Cross posted from RenounceUScitizenship.
Citizenship renunciations are soaring under the Obama administration. In a move that is sure to accelerate this trend, as part of Tax Amendments to Senate-Passed Highway Trust Fund Bill (S. 1813), the ability to get a U.S. passport is now tied to U.S. tax compliance. The provisions are detailed. But, the bottom line is that the issuance and renewal of U.S. passports is now tied to U.S. tax compliance. I suspect that (at least initially) this will affect few people. You should read the complete article (courtesy of ACA). Note the following comments from lawyer Charles Bruce.
One suspects that the State Department personnel responsible for the issuance and renewal of passports, especially those located in American embassies around the world, will not welcome these provisions. They will not make their work, which is already difficult, any easier.
In order to avoid being caught in a bind, where the individual, in effect, loses his US passport, some people undoubtedly will want to acquire a back-up passport from another country. Also, it is the case that there are hundreds of thousands of individuals that are already dual nationals, frequently by birth. If their US passport is revoked or they are not allowed to renew it, at least they will not be, in a sense, stateless, unable to travel from one foreign country to another and, as a practical matter, forced to return to the US. Some individuals who think these rules make their situation untenable, or may in the future make it untenable, may choose to renounce their US citizenship. Depending upon circumstances, they may have to “pay up” in order cleanly to renounce.
There may be constitutional issues lurking around these provisions. A US citizen generally has the right to have a passport and to travel freely. It’s not clear that the inability to pay his tax bills can be used to deny him this right.
Charles M. Bruce is a partner at Moore & Bruce LLP (Washington, D.C.) and counsel at Bonnard Lawson (Lausanne, Switzerland).
Mr. Bruce notes that “A US citizen generally has the right to have a passport and to travel freely.” I suspect that the Obama administration would argue that there is NO constitutional right to either leave or enter the United States.
Remaining a U.S. citizen is becoming increasingly undesirable. The issue is not the tax requirements. The issue is the disregard of fundamental human rights and (as Mr. Bruce alludes to) the constitutional issues surrounding much of its legislation and conduct. On the issue of respect for the constitution, see U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder explain former law professor Barack Obama’s view of what due process requires (or sorry, doesn’t require).
Renounce U.S. citizenship and rejoice!
Easier said than done though if, like me, I need to know for certain that I could always visit the US because of family. I wouldn’t even put it past them to start enforcing the Reed Act to deter people renouncing. They realize it will make life very difficult and thus effectively force compliance on us expats who still have US ties…but my parents have been very understanding about my considering it though doubt I will because of the veiled threats. Call me pragmatic…It’s awful though.
But relieved I already hold a UK passport too…but as I’m only allowed to enter the US on my American passport, need to have one for visiting family. If I renounced, could take ages to receive the CLN and with my parents in their 70s, don’t want to risk not being able to see them.
Mona, U.K. pp holders don’t NEED a visa to enter U.S. So, if you give up your US one, i don’t see why you couldn’t start entering U.S. right away, on your U.K. pp — w/o having to wait for DOS to issue your CLN.
I have a visa waiver passport and eligible for another as well if needed – only use the US passport to go to the US (the US passport is a pain in Europe anyways, you have to go to the non-EU queue and can’t use the automated passport checking machines either) and who wants to get involved with discussions at the border about when did you entered the Schengen Area? My EU passport is fine thank you very much.
Let’s see the US from an ex-pat’s point of view – hmmmm – FATCA, revoking passports, $14 ESTA fees for your family members, surly US immigration staff with interrogating mindset just across that famous yellow line, agressive IRS, not cheap, homeless people begging with a Dunkin Donuts cup outside of CVS, another homeless guy with a hugh bin liner collecting empty cans and bottles for the deposit refund money, potholed roads, high cost of health care, UK-US extradition treaty, it just goes on and on………Is the US really that good anymore?
