Following in the footsteps of James Fallows, who questioned the Brock identity, markpinetree has just registered his wish that the Isaac Brock Society morph into Americans Abroad Society.
One of the interesting aspects of this virtual watercooler, and of the technology that makes it possible, is that place does not matter. Off the top of my head, besides Canada, we have Belgium, Brazil, Denmark, France, Hong Kong, India, New Zealand, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom … and USA.
Elsewheresers are welcome to make that listing fuller. No intent to omit. With Brockers thus far in March spitting out an average of over 17,000 words per day, keeping track is a stretch.
It has to be pointed out that numbers and proximity and activity and reporting all contribute to putting Canada at the forefront of our situation.
This digressive opening is heading toward a tangent that has been percolating for a while now. Call the topic the lexicology of the general description. Specifically, what