I spoke with Atossa Abrahamian of Reuters regarding my case. Her article is now available online, and I am pleased with her general tone; she treats us favorably and does not accuse us of being tax cheats, like so many other journalists have done.
I spoke with Atossa Abrahamian of Reuters regarding my case. Her article is now available online, and I am pleased with her general tone; she treats us favorably and does not accuse us of being tax cheats, like so many other journalists have done.
@bubblebustin, remember there’s no such thing as bad publicity. Whatever it takes to get our message out and get a reaction out of Congress is what we need. If we piss them off, it will work in our favor since they might make it easier to renounce. They’ll think they’re hurting us but they’ll actually be helping us.
@omghesstillanamerican- That is one possible outcome but I wouldn’t be so quick to discount the vindictive and spiteful nature of the American politician. It is entirely possible that things could be made worse.
@omg, you mean we’re really in a win-win situation with the media? Never thought of it that way. Maybe that will help keep my blood pressure from spiking when I read anti-expat comments. Thanks.
@recalcitrantexpat, yes politicians can be very vindictive. But in the end they know they really have no real power over us. Messing with us is a waste of time.
But think for a second like an American politician. All these expats are preventing them from getting bank information on the real tax evaders who are resident in the US but hide money in foreign accounts. Since politicians are self serving, they will say let’s get rid of these expats quickly so we can collect tax dollars from the US residents that are rightfully owed to the IRS.
@bubblebustin, I find sometimes when dealing with Americans that you first have to create an uproar before a resolution can be found.
uh, oh, @recalcitrant just blew all those warm and fuzzies for me…One thing that keeps coming to mind for me is how it’s ingrained in the American psyche that the US is a beacon of freedom in the world. This freedom allows for unfettered access to the rest of the planet, if only to allow Americans to spread that word. When faced with constraints in doing that, manifested in an increase in expatriations, it strikes at the core of this belief. Our treatment is repugnant to many who believe that living, or at least immersing, in another land should be an available and viable option.
@bubblebustin- I have been wondering what will be the reaction of someo of our critics when and if the day comes that they want or need to live overseas only to find out that the U.S. has effectively land locked them? They may suddenly realize that we were right.
American politicians like low hanging fruit. We only become that when we voluntarily offer ourselves up to them and pay confiscatory fines even though we owe no taxes and the Canadian government has offered us their protection.
The real low hanging fruit is residents of the US … millionaires with offshore accounts who don’t properly report all their income. These are the people they would have access to if they found a way to remove expats from the equation. There could be billions of dollars that can be collected from US resident tax evaders with foreign accounts. American politicians are not stupid when it comes to money … I’m just surprised they haven’t figured out already that the easiest solution is to let expats renounce without jumping through hoops.
@recalcitrantexpat
Because we ARE right! Some bubbles are more like diving bells, completely impenetrable and unmovable on land.
@Recalcitrant
http://isaacbrocksociety.com/2012/04/19/countries-compete-for-immigrants-who-are-entrepreneurs-join-the-discussion/
Re: “the U.S. has effectively land locked them”
Yes, the above post suggests that U.S. citizens will undesirable immigrants in other countries. Why would any country allow immigrants if the effect of allowing them to live in the coutry is to bring innocent citizens into contact with the IRS?
More and more of the world’s biggest companies will choose non-Americans as their Presidents to avoid the US citizenship taxation problem. This means the power base is moving away from the US. Even GE said their next President is likely to be a non-American.
Imagine you are a US citizen who’s gone to the best schools and you are not hired because it’s easier to hire any other nationality except Americans. Now that gives a whole new meaning to American Exceptionalism.
@omg, and with the current state of education in the US, how many of these types will the US continue to churn out? A lowering tide lowers all boats.
Perhaps (let´s hope) Alexis de Tocqueville was right. America always do the right thing, after trying everything else.
@thatisme- I thought it was Churchill who said that?
How many more ways are there to do it wrong? This is exhausting.
@thatisme: I also thought it was Winston Churchill who said that.