But they would see that I was born in USA and would have thought I’d thus need the CLN though perhaps they’d see the cancelled passport on their computers..but seems a bit risky, who the f–k knows 😛
@monalisa1776: I have entered the USA many times with my Canadian passport (most recently October 2011), and have never been questioned once, even though it shows my American birth place. I don’t think there is a law against entering on your other passport, at least I don’t think there is. Maybe some else knows about this? I am planning another trip to the US this summer and am going to use my CAnadian passport and I won’t have a CLN yet. If I am questioned I am going to say I’m Canadian and Canada prefers I travel with my Canadian passport, because if I get into trouble, I want the assistance of Canada to get back to my home, which has been in Canada for over 40 years. From what I understand if I enter the US with a US passport (which I don’t have), the Canadian government will not help me.
If anyone knows any more about this, please post. I don’t want to end up spending my summer in a US prison if I’m wrong.
My how the world has changed. in 1981, I crossed from Canada to US with zero official identification. I had lost all my ID (long story involving hit men but I won’t go into that).
Being Indian, I thought I might not be allowed to cross with no proof that I was legal or even who I was.
My boyfriend (now my husband) who is US born said don’t worry, nobody cares if you don’t have official ID. I asked a school teacher to write me a letter on school letterhead that he knew who I was and that I was a Canadian citizen. I crossed the border and back with just that letter. Those were the days!
I think even these days the rules for people going to the US from Canada are probably alot looser than from any other country and that’s why Americans in Canada don’t get hassled for traveling on Canadian passports.
@somerfugl: “All U.S. citizens, even dual citizens/nationals, must enter and depart the United States using his/her U.S. passport.” (from http://travel.state.gov/visa/questions/questions_1253.html).
@monalisa: If you do renounce but have to go the the US before you get your CLN, then the worst I think that could happen is that they question you for a few minutes. If you tell them that you renounced then they have no reason not to believe you. And I’m sure they could check it somewhere. As long as you are telling the truth then what could happen? If it was so important to carry the damn CLN around then I’d think that they would tell you this when you renounce. Nobody said anything about that to me when I renounced.
@rodgrod,
The next person who renounces their US citizenshp should pointeded ask this question: Now that I have renounced my US citizenship but it will be several months before I receive my CLN,
What proof or document can you provide me during this interim that will allow me to present to US immigratoin along with my Canadian passport that will allow me to visit the US? How can I prove that I am no longer a US citizen?
@Roger Conklin and @rodgrod–
I renounced in January, and the consular officer told me at the time that if I had to travel to the US before I received my CLN to just tell the border agent exactly that.
That said, I travel to the US a number of times per year and I have never had any issue using my Canadian passport (I had a US passport but it expired more than 10 years ago). My Canadian passport lists my place of birth as being in the US, and once or twice I’ve had a border agent ask me if I realized that I was in fact a US citizen. However, never has anyone attempted to enforce (or even mention) the requirement that citizens enter the US on a US passport.
Perhaps with this new legislation they’ll start enforcing the rule, but I’d be pretty surprised to see that.
@Monalisa and Canadian passport holders
I don’t see what the fuss is all about? Every UK passport that I have ever seen only lists a city of birth, even for those born overseas? Unless you were born somewhere like New York of Seattle, how would they know in which country you were born?
Canadians can request their passports to be issued only listing city of birth as well but must ask for this specifically when applying for a passport. I wish that my country would list just the city of birth or at least offer the option to do so, since they do the worst version possible: City, State and then a big USA afterwards. I hate showing my passport anymore.
As to getting a second passport, that will unfortunately be a hard slog for any US citizen not already resident overseas. Unless they have heritage in, say, an EU country or are prepared to outright buy a passport from Dominica or St. Kitts, it will take years to get another passport legally. Even the above options take years and I know several people (Polish, German and Spanish ancestry) who all claimed citizenship through a parent or grandparent and the process took years in every case.
The US also is simply a terrible passport for being able to get many opportunities to move abroad due to their “Berlin Wall” style of handling visas and reciprocity: The US is barred from almost every working holiday visa in the world, yet citizens of the UK, Canada, Australia, Germany, Hong Kong and so on regularly give young people the chance to move abroad and work for year or more. I know two people who moved legally to Australia and Canada and they found their permanent jobs through doing a working holiday visa. No such avenue for US citizens alas.
