People have posted and commented on their consulate visit experiences. This is very useful information, but has been difficult to access as it appears on various threads. So, I have assembled them into a Directory of Consulate Reports, organised by location. I expect to add more reviews over the next day or two as I continue to search past postings, and of course we’ll add new reviews as they arrive.
Keep ’em coming! You can write your consulate visit story on this thread or any other thread (we’ll keep an eye out for them) and we’ll transfer them to the Directory. Thanks to everybody for sharing your experiences!
For the Consulate Report pages, I have edited or excerpted some comments. The original posts and comments remain on their threads and have not been edited.
Canada
Europe
@all I plead the 1st, and Son of Liberty’s UDHR arguments. @Petros, if you want to edit my post and put a comment in to the effect of [please concentrate on the video’s discussion of unsucessful attempts to renounce, and ignore anything else that might offend you] then that is fine but I have no access to do so.
Somebody has mentionned trying to get Israeli residents to join up. They are welcome. Personally I wish that the Israeli government and the Palestinians could come to an arangement to cut each other some slack as I believe that a lot of terrorism uses the current situation there as an excuse for action. I wouldn’t have been a human shield like O’Keefe because I know the story: the US supported Sadaam for ages because of Iran. “We” stood by while he gased, murdered and tortured his people. “We” should have stopped that guy ages ago. Nonetheless the US went about the 2nd war the wrong way. But these comments are not the central topic of IBS, just my opinion. Yet I have the right to express them.
We should concentrate on the central issues: the US government is trying to #### us and our families and and we are not going to put up with it.
@Jefferson: Nope. I was granted Danish citizenship provisionally. The provision was that I give up other citzenships. I had two years to do so (though it only took me a couple of months) or I would lose my right to be granted citizenship. It was therefore impossible for me to relinquish, because I had not yet been granted the actual Danish citizenship. trust me; I know what i’m doing.
But no matter if you renounce or relinquish, you are not officialy logged out of the US tax system until you file form 8854. Renouncing or relinquishing does not relieve you of any tax obligations. I’m not bothered by having to file a few forms if it makes life simpler for me in the long run. And yeah, it’s irritating having to pay $450 bucks to renounce but I prefer that to having to use Life Credit Units arguing with bureaucrats about whether or not mutilating my passport constitutes renunciation, or if Hawaii is a soverign nation, blah blah. 😉
Wow y’all. I’ve just returned to this site 24 hours after my initial posting yesterday suggesting the deletion of the O’Okeefe video. Not to beat the proverbial dead horse, but I’ve taken another look at the video and decided to shamelessly reverse myself: I think the video should absolutely stand. Given a choice between openness and risk or political sensitivity and censorship, I would definitely go with the former. If we have to think about whether a comment or video we post is politically correct or offensive in some way where would that lead us? According to a previous comment on the history of this site, this is exactly what this site is not about. Furthermore, anyone taking the time to read the comments on this thread will show that there’s been an intense, open and vigorous debate about the video. To me, that is the appeal of this site and immunizes us against the charge of being offensive. This site’s appeal is not only the invaluable information and support, but the free and open no-holds-barred, give-and-take discussions – the “culture” of open discourse. Our values, if you will, are the opposite of those of the forces we are allied against. renounceuscitizenship summarized it nicely:
Why not celebrate our differences and move on.
Cheers!
@ Jeff I have done as you requested and added my own note.
Question: what are UDHA and UDHR?
UDHR is Universal Declaration of Human Rights, UDHA was a mistake, @petros if you see that somewhere would you please correct as I can’t edit posts in this thread.
@all Anyway, political correctness should not be abused to the detriment of the 1st. A former boss once threatened me with consequences with HR because I discussed with a UK colleague about abuses of the welfare system in UK. “You don’t have the right to insult the other guy’s country” (even though the UK guy agreed with most of what I said). That really made me angry because in my country we also have free speech guarantees in the constitution.
In any event we need Mopsick around to get another angle on the issues and I hope he stays.