I agree completely with OMG. How much more can they screw things up? Even teenagers don’t usually mess up this often and this badly.
@all….
BTW, the story on Huffington Post is now getting a lot of play. They have moved it to the front page, although you have to scroll down, and there are over 2900 comments. I do find the level of exchange discouraging! Oh well, there certainly is a mix…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/18/americans-renounce-citizenship-taxes_n_1435390.html
@omghesstillanamerican, maybe we should rebrand it American exclusionism.
When an American becomes the CEO of a large multi-national headquartered outside of the US, he has to submit FBAR reports which include detalis all of the foreign companies bank accounts in banks outside of the US. That task alone takes quite a work force and thousands of hours of time in the most unproductive waste of money work you could possibly imagine. All foreign currency accounts must be converted to equivalent US dollar values for FBAReports. Tell me, what does the IRS do with a mountain of paperwork like this, or how does it veryify that the numbers are correct? Can you think of anything more absurd since the foreign corporation is not subject to US income tax on its non-US earnings.
Since he is personally responsible for submitting these FBAR reports, I hope he is declaring as personal “in-kind “income the corporate cost of preparing these massive and detailed reports. By US tax law that his personal taxable income.
@Just me,
It’s still a good first start. I actually expect more empathy from the Tea Party people than from the Occupy crowd.
In any case, unless an American has lived abroad for a significant amount of time, it will be difficult for him/her to understand the problems expats face.
One thing is for sure, an increase in renunciations grabs the headlines. It directly challenges the myth of the American dream.
Sorry… mistake, It seems that it was Churchill.
I believe that perhaps the time arrived for us Americans Abroad to start to express how we would like to be treated by the USA government. My first wish : adopt like all other countries residency based taxation. Of course continue to tax citizens, dual citizens and greencarders residing in the USA their earnings in foreign investments but giving credit for the taxes they pay in foreign countries (this is what Brazil does) . If the USA decides to continue to tax us give us unlimited earned income exclusion. Continue to give tax credits to the taxes we pay in our country of residence. May continue to require FBARs but give amnesty to anyone living abroad who sends his first FBARs. Notify every American Abroad in form 1040 about the need to send FBARs and start penalizing the ones who don ‘t comply in the next tax year. Give SS tax credit for SS paid in the country of residency. Do not tax income that is not taxed in the country of residency. Hmmm, how am I doing? I don ‘t like to complain without making suggestions. Finally, no double forms and …simplify all the forms.
@Markpinetree
‘adopt like all other countries residency based taxation.’
I think we can stop there.
@tiger, I agree. Adopt residece based and drop citizenship based taxation. That is the only viable solution. Achieving that solution is going to requre foreign governments taking a firm stand in opposition to the US policy of collecting taxes from US citizens who reside within their borders as being a violation of their national sovereignty. That hasn’t happened yet and I have not detected any stirrings in that direction..
ACA http://www.aca.ch has these proposals for change very well outlined and carefully done. I am not sure US Congressmen are willing to listen. And so far all I can see is all the contries catering to the USA demands. Just follow the money. If we had representation in the US Congress they could be fighting for us. Let me suggest that for some reason public opinion is against us in the USA and in all countries. How can we try to change this? I was in touch with a Congressman from the State I last lived in the USA. He said that he was in the Americans Abroad Caucus because he lived abroad… but he never was clearly in our side… I wrote to the White House about us saying as a Democrat that President Obama should give us some support in order to get our absentee votes. They answered very nicelly explaining President Obama´s view on taxing the rich (I agree) but no word about Americans Abroad. In the mean time the GOP is taking a clear stand in our favor and against FATCA trying to get our votes. But it is difficult for me to support what theyrepresent… The Democrats Abroad Brazil don´t want to discuss this issue, This puzzles me. Aren´t they affected by the demands of the IRS?… They keep saying that we should focus on winning the elections…Complicated, no?
@Markpinetree, the Democrats in Brazil’a ignoring of this issue to concentrate on Obama’s re-election is akin to the Jews in Nazi Germany supporting the shipping of fellow Jews to the concentration camps. And I do not exaggerate.