Hello Isaac? It’s me, Ladyhawk. Is there anyone here who still has US citizenship? Well, anyway, in case anyone is interested in how things are going for people like me who are still trying to make the dual thing work, I thought I’d tell you what happened when I went to the US Consulate in Toronto to renew my US Passport.
I’ve been in Canada since 1969, took out Canadian citizenship in 2003, and have no plans to renounce or relinquish my US citizenship. I got my first US passport in 1986 and renewed it in 1996. I had to go to the US Consulate in Toronto both times because that’s the way it was done then. Not a big deal since I live about an hour’s drive away. Since then it has become possible to renew passports by mail, unless your passport has expired and it has been more than 15 years since you last renewed. That was the case for me, so I had to appear in person to renew.
Things have changed. The US Consulate in Toronto is still in the same building, but the big wide welcoming doors at the front on University Avenue are closed, and entry to the building is now at the back, through a smaller door where security is simpler. You don’t get into the building unless you have an appointment, and most people who go are there to get a travel visa for the US. Since I was there for a passport, I was escorted past the lines, through a security checkpoint similar to airport security, and up the stairs to the upper floors by a relay of security guards who kept each other informed about who was coming and going. It was swift and efficient.
At the first window, an agent checked and collected my documents (appointment letter, expired passport, application for renewal, passport photo, and self-addressed Express Post envelope). Then I was sent to the next window where I paid the fee, and from there I went into the waiting room. It was open and uncrowded, with a TV screen on the wall tuned to the CBC news. The resident security guard politely asked if any of us had any questions he could answer while we waited. Within 15 minutes I was called to another window.
Here the agent asked me some questions confirming the information on my application. He noted the state in which I was born and asked if I had grown up there. I said yes, and he smiled and said he was from the state next door, so we were practically neighbours. I smiled back and we chatted a bit about life in that part of the country. He noted my travel plans for the summer and assured me I would have my new passport within two weeks, in plenty of time for my next trip outside of Canada. He asked in a very friendly way about why I had waited more than five years after my passport expired to renew it, and I confessed that I had been very busy with work and family concerns, and had simply not gotten around to it. He did not ask if I had dual citizenship. He did not ask any questions about taxes. I was back on the street in less than 45 minutes.
Since everything was in order, I should have my new passport within a fortnight. The only doubt I have is to wonder whether my information will be checked against my tax status, although I did file taxes (but not FBARs) for 2010. No one at the consulate said anything about that. If I receive anything from the IRS requesting more tax information before my passport is issued, I will report it here.
All the people I encountered in the embassy, from the security guards on the sidewalk outside to the officials and clerical staff, were uniformly pleasant, friendly, helpful and competent.
@bubbllebustin, they wouldn’t know, but when it comes to US tax matters your are considered guilty unless and until you prove yourself innocent. Just the thousands of dollars you save in not paying fully qualified IRS-enrolled professional tax advisers to establish and maintain the records you are required to have and to properly and faultlessly prepare all the necessary forms you must submit to the IRS and the Treasury Depearment certainly would be proof enough that you renounced for tax reasons.
It is for US tax reasons that you are handicappped by not being able to invest in foreign deferred income retirement plans or open or maintain a bank account in the foreign country where you reside unless you renounce your US citizenship.
I am not forecasting that the Reed Amendment is going to be enforced, but I would not be willing to bet even one dollar that it will not.
@outragedcanadian
‘and there are all shades of grey that need to be considered’. That truly sums it up. All of us here would have found this whole journey so much easier if it were all black and white, but, it is not.
@tiger, i understand completely why those who choose to renounce do. But do I amputate my arm because someone is wrenching it? But then I know that under the current conditions, US citizenship outside the US’s borders is proving to be maintainable only to those who earn enough to be able to afford it, or are willing to ignore the law. I just have the feeling that something big is about to happen. I hope it’s not a stroke because my blood pressure has been through the roof because of my constant state of anxiety. By the sounds of it, that may not be relieved by renouncing.
Here’s what the Reed Amendment actually says:
“Former citizens who renounced citizenship to avoid taxation.-Any alien who is a former citizen of the United States who officially renounces United States citizenship and who is determined by the Attorney General to have renounced United States citizenship for the purpose of avoiding taxation by the United States is excludable.”
http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-2006.html (right at the end)
Anything can happen, but I don’t read this as a means to exclude people who owed no taxes, ever, and renounced to avoid the administrative burdens connected to taxation (which are also an administrative burden to the United States, though a self-inflicted one.)
US citizenship for expats is like cancer. It is best to remove it if possible.