Back to renouncement stories…
Here is a video about a Colorado man renouncing by mail, but I think most of us here at IBS would not agree with him because we all support residence based taxation (I think the guy just wants to avoid paying taxes at all) I also don’t believe his story about him notarizing his own documents. If you don’t get a notary all you can do is swear under penalty of perjury. Anyway he is in the US so he can’t renounce successfully. I wouldn’t recommend this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U8O1AZROmk
Here is another guy, Kanebel who burned his passport (not exactly a formal renunciation either) it seems that India let him stay on as a stateless person if we believe the video. I am not recommending this method to anybody but it is interesting that the Indian police are letting him get by with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSeLVebtCds
Yet another guy who seems to claim New Hampshire citizenship and claims that he has renounced Federal Citizenship explains himself in the next video. Again, he is still living in the US and has a passport (not sure I believe his story about applying for a passport). Yet again, his approach goes against our principles of residence-based taxation: he should pay taxes if he lives in the US. I wouldn’t recommend this approach. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3OqNwBbibI&feature=related
The guy that started the World Government of World Citizens and the World Passport renounced his citizenship and still lives in the US. A World Passport is not completely bogus (as long as the information in it is accurate) but not recognized by all governments at all times (although there have been some exceptions and I even see diplomats in Europe carrying them along with their national passports, I guess to make a statement about the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which is considered the founding document for the World Service Authority. http://www.worldservice.org/docpass.html
Renounced at Calgary U.S. consulate in February 2012. One daughter and I renounced. We were the only ones in the waiting room, after the security guard came and escorted us up the elevator. We had to wait a few minutes and then dealt with a woman at one of the windows, who took our documentation, made some copies, and confiscated our U.S. passports. She was dismayed that my daughter did not have her Birth Abroad of a U.S. Citizen paper. A few days later, this was found and sent to the consulate, after e-mail correspondence. We had our separate discussions with the U.S. consul. This was in an area just off the seating area, and anyone in the waiting area would be able to hear your conversations. The consul presented a lot of arguments of why-not to renounce. Fairly weak ones, citing global warming, and what if you won a lottery and wanted to live south all the time. At some point, you will be asked, “what makes things different now, from all the past years that you did not renounce?” My daughter and I had both submitted written reasons why we were renouncing, so we reiterated some of them. When he realizes that you are not backing down, he then allows you to sign the papers and take the oath. At one point, I did express that I was angry that I was not being allowed to renounce for my other daughter with a developmental disability. And pointed out that her guardian and alternate guardian had just renounced. He came back with the reply that perhaps in the future she would have a different guardian who wanted to live in the U.S. I also told him that I resented this daughter’s appointment being cancelled by the Calgary consulate. He did agree to re-book that appt., if I wanted to, but told be he would interview her privately, and if he thought she did not know what citizenship was, that he would not let her renounce. I cannot put her through this, so will not be making that appointment. The consulate told my other daughter and me that it would be 6-12 mos. before our Loss of Nationality papers would be mailed to us. In the meantime, we were still U.S. citizens and could even vote. We did get some very small receipt indicating that we had paid $450 each for our renouncing fees.
@Cecilia, your story is, all at the same time, funny, sad and appalling. Congrats on the steps you’ve taken, and I’ll keep my hopes up for people like you and Calgary411 that your situation with your children will be resolved positively.
@Cecilia, thanks for sharing your story. Global warming? Seriously?? That is bizarre!
I find it strange that he told you that you are still US citizens until your papers arrive. The renunciation is supposed to be valid from the day you sign the oath.
I am sorry to hear that they are giving you a hard time about your daughter.
Yes, Rodgrod–he was serious about global warming and said, “perhaps Canada would become uninhabitable!” I am still trying to figure that one out…
Cecilia, you should have said your US citizenship was already making Canada uninhabitable for you.
@Cecilia
How were you able to keep a straight face over global warning ‘perhaps Canada would become uninhabitable’. Amazing. Perhaps he only remembers part of Al Gore’s movie!!!
Perhaps global warming would benefit Canada and Northern States. These guys from Minnesota seem to think so. (I can tell you that I’m loving summer in late winter/early spring this year in Ontario).
@Cecelia;
Thank you for sharing your story. I feel appalled and angry on your behalf and that of your daughter. I was to have been a backup guardian for a sibling with intellectual disabilities if my parents could not continue being her caregivers, and I’ll never forget trying to travel by train together across into Canada – the customs officer did not believe at first that my sibling couldn’t answer his questions. But for fate, we would perhaps be experiencing the same scenario at a consulate. The official should answer for his ridiculous and inappropriate comments – particularly the one about finding a guardian who might want to live in the US. And the separate interview is also inappropriate – it is in your daughter’s best interest to have the same status as her guardians. The state elevating the preservation of US status over an individual’s right to security and wellbeing – as determined appropriately by her parent and legal guardian.
