Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

The Isaac Brock Society

Posted on by Posted in Issues regarding US persons abroad 46 Comments

Here it is:

http://bsmlegal.com/PDFs/NZ.pdf

They don’t know quite what they want other than they want KiwiSaver plans exempted. JustMe and Moby might want to call their NZ MPs and have a word with them. They also claim to have extensive information sharing between NZ IRD and US IRS.

Perhaps you might want to have a word with Danie Beukman, Second Secretary at the New Zealand Embassy in Washington.

Another group I suspect might be interested in this letter I suspect would be the NZ Greens and NZ Labour.

Update: Call Danie Beukman on Monday. Really he works pretty closely with the US House Ways and Means committee. He is pretty active on Twitter also.

46 thoughts on “New Zealand Government position on FATCA”

  1. @Just Me, and @tiger, it is very scary what legislators do without public discussion or general consent. It makes me feel like ordinary citizens are just pawns – and we’ll wake up to find that the world has been reconfigured around us overnight. The argument that a slim or technical majority in an election gives a government the mandate to do anything and everything they might have in mind is the usual rejoinder when challenged. And it is those with access to the proceedings via biggest assets that get to be called ‘stakeholders’, and influence/design the outcome – not your average individual taxpayers.

  2. @badger: ochlocracy — “Ochlocracy … is democracy … spoiled by demagoguery, “tyranny of the majority” and the rule of passion over reason…”

  5. I see Peter Dunne, MP from NZ tweeted about the proposed NZ IGA….

    https://twitter.com/PeterDunneMP/status/261230056569987073

    Can’t be a bad guy, I see he is a sailor!

    I responded here…

    https://twitter.com/FATCA_Fallout/status/261526224818540545

    I also see the IRD tweeted about this, but I did not respond..  In a small country no sense drawing their attention to me.  Besides they don’t make the policy

    https://twitter.com/NZInlandRevenue/status/261258871694319617

  9. Just a cross reference to a John Brown post on the Ask your FATCA question thread.

     NZ to Negotiate FATCA Agreement With US

    “Without an inter-governmental agreement, financial institutions would have
    to enter into separate agreements……………and risk being in conflict with New
    Zealand’s privacy and human rights laws”.

  10. Tax evasion harder now – NZ Government

    https://twitter.com/FATCA_Fallout/status/263500120664965120
    https://twitter.com/FATCA_Fallout/status/263498548136513536

    Tax evasion has become “significantly more difficult” now the Government has signed an international convention which allows Inland Revenue to ask for information from tax authorities in other countries, Revenue Minister Peter Dunne says.

    The Convention on Mutual Administrative Assistance in Tax Matters also allows IRD to ask for help in collecting tax from absconding taxpayers who have moved overseas.

    “International co-operation in tax matters is critical to ensuring that everyone pays their fair share of tax,” Mr Dunne says. “Being a signatory to this convention is one more nail in the coffin for tax evasion.”

    The convention was drafted by the OECD and the Council of Europe.

    So far 42 countries have signed it and 10 more have formally signalled their intention to sign it.

  11. Latest news regarding IGA consultation is  there is no set date for submissions or public consultation, however legislation to give effect to an IGA is likely to be introduced to Parliament in the first half of 2013 and then will be referred to a select committee. It is at this point that the select committee would typically call for submissions.

  12. *Just Me

    I can hardly imagine the US being happy with this being sent to a select committee. There is an incredibly high risk of a select committee voting down the implementation legislation and blowing this whole thing up.

  14. Got a response from the NZ Minister of Revenue (or his staff, more likely) regarding my letter. All bad news I’m afraid.

    His staff did read my lengthy letter, which is a credit to them. They understand the implications for 60,000 NZers and they are charging ahead with the IGA regardless, for the greater good (as they see it). The most telling comment is this gem (excerpted):

    “[…] However, New Zealand respects the United States’ sovereign rights to tax its citizens, and impose penalties for non-compliance, in the best ways it sees fit. […]”

    Seeing as this is the official position of the NZ government, it’s game over.

    US-connected NZer. Bus. Thrown under.

