Peter Dunn, blogger, Canadian citizen, Petros, former US citizen
or
Peter Dunn, Pete the Planner
You decide.
I’ve been called a number of things: but this is the first time I’ve been called “the other Peter Dunn”. I think that is just about the most hurtful thing of all.
Today, a certain Peter Dunn, a famous media figure who is both a comedian and financial adviser (isn’t that tautology?), wrote at his blog, A minor PR disaster for Pete the Planner (emphasis mine; hat tip Pacifica):
Things were going so great…until I was mistaken for another Peter Dunn.
While I try to help people take responsibility for their financial lives, the other Peter Dunn encourages people to leave the United States in order to avoid paying taxes. This mistake was originally brought to my attention by a Twitter follower, but then I noticed the increased web traffic on my website today. People have been Googling “Peter Dunn don’t pay taxes” all day. Ugh.
So for the record. I pay taxes. You should pay taxes, and the other Peter Dunn needs to stay out of the news. The world doesn’t need two Peter Dunns.
****Update: To be fair, I don’t know the ins and outs of the “other Peter Dunn’s” perspective. I’m not trying to insult him or his cause. I just wanted people to make sure they understood that we weren’t one in the same.
As far as I’m concerned, I am Peter Dunn, and he is the other Peter Dunn. Here my reasons:
- I am older; so I have the prior claim to being Peter Dunn Prime.
- Being older, wiser and more experienced, I would not suddenly panic if people confused me with another Peter Dunn, seeing as it is a pretty common name.
- Age before beauty. I am not sufficiently photogenic to be on TV. (That’s why my gravatar is Tertia kitty, covering my face!)
- I am Canadian.
- William Shatner, Michael J. Fox, and Steve Nash are also Canadians.
- Canada is bigger than the United States.
- I grew up in Alaska, which is much larger and colder than any state that Pete the Planner ever lived in.
- I never use three dots … when I write.
- Last but not least: my website has a better Alexa ranking.
Here is the poll. (Hint: the correct vote is for Pete the Planner).
@Pete the Planner: One more point you want to consider. Only two countries in the world have citizenship based taxation. United States and Eritrea. (Well, maybe Eritrea too, but they don’t let anyone leave
USA joined with other countries at the UN in condeming Eritrea for their efforts.
Other countries have residence based taxation– i.e. one pays tax where they live, often based on worldwide income. Why doesn’t USA do that?
Oops! That should have been (well maybe NORTH KOREA, too, but they don’t people leave.) Sorry. I didn’t mean to confuse further.
It really is just USA and Eritrea that tax based on citizenship.
Thanks @Blaze. This is going to be great.
@ Lisa,
If I may, I would like to make one small correction to your final quote. It should read:
“I will always be American. Nobody can take that away from me. I am just no longer a US citizen.”
@PTP: I know I said just one more point above, but you also need to know about the FATCA monster which is looming in our futures.
FATCA (Foreign Account Tax Compiance Act) requires banks around the world to report on all of the financial holdings of any “U.S. person” customer with more than $50,000 in a financial institution. If the customer does not give information or consent, IRS expects the “foreign financial institution” to close the account of the “recalcitrant” account holder. If the FFI does not comply, IRS is threatening severe financial penalties on US based holdings.
Some banks in Europe and South America are already closing accounts or refusing to open new accounts for anyone born in U.S.
Canadian banks would have to violate Canada’s Bank Act, Human Rights Code, Charter of Rights and privacy laws to comply. But, if they don’t comply, IRS will hit them with their financial bully club. In addition, that financial institution’s debit cards credit cards will not be accepted in the U.S.
Can you imagine if China, Russia, Iran or Eritrea were demanding this of US banks and other banks around the world? “US person” has no more legal meaning in Canada than “Chinese person,” Russian person,” “Iranian person,” or “Eritrean person.” We all are simply Canadian citizens or residents trying to make a life for ourselves without interference of a foreign government.
I hope Roger Conklin will share with you how US citizenship based taxation is contributing to the huge US trade deficit, while countries which encourage their citizens to live abroad have trade surpluses.
Plus, many former US citizens have vowed to never again return to US because of this issue. That doesn’t help your economy, but that’s not our problem.
Pingback: Message to financial planners: The rules are NOT the same for U.S. citizens living abroad | The Isaac Brock Society
Pingback: When your customers fear complexity – FBAR, 5471, 8938, 8891, 3520, PFIC and more … | The Isaac Brock Society
@Lisa. Thanks for that, but can you give me an instance where someone is a US citizens through a grandparent?
@PTP: Just in case you don’t have enough to do before the Real Peter Dunn airs on your show, here is some reading material.
The first two are articles from Globe and Mail which alerted many of us to this issue last summer. The third is a letter from Canada’s Minister of Finance (like US Secretary of Treasury) about the impact of this on honest law-abiding Canadians.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/us-tax-amnesty-not-cheap-or-popular/article2159537/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/tax-centre/us-tax-crackdown-hits-canadian-residents/article2067393/
http://business.financialpost.com/2011/09/16/read-jim-flahertys-letter-on-americans-in-canada/iti
And, here is a position paper from Association of Americans Resident Overseas which shows differential treatment between American citizens in USA and those outside USA. http://aaro.org/position-papers-2011?start=1
Pingback: Message to financial planners: The rules are NOT the same for U.S. citizens living abroad « Renounce U.S. Citizenship – Be Free
@Pete the Planner
Liza, Wondering, Blaze and others have given you good information above to prepare for your interview with ‘our Peter Dunn’.