The one about global warming is just totally incomprehensible. Are there no standards for the performance of these duties? Can they just say anything that comes to mind – with no filter?
I am saddened by stories like the one above. Isn’t it astounding that the U.S. Government plays such mind games with people that come from countries where laws are obeyed, but allowed millions of undocumented Mexicans to literally walk into the U.S. without so much as an ID check. Now, these once (Mexican) migrants are practically U.S. Citizens for just having strolled across the border, while many of us can’t seem to throw off our U.S. ties to save our lives – irregardless of the facts or logic.
My greater point being that the U.S.Government is only interested in harassing us because they think there is easy money in it for them, while the Mexican migrants go mostly unnoticed because the IRS is sure that there is no easy money to be had there. The Mexican government regularly tells the IRS to stay out of it’s affairs. This is an obvious form of discrimination against non-Latino persons that get caught up in the IRS’s global intimidation dragnet. I see this as another basis for discrimination lawsuits if the IRS continues to insist on turning the EU into a American tax collectors paradise.
Vancouver First Visit: Eight days after making the appointment I had my first renunciation meeting at the Vancouver Consulate. The worse part of the whole experience was waiting to get inside (although I met some nice people in line). I arrived 20 minutes early for an early morning appointment. There were two lineups outside – one for Visas and one for American Citizen Services. The visa lineup was much longer than the ACS lineup which I was in.
After standing outside for 55 minutes I was summoned inside the door and put all my belongings in trays and then I (and my belongings) went through the scan. Once I was deemed to be free of any forbidden items I was escorted by a security guard on an elevator up to the 20th floor consulate office.
I started by going to a window to get my ticket, then was sent back to sit down to wait to be called to another window. There a man spoke to me briefly and took my U.S. and Canadian passports and some other documents I had brought to photocopy and start a file for me. He then sent me back to sit and wait to be called to talk to a consular officer who spoke with me for about 20 minutes. He described what the loss of my citizenship would mean to me and asked me why I was renouncing. He told me that I would be called back in about two months for my second meeting when I will see a consular official and sign documents such as the CLN. They will let me know what documents I am to bring to that meeting. That is also when I will pay the $450 fee. Then I can expect to wait about a year to get the official CLN from Washington. He also said that the CLN sent from Washington will show the date that I sign the document at my second Vancouver visit as the date of loss of citizenship.
I asked about travel across the border during the period between signing/giving up my U.S. passport and receiving the official CLN. He said that I should travel with my Canadian passport and if a border guard questions me about that I would simply respond that I have renounced my citizenship but do not yet have the CLN document to be issued from Washington. There was at least one other person there to renounce/rescind while I was there.
All the consulate staff that I dealt with during the process were cordial and very professional. I never felt any recrimination from anyone for what I was doing. They simply did their jobs and did them well. So, don’t have an anxiety attack over this if you’re planning to renounce/rescind in Vancouver. Just make an appointment and start the process. (You make an appointment by emailing the “notary and other services appointment” address you find on the Vancouver Consulate website.)
The whole process from the time I actually got inside until I was escorted out took about 50 minutes. I noticed when I got out that the lineup was much longer so I would recommend getting an appointment as early in the day as you can to beat the longer lineups.
Nitty-gritty Notes: Some people who went in were sent back outside to get rid of pills, etc. Someone in line told me that a place across the street would hold your cell phone for you for $5 but I can’t confirm that. I noticed a washroom on the main floor right by the elevator that takes you up to the consulate. There’s a Starbucks and another really good coffee place right by the consulate in case anyone needs a drink after their experience.
A good day! However, I still have another appointment to go. Once that’s done, I’ll feel relieved because there isn’t anything more that I can do after that but wait for the wheels to grind.
@Ladybug
Just to be clear, are you renouncing or relinquishing. Didn’t your hubby relinquish years ago? If renouncing, why were you not able to relinquish?