@all, My current US passport, as with all of those since the first one I have been issued over the past 60 years, show (state) USA as my “place of birth.” It does not include a city name. Same is true of my wife’s passport. I don’t know what is shown as place of birth in US passports if born outside of he US.
@ Roger
US passports for those born abroad that I have seen seem to show the city name or the country name. I have seen both and I don’t know what the logic is behind how it is determined, but I find it weird that they would list the city only for someone born overseas and then list only a state and no city for someone born in the US. Most countries seem to do it the opposite way around.
@ Roger and others
As noted in other posts on other threads, by me and others, in Canada we have the right to request that our passports not show our place of birth, or only show the city/town (and watch the fun as the border guard tries to figure out what country it is). BUT — and Passport Canada will warn you about this, with no place of birth, there’s a blank on the passport under “place of birth” which is sort of a red flag. And a dozen or so countries won’t let you in without place of birth showing, or without pulling you into secondary screening and grilling you about where you were born. The US is one of these, from what I was told by Passport Canada. So asking to have the place of birth removed (which is your right under Article 15 of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms which prohibits discrimination based on national origin, but that’s only effective in Canada), may just make matters worse when you try to cross the border.
Re Roger’s excellent suggestion concerning asking the consular officer what you’re supposed to do until you get the CLN — I know someone who has an appointment in about three weeks who will ask that question and will report the answer to me, which I’ll post here if no one else has by then.
I pressed a consul on the matter of “limbo” between renunciation and receipt of CLN. His response was that US border guards should accept verbal explanation of the circumstances. So loosey-goosey, so having it all one way, so tossing the individual into the uncertainties of potentially hostile bureaucracy. So arrogant.
I was told to present my signed (w/o seal) and my receipt for renunciation when crossing the border.
@all, Last night I checked the US passports of 2 naturalized US citizens born in Peru and their place of birth is stated as Lima, Peru. So it would appear that for persons born within the US the practice is to show the state and USA and for those born outside to show the city and country.
@usx canada and @rivka88,
This issue definitely needs to be consistent among the many Consulates and Embassies (and we need to go with something in hand to prove why we no longer have a US passport when crossing the border, especially with such a long wait for the CLN and, absolutely, the “loosey-goosey / whatever the border guard wants to do.”
The best illustration is the blind eye turned to ‘not using a US passport to cross the border’ for decades, which gets us to where we are at today. Not that I don’t absolutely think that a Canadian passport from a Canadian citizen should be accepted by the US – just because the bad law doesn’t make sense (every US person HAS TO HAVE A US PASSPORT (some never crossing the border) AND CROSS ONLY WITH THAT US PASSPORT = criminal offense).
I thought the US maintains that a law is a law and, if that’s the case, needs to be observed consistently. But, maybe that is only when it affects their economy — doesn’t put money into US pockets from Canadians visiting the US for whatever reason, one being the many snowbirds (many who would be US persons) enriching the US economy for months on end.
And, of course, we all have seen how the US law has changed / bent regarding our being warned that we were losing our US citizenship by taking Canadian citizenship way back when, again affecting the US economy. And, now FATCA, taking away the rights of privacy. What other reason than enriching the US economy is there for the absurdity of it all? The US makes the rules and interprets those rules inconsistently, always just for their benefit.
Some of us don’t want to play their game any longer. We are renouncing / if our relinquishment doesn’t qualify in US eyes.
@schubert, I find it really wierd that any country would allow only a citiy name, without a country, as the place of birth on its passports.
This could be totally misleading. For example if a person’s passport simply but correctly stated place of birth as Usa, since that is the name of a city on the Japanese island of Kyushu. Right after WW II when Japan’s economy was in a shambles that citiy was touted as a great place to build a factory since goods made there and stamped “Made in USA” would likely find a much better market in the US than products dimplhy marked “Made in Japan.”
@All
Good points all around. I would say that standard practice should be to list a city name only when the person was born in the issuing country, which I imagine applies at around 80% or more of all passport holders in the world.