    I guess my role now is to ensure that the consequences of the IGA decision come back to be hung around the necks of the decision-makers. By consequences I mean the imposition of FBAR penalties on US born Joe Kiwi who moved with his family to NZ at age 5, 30 years ago. I guess I just wait till it hits the news. Won’t be for a while though.

    I hope Canada’s politicians do better.

  15. @Re “[…] However, New Zealand respects the United States’ sovereign rights to tax its citizens, and impose penalties for non-compliance, in the best ways it sees fit. […]“

    Well, we know where they stand, I guess.

    Even if NZ has  to change your laws to allow them to do it here on your soil, eh?  Boy, have they no concept of sovereignty, do they?  Might as well bend over and give them what they want on their TPP too! 🙂  BTW, they have a sovereign right to steam their nuclear powered vessels into Auckland harbor too. I am sure John Key and Mike Moore believe this too.  

  16. Obviously they really don’t get the concept of US Person, and how broadly that definition can be…  It doesn’t have to be just a “US born Joe Kiwi ” caught out!

    Green Card Expats May Fall Under FATCA Tax Trap

    Expats may have to give up their hard-won green cards to stay ahead of the US tax man under controversial FATCA tax avoidance rules.

  17. Just a couple comments for Tim who seems to follow AU/NZ TPP activity.

    In the Fairfax Sunday Star*Times, which is NOT available on the internet, there were three stories that I just want to mention, in case they can be found later.

    They all deal with Kiwi/Australian concerns about Sovereignty loss, or bending to US rules.  I mention these, as it seems the sovereignty issue might be fruitful grounds for opposition to FATCA IGA.

    Kiwi spooks forced to come into the light.

    This story center around the role GSCB (Governement Communications Security Bureau) and “Echelon” (deep cover spy agency) involvement with the illegal snooping on Dotcom.

    “The Court also cleared the way for Dotcom to sue the GCSB and the police for damages.  This is an excellent ruling and Dotcom should take them both to the cleaners.  The police launched a ludicrous, over-the-top and illegal raid on the German tycoon’s house.  The GCSB spied on him and broke the law.  This was an intolerable assault by state agencies on a private citizen. It can not go unpunished!”

    Wouldn’t it be nice to see such words written about FATCA?  It went on to say

    This case suggests that both the spooks and the police were far too eager to help the FBI catch their man.  It is not their job to do this.  Their job is to act professionally and within the law and not to get caught up in anyone’s crusade, whether it is Hollywood’s or the FBI’s or the American Government’s campaign to impose it absurdly restrictive copyright rules upon the rest of the wold. 

    I could write exactly those words about FATCA.

    OZ sovereignty not for sale under TPP

    The Australian government is sticking by its refusal to let key trade deals include provisions allowing foreign companies to claim compensation for decisions that hurt their investments. 

    The latest round of Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) negotiations are taking place in Auckland

    “We are confident that the TPP negotiations can be concluded successfully without Australia having to give up important sovereign rights“, a senior official said 

    Again, I long to see the same words about ‘import sovereign rights‘ surface in the media here in relation to FATCA

    Police hurt in violence over trade talks

    Activities tried to force their way into SkyCity Hotel then lit a fire in the street during the march against the ongoing secrecy in the Trans-Pacific Partnership free trade negotiations in Auckland. 
    The Auckland meeting is the 15th round in the international trade talks involving 11 countries aiming to conclude the free trade agreement. Inside SkyCity were 500 negotiators from Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Mexico, Peru, Singapore, the US, Vietnam and New Zealand.
    The talks have attracted controversy because of their secrecy and concerns that a deal could extend corporate power into areas seen as national interests.

    Let’s grasp Asian realities, On trade, the prime minister is singing off-key writes rob Oram.

    The Government says the TPP has the potential to be “a truly regional, high quality, comprehensive, 21st centry trade and investment agreement”. BUT…the text on the table in the current round of negotiations in Auckland is largely a US push to impose its highly litigious and self-serving international trade and business mechanisms.  The US has hijacked TPP, seekiong to turn it into an instrument of geopolitical dominance. 

    Other stories from the New Zealand Herald, with links.

    Copyright clampdown 

    If you think opponents of the Trans Pacific Partnership are typically anti-free trade/anti-globalization conspiracy theorists, consider these unlikely bedfellows: librarians, software exporters, researchers … More

    Police attacked at TPP protest

    Another protester, Green MP Catherine Delahunty, said if the deal was really good for New Zealanders, then the Government wouldn’t be so secretive about its contents. “People should not lose their sovereignty because corporates think they can take over the world.”