@tiger
I’m renouncing (rather than relinquishing) because, after I became a Canadian citizen (much later than my husband did), I kept my U.S. citizenship by continuing to hold a U.S. passport and file tax returns. I wanted to be sure that I had across-the-border access to be able to spend extended periods of time with my parents if they ever needed me to as they were elderly. Perhaps unnecessary, but I just wasn’t sure if laws might change for non-citizens’ length of stays in the U.S. and I didn’t want to take any chances. They are both now deceased so that tie is no longer there.
@Ladybug
I assume then you are compliant with all the tax forms. Do you now have to file that special ‘exit’ tax form (I forget the number) and then a part year form for 2012?
Should I choose to go to the consulate to file for a very past due CLN, my consulate will also be Vancouver. Good to hear that they are all polite and treat you fairly.
Congratulations, Ladybug
@tiger
Who can know if they are compliant with all tax forms? I can’t even keep up with all the new forms, much less understand them anymore. I have a cross-border accountant doing my 2011 taxes for me to make sure everything is done properly (I’ve had accountants doing it for the past ten years but not cross-border. Before that I was doing them myself). Yes, I’ll have to file for part of 2012 and also the 8854 exit form after I get the CLN, although the consul officer didn’t mention this yesterday – probably will at the next meeting. I wonder if the IRS considers you to be delinquent with filing if you are waiting for over a year to get the CLN before preparing the “final return.” Another question to ponder.
I do not think that the CLN will be given until you are compliant with all IRS forms, taxes and penalties. After renouncing Feb. 2012, I have sent forms 1040, 2555EZ, 8891 (mailed off to IRS in Texas) and FBar (mailed to Detroit)for 2011. For 2012, I have sent 1040NR, 2555, 8854 and 8891 (again to IRS in Texas) and FBar (to Detroit.) For that last year, you go from Jan. 1, to the day BEFORE you renounce, for tax purposes. So, it is good to print a statement of all your financial accounts on that date. These are the forms that I filled out. This may vary for each person, according to his/her circumstances and financial situation.
@Cecilia
I should be in compliance when I get my CLN because I have filed U.S. tax returns as long as I’ve lived here and will have my 2011 return (and required additional forms) sent in as soon as my accountant can get it finished in April; however, I thought that the tax return for the final partial year of citizenship (in 2012 for you and for me) would be done after you received the official CLN from Washington. I see you’re getting it all done before that. Frankly, I’d like to do it the way you’re doing it and have my part all over with asap. I certainly was planning to get all my financial info together as soon as I have my next consulate meeting which will be my official date on the “official” CLN I receive probably a year later. However, I thought the IRS didn’t consider you “officially” a non-citizen for tax purposes until you had the signed and sealed document from Washington in hand and therefore you had to send in the final tax return and forms after receiving that (showing the date of the consulate visit where you signed the “draft” form that is sent to Washington.) Your suggestion to print a statement of all financial accounts on the day prior to renouncing is important.
@Ladybug
You may be correct on waiting to file that last partial year with the IRS. I will wait and see if the IRS accepts the early 2012 filing of mine. The problem is, how do you ever know, if all has been acceptable? It is very “freeing” to have renounced!
@Cecilia
I would think you do have to wait to file it. I know in Canada, you would have to wait. The tax return forms each year are different and you can not say file a 2012 return using a 2011 form. Need to wait until the 2012 form is out.
I’m pretty sure the CLN and the IRS are unrelated (you’ll get your CLN regardless of your IRS status). I got my CLN a month after my renunciation but I won’t be able to file the 8854 and the 1040NR until the 2012 forms are out.
@Ladybug @rodgrod
On April 4, I received an e-mail reply from the IRS regarding the last filing after renouncing. It stated: “Generally, you would not submit tax returns for the 2012 tax year until the tax year has been completed and the appropriate tax forms are available. Most IRS forms,instructions and publications become available in January following the end of the tax year. Since you have stated that you have already filed your 2012 tax return, it raises the question of how you were able to do so. If you used forms for the 2011 tax year, and you previously filed your 2011 tax return, you may experience delays in processing, as the IRS is currently in its peak season for processing 2011 tax returns, and are not expecting any 2012 tax returns until January 2013 at the earliest.” So, I will have to re-file again in 2013, the same forms. You both were correct.