While this has been metioned prior US Senator Rand Paul has become quite vocal in his opposition to the US Senate ratifying several new tax treaties on what he calls Fourth Amendment grounds. Link below:
Comment gallore
While this has been metioned prior US Senator Rand Paul has become quite vocal in his opposition to the US Senate ratifying several new tax treaties on what he calls Fourth Amendment grounds. Link below:
Comment gallore
Now I understand better what is going on and why the IRS is after Americans who hide foreign accounts. I only don´t understand is how we Americans Living and Working Abroad were included on this.
Sorry, John, the U.S. lost credibility on this issue a long time ago – your country has already become a pathetic laughingstock, in case you never read the foreign press. And since when does the U.S. care what anyone thinks about their fatuous policies anyway? Dismantle FATCA and citizenship-based taxation and maybe the world community will have some reason to respect the United States again.
There are actually three protocols he is blocking ratification of one each with Switzerland, Luxembourg, and Hungary. The only way to break each hold without changing the rules of the US Senate is to subject each protocol to one week each of debate. Not going to happen. This is similar to what happened in the 1940s when the US Treasury submitted several treaties to the US Senate that would allow the IRS to collect non US tax debts in the US. The Senate refused to ratify them unless “US Citizens” were exempted from IRS collection on behalf of foreign governments hence the reciprocal Canada will not collect foreign/US tax on Canadian citizens. Some of the key people in blocking these treaties in the 1940s were in many ways the “tea party” types of their day such as Pat McCarran of Nevada(whom the Las Vegas Airport is named after). To be perfect honest Pat McCarran was a batshit crazy isolationst and staunch anti communist and the best friend of Franco regime in the US Congress. From what I rememember in my college history classes he had a pal named Homer Ferguson of Michigan who was also batshit crazy.
The thing you have to remember is almost of all the legislation we discuss here was never passed on a standalone basis. All were part of bigger omnibus bills. However, treaties must be ratified seperate from any other legislation and must be approved by 67 Senators thus it is very easy for a small number of Senators to block a treaty.
O’h I forgot Pat McCarran was the main sponsor of the 1952 Immigration Act. Check out his wikipedia bio.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_McCarran
Hopeful this week long discussion brings attention to the suffering of dual-citizens/expats living in foreign nations for decades and have little or no financial ties with the USA or no US sourced income.
If the pressure from the ex-pat community grows too much on John Kerry, perhaps he could take the 10 minute walk from his house in Beacon Hill to 138 St James Ave, Boston and go to the same restroom as his great-grandfather for a session of stress reduction –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fairmont_Copley_Plaza_Hotel
One other thing – these pols like John Kerry make me laugh, they try to persecute ex-pats for foreign bank accounts (who by the way have a legitimate purpose of having – to live) while at the same time engage in their own flavour of tax evasion within US borders.
Take the case of John Kerry’s $7M yacht, he registered it in RI saving himself over $500,000 in MA sales and excise taxes (his home state he represents as US Senator) while voting for the HIRE Act (with FATCA) which cracks down on middle-class ex-pats.
It doesn’t make sense. What do you have to say about that Senator Kerry? Somewhat out-of-touch with the ex-pat middle class?
http://bostonherald.com/track/inside_track/view/20100723senator_skipper_skips_town_on_sails_tax
@John
Kerry didn’t just vote for the HIRE Act. He consponsored the orginal FATCA legislation with Charlie Rangel.
What an hypocrisy? They try to evade taxes on expensive multimillion dollar toys, but pass laws to enforce penalties on after tax retirement savings or money saved for education of our kids after paying taxes, against middle class expats who don’t even owe any taxes to IRS.
May be ex-pats must try to contact him and educate honorable senator Rand Paul about the huge collateral damage it is causing ex-pats/dual-citizens living abroad. I am sure he needs lot of material for the debate, if this discussion ever goes for three weeks discussion. It may not change much, but some of them would know about the huge collateral damage.
@Tim – thanks for that Kerry is guilty by association.
Rand Paul’s father, Ron Paul, sponsored several bills to eliminate the cap on the foreign earned income exclusion. Both the Pauls are staunch believers in individual liberty and privacy. They also understand the value of expats for US exports.
They are the right people to write to, along with Paul Ryan.
Living over here in Europe for many years, the Paul’s politics would not be mainstream. But for ex-pat views they have my vote.
At least they say what’s on their minds and don’t worry about the next lobbyist paycheque like the mainstream idiots like Carl Levin, and the others who voted for FATCA.
Oh…watch John Boehner he put on a priceless performance the other day complaining about the Democrats making political capital over the student loan interest rates.
Just from reading some of the early comment letters from the UK financial industry Britain truely has caved on Fatca. As they say Britain is America’s poddle.
Now where are the comment letters from the Canadian Bankers Association and the Australian Bankers Association. Today is the deadline.
@Tim – do you have the link for the UK comment letters, I’d like to read them.
It looks like as I thought all along. The UK politicians are going to leave it up to the courts to decide the final version of FATCA.
I think dual EU/US citizens have rights that need to be enforced in EU courts such as discrimination by place of birth, nationality.
American with only US passports will get stuffed (except perhaps permanent residents).
This way the UK government can go back to the US and say it’s not us, it’s our courts. Nothing we can do about it.
It’s going to come down to citizenship in the end. The US will probably get data on accounts with American addresses, telephone numbers etc. However, the banks I hope will be forced to withhold resident EU citizens or else they’ll be a flood of renunciations at least in the beginning.
We’ll see what will happen. Dual citizens will then be subject to IRS scrutiny. I don’t think the US will get it 100% their way in the end.
The US is causing all this hassle minimal tax revenue and if someone is determine enough they can go to Switzerland, buy gold and put it in a safety deposit bank, in theory still come out ahead tax free and there’s not a damn thing the IRS can do about it.
It’s a farce. In the end I think the US is only after the data and will never withhold any money. That’s a bluff I don’t think they want to carry out – the US will suffer more in the long term if they started doing that.
If I ever get any nasty letters from the IRS they can get stuffed.
Interesting rumor I heard countries such as the UK, France etc who become full FATCA partners will report on everyone including US Person local residents. Countries such as Canada and Australia are NOT expected to signup as FATCA partners. As such the US will allow for a few years at least for institutions in those countries not to have to report on local resident US Persons and to be able to use existing mechanism to report on non resident accounts. However FFI’s in those countries will all have to sign individual FFI agreements with the IRS which will put them at disadvantage to institutions in the UK, France etc. Around 2016 the US will tighten the noose further and try force Canada into a full partnership agreement hoping by then all of us are no longer around.
Now there are some holes in this strategy to say the least however it does remind me a lot of way the US is negotiating Canada’s involvement in the Trans Pacific Partnership trade agreement. I’ll also note if the US goes ahead with the strategy and leaves Canada on the outside it will bifurcate the world into FATCA and non FATCA portions.
@Tim…
I just put up a post from NZ press. I note that the NZ banking association (owned mostly by the Australians) have endorsed the Australian Banking FATCA comments and apparently are not doing one of their own.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/6856768/US-taxmans-long-arm-threatens-costly-Kiwi-headaches
The Kiwis are way too passive in my opinion when you see comments like this… “Outright opposition was not an option” I am just stunned that so few countries have any balls when it comes to standing up to the US.