The Reed Amendment is for avoiding taxes. The Reed Amendment is not for us who want to avoid unnecessary paperwork when zero taxes are owed, or are afraid of FBAR fines. I don’t think it would or could ever be applied to the so called minnows. It would be a hard case to make to say renouncing was made to avoid taxes when you don’t owe taxes in the first place. If the Reed Amendment is ever used, it will be used against a Whale as political theater.
@all, not sure what anyone else thinks of this, but the thought of Michael Moore, the TV producer, and campaigner against US govt craziness, popped into my head this morning as someone to get on our side, and/or interested in our various stories. The only contact I could find was to suggest an article, so I suggested 3 articles on our issues, such as the renunciations, the bullying, the invasion of prvacy, etc. Included links to Atossa’s article, as well as links to this site.
I was thinking if we could engage his interest, it might help?
In case anyone else is interested, here’s the link:http://www.michaelmoore.com/submit
Sorry, my browser has messed up and I can’t read what I wrote, not sure if this is making sense or not. I apologize for any typos, etc
Good luck with Michael Moore. I am just afraid he will already have a bias against expats along similar to the comments about Atossa’s article found on HuffPost and Daily Beast.
The so-called Progressives (whatever it is they actually stand for) don’t seem very sympathetic towards expats.
@FromTheWilderness, I don’t actually have much hope for any of the media, really. None have responded to my emails to date. However, I keep on trying…
@Outragedc,
When the number of renunciations goes up, which is happening as of now, the media will run after the story themselves.
But thanks for trying and don’t give up!
Sorry, I’ve just managed to delete my original comment on Michael Moore. I said that he goes after the private sector and so would likely not be willing to take on the government. Furthermore, the methods he uses to make his case are full of distortions, smears and misleading presentation of facts. Even if I agreed with his cause, i would not want to be associated with him. His disreputable methods taint the issues he pursues.
@foxladyhawk, I totally agree with your observations with respect to Michael Moore. I would not not want him to touch our cause with a 10-ft. pole becase he could likely do it far more harm than good. If he were to be for it, a large number would automaically be against it just because of Michael Moore.
@Foxyladyhawk
I really liked Fahrenheit 911 because I agreed with his views on the Iraq war (he was ahead of his time), but I lost interest in him afterwards for the same reasons you wrote above.
To be frank, I would be really surprised if Moore would empathize with expats. I am more afraid of him portraying Americans abroad the way Carl Levin does–lounging on yachts along the French Riviera while sipping champagne.
I think it would be more effective to try and recruit the Institute for Justice. They are a group of lawyers who do nothing but chase down damaging and counterproductive laws that hurt innocent people. They have just launched a lawsuit against the IRS ( https://www.ij.org/ij-sues-the-irs) for imposing new regulations that will cut out thousands of independent tax workers who help taxpayers file every year. This would be right up their alley.
Very interesting. This is the first time I heard of them. I think you may be on to something.
https://www.ij.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Justice
@Diaspora Boy, FATCA: Foreign American Turns Carcinogenic Agent.
Okay, my heart was in the right place, even if it turns out it wasn’t the best idea. Sorry, guys. I was just thinking of media attention, but perhaps you’re right and it would be bad media attention (if we got any)…. sorry….
Ha, ha, that was good. Another one: Americans Abroad Cancer Society (AACS).
Don’t apologise, you’re on the right wavelength! All ideas are welcome! PS – I just put up a quick post on the Institute for Justice. I hope people will check it out. Maybe we can use their help.
BTW nobledreamer, I just came across this post: “The IRS is now matching up your US passport with your US tax records and knows if you have not been filing all required US tax returns while you are living Abroad. The IRS will shortly start matching up information received from Foreign Banks with US tax returns and required FBAR forms. If you have not been reporting, now is the time to start. ”
I found it on this site: http://usexpatriate.blogspot.ca/2012/02/fast-us-tax-facts-for-expatriates-and.html
This guy is a CPA and attorney in California. I wonder if he’s just fishing for clients.
@foxyladyhawk, when I renewed my US passport after several years of expiry there was a new requirement to provide a SSN. My SSN was still in process when I renewed my passport (as I’d never had one ) so I put a series of zeros in the appropriate place. I am prepared to have to provide a SSN and an explanation when crossing the border now, for the fine for deliberately withholding a SSN on your passport application is $500.
@Nobledreamer and Petros, this is probably a dumb question but I’ll ask anyway. If one were to be in OVDI and receive a CLN and end up in a dispute with the IRS, could they deny you protections afforded to citizens only?
@bubblebustin, by “they” are you referring to the Canadian Government or the IRS?
Pingback: Institute for Justice is sueing the IRS | The Isaac Brock Society
@roger, the IRS