I would like to stress a few things based on my own case. Some of us have no ‘foreign earned income’ to exclude. I am well past retirement age and my income is either Canadian ‘Old Age Security’ – this is excluded, or investment income. My investment income is ‘modest’ and thus I am in a very low Canadian income tax bracket. Therefore, I do not have Foreign Tax Credits that could be used on a U.S. tax return. So it is very likely that I would, in fact, owe taxes to the U.S. Plus, I would have exhorbitant costs to comply.
I certainly can not understand why after 50 years, living in Canada, a citizen of Canada , I might be expected to pay Uncle Sam a dime of my late husband’s hard earned money. Yet not only does the IRS expect that but they also believe that my three sons (all Canadian born) , should also start to comply with American tax laws, file 1040s and also let the IRS know what their assets are (including their retirement accounts).
If you are able to explain either the logic of this or even the fairness of this, I am willing to listen.
I really look forward to your radio broadcast and thank you again for joining this site, listening to our ‘ramblings’ and for the upcoming interview with Petros.
And please post the time, place where we can listen to your show.
@Tiger you can listen to the show on Friday 4/20 at 7:00pm EST. You can listen online at http://wibc.com
@bubblebustin
Take a look at the following link:
http://www.aca.ch/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=92&Itemid=44
This is a naturalization process that can give US citizenship to a child before reaching 18.
@Petetheplanner
Bless your heart for having “our Peter” on your radio show. Just an aside, life in Canada becomes more complicated for the dual citizen (who was born in Canada to an American parent) who has a disability and starts to accumulate TFSA and RDSP (registered disability savings plans.) In Alberta, the province gives these individuals $1588 per month for assured income for the severely handicapped. These individuals are NOT allowed to renounce U.S. citizenship due to their mental disability, and not fully understanding “what they are giving up.” Although, in my family’s case, the legal guardian and alternate legal guardian had just renounced! Now, the person with the disability is not able to file his/her own IRS tax filing. Someone must do this as long as the disabled person lives, or hire a tax person (using disabily funding!) The funds also begin to accumulate, with interest, and even the government contributes on a yearly basis for up to 20 years, $4500 on the RDSP with the person only contributing $1500. At some point, the U.S. wants its fair share, and starts to take taxes from this person and these are funds needed for the financial security of the person with the disability. It is really a low blow for these families. And the sad part is, the legal guardian and in my case also the legal trustee, is not allowed to renounce for this person, even though in my country I make all of her decisions.
@PTP: To add to Cecelia’s point, the legal guardian of a disabled male between the ages of 18 and 25 is also required to register that male (born and raised outside the US) for the US Selective Service or face a fine of up to $250,000 or 5 years in jail.
I think perhaps you are beginning to get a sense at where the fury is coming from.
Pingback: Who is the real Peter Dunn? | The Isaac Brock Society
@Lisa – That was one of the best comments yet on this board.
@all – The grandparent clause provides for fast-track naturalization (‘expeditious naturalization’) of grandchildren of USCs who meet a modest residency requirement. It doesn’t confer citizenship nonconsensually, as with the children of US parents.
@All
Reading about grandparent clauses (I believe Ireland also has a ‘grandparent’ clause in their citizenship regulations), I wish that Canada had a similar clause. My ancestors on my father’s side immigrated from France to Canada in 1695. My father’s parents immigrated from Canada to the U.S. almost 200 years later. I was born in the U.S. but moved to Canada as an 18 year old. I had to apply for Canadian citizenship as a 29 year old in 1972. Perhaps if Canada had had the ‘grandparent’s clause’, I would have been born ‘dual’ – U.S. and Canadian. Not sure but perhaps less grief for me today.
thanks all for the info on the grandparent clause.
Can’t wait to hear “Dunn and Dunn” 🙂
@tiger
Canada does have a grandfather clause, I nearly qualified when I applied for Canadian citizenship in 1979. The person at the office of Canadian citizenship spent nearly an hour researching the laws at the time. My mother was born in Québec and 3 of 4 grandparens born in Québec. However a citizenship distinct from being a British subject exists only since 1947, to qualify either of my parents would have needed some residency in Canada after that date. For the record my French ancesters came to Quebéc in the 1650`s, my great grandmother was Algonquin
Pingback: Taxpayer Advocate – @YourvoiceATIRS retweeted the following! | The Isaac Brock Society
@rivka88
If I understand you correctly, to qualify under a ‘grandparents clause’, one of my parents would have had to live in Canada after 1947. So I would not have qualified.
Your ancestors arrived even earlier here from France than mine (1695). Over the years that I have lived in Canada, I have on ocassion been teased by family/friends about not being a ‘true Canadian’, having immigrated from the United States, I remind them that there really are not alot of Canadians who can trace their heritage back to the 1600s. Nice to hear about another one who can.
@tiger
If in Montreal you can research your Québec roots at Société Généalogique Canadienne-Française.
(sgcf.com) at 3440, rue Davidson
@rivka88
Thanks for that info. I have a niece (on my Cdn. husband’s side of the family) who has recently moved to Montreal. Now that I don’t plan on spending money on travel to the States to visit my family, I thought recently of going to Montreal to visit this niece. If I do, I might just trace those Quebec roots. I do know that both of my Dad’s parents came from St. Raymond and I even think that a couple of my dad’s older siblings might have been born there. Of course, when they immigrated to the U.S. in the late 1800’s, it was probably just a matter of stepping over the border – no Homeland Security or border guards, I am sure.