    TPP anything but plain sailing

    The US is in the box seat for the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPP) negotiations but despite the Americans’ clear negotiating clout – obvious on the outskirts of the TPP talks at SkyCity Convention Centre – things are not plain sailing.

    The powerful US Chamber of Commerce has made it clear that the TPP deal is important to America’s future success and job creation

    The US agenda is in fact plain to see from the US Trade Representative Office down. Where it is not, negotiating texts have been deliberately leaked to flush out controversial issues. This is important as the TPP has morphed into effective “semaphore” for the competitive model which the US is promoting as it battles with China for supremacy in driving the economic integration platform for the Asia-Pacific.

    US face of trade talks

    Weisel is currently an assistant United States trade representative with responsibility for Southeast Asia and the Pacific. The TPP negotiation has an informal deadline to be finished by October 2013. It is the only negotiation the Obama Administration is doing at present but it is being done without the security of the Trade Promotion Authority (TPA) of Congress.

    TPA means that a concluded trade deal can’t be altered by Congress; it is either accepted or rejected. Not having TPA leaves it more vulnerable.

    But Weisel said she was conducting the talks in the same way she would have done with TPA.

  18. updating for the most recent editorial on the Trans Pacific Partnership negotiations going on in Auckland.  It is not FATCA related, but fascinating just the same,

    Jane Kelsey: Secret talks breed scepticism

    As for Pharmac, Trade Minister Tim Groser admitted to Inside US Trade he is “seeking reasonable compromises”. In language that betrays his own contempt for public debate, Groser said he was confident New Zealand could find ways to advance US interests “without causing projectile political vomiting in New Zealand, and many of the other countries of the TPP”.

  19. From Jatras…

    FATCA: the neutron bomb of the global financial system and New Zealand

    The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act 2010 (FATCA) provides a striking example of what could be called American fiscal imperialism. This time, the long arm of Uncle Sam is targeting American account-holders overseas, including those in New Zealand, who are allegedly avoiding their American tax responsibilities. FATCA establishes a tax regime in which foreign financial institutions (FFIs) report back on these American account-holders to the IRS, or face a potentially hefty withholding on payments that they receive directly or indirectly from the US.

  20. Just Me,
    don’t have the power to move posts, so just added it here (hadn’t see your Feb. 27/ 2013 request);

    http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/02/14/treasury-switzerland-sign-so-called-bilateral-agreement-iga-to-improve-tax-compliance-combat-international-tax-evasion-and-implement-fatca/comment-page-2/#comment-203663

    See:
    http://www.wnd.com/2013/02/obama-skirting-congress-in-globalist-plan/ “…..The issue centers on “fast-track authority,” a provision under the Trade Promotion Authority that requires Congress to review an FTA under limited debate, in an accelerated time frame subject to a yes-or-no vote.

    Under fast-track authority, there is no provision for Congress to modify the agreement by submitting amendments. Fast-track authority also treats the FTA as if it were trade legislation being negotiated by the executive branch. The purpose is to assure foreign partners that the FTA, once signed, will not be changed during the legislative process.

    A report released Jan. 24 by the Congressional Research Service, “The Trans-Pacific Partnership Negotiations and Issues for Congress,” makes clear the Obama administration does not have fast-track authority to negotiate the TPP, even though the office of the U.S. Trade Representative is acting as if fact-track authority is in effect……”

    (My note: this seemed to be an attempt similar to the tactic used re FATCA, and DATCA, to bypass Congress)

    See also, comments made here about FATCA: http://www.compasscayman.com/journal/2013/02/06/Taxes-FATCA-%E2%80%93-symbol-of-the-mercenary-tax-state/

    and, http://taxpol.blogspot.ca/2013/02/the-dubious-legal-pedigree-of-fatca.html

    Would be interesting to hear what Prof. Christians thinks about the Trans-Pacific Partnership. And, if the Congressional Research service did a report on whether Obama has the authority to act on the Trans-Pacific Partnership, was any Congressional Research service report done on FATCA (and DATCA)?

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