! I feel in your words the joy in moving on in your life. Congratulations!
bubblebustin, Em, saddened,
Thanks.
I hear you, geeez.