For those born abroad I think that an option should be included to omit the name of the country if the person so chooses. I find it unfair that people can change their name, nationality or even gender but are forever stuck with their place of birth in their passports. This is discriminatory. Consider not only US citizens currently but also those born in India, Pakistan, Israel and many other countries around the world. Having the wrong place of birth can get you denied a visa or maybe even killed.
A person’s place of birth is absolutely arbitrary and, in many cases, absolutely meaningless. I find what Japan and Switzerland do to be much more logical: Japan lists only your place of residence, while Switzerland lists your ancestral familial commune. For example, I have a friend who was born in France but his “Place of Origin” states Geneva, which is where his family was from and where he spent most of his life growing up. While I would prefer the Japanese approach to be the world standard, even the Swiss approach is simply more logical and fair.
BTW I imagine that the obsession with “Place of Birth” as an identifying marker is a holdover from ICAO standards from a different era and an era in which the US was the most dominant country in the world by far. Most countries still had jus solis laws back in the 1950s or whenever it was that place of birth was determined to be an important piece of information. I would argue that it is really only important nowadays for countries in the Americas, since most other countries in the world base citizenship on blood ties and who your parents were, paying little to no attention to where you were born. I think that international passport standards should be re-evaluated accordingly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jus_soli_world.png
@rødgrød – Actually much worse can happen beyond just being taken aside for a few minutes. The brother of one of my friends here in France became an EU citizen and renounced his US citizenship (for this country he was not allowed to retain US citizenship). He went back to the US just to see his mother who lives on the US West Coast and they gave him hell at the border. He didn’t have a CLN (apparently didn’t know it was necessary) and he was questioned for over an hour and it was not pleasant. According to my friend he was not at all sure they were going to let him in. They did but whatever they said to him sure worked because he hasn’t gone back to the US since. You could describe him as angry, disgusted and, frankly, fearful of what his reception might be next time around.
Just in passing I thought I would mention another possibility besides passport renewals for pushing Americans overseas to comply with the tax and reporting laws: Green Cards for spouses of US citizens. These could be denied until the US citizen complies and also could be used to convince those recalcitrant foreign spouses to spill their financial information to the US government. No information, no Green Card. Of course, this would only work if the foreign spouse is interested in living and working in the US.
I also wonder about passport renewals for minors. There are already some limitations to issuing a US passport to a dual US/other country citizen. For one thing, it requires the permission of the foreign spouse. Could they say that no one in the family gets a Green Card or a passport until the US citizen complies and pays up?
@Victoria, it could have been much worse: Under the Reed Amendment enacted as part of the US Immigration law in 1996, if a primary motive of his renouncing US citizenship was to avoid having to pay US taxes when living abroad he could have been blacklisted and denied permission to ever visit the US. There is no indication as yet that this law is being enforced, but FBAR, on the books since the early 1970s was not, until recently, being enforced either. Now it is and with a vengeance. So as long as the Reed Ameicmnt remains on the books it hangs like a sword over the neck of every ex-American who has been freed from the obligation to submit US tax returns by renouncing US citizenshp.
Roger, it’s one thing to renounce because you don’t want to file taxes, and it’s another when you renounce because you can’t get a bank account, or you fear getting your accounts closed. The US caused this problem, yet I highly doubt they’ll ever accept culpability for it.
I’m currently podering my options: If I renounce now, then travelling will be more expensive on a UN Travel Document because it’s only good for a trip THERE and BACK. The upside is that I will care less about what happens in America. No more having to deal with being called all sorts of bad names when I’m doing nothing wrong.
I kind of feel like a Ron Paul. No kidding. I feel like I could stand in front of Times Square with a giant poster explaining the situation: WE OWE NO TAXES BECAUSE WE ALREADY PAY MORE WHERE WE LIVE. And guess what? You’d never see that message on TV in America because it doesn’t fit the “image” the US Gov wants to show. Conspiracy? Nope.. all someone has to do is reference politicians statements going back to the 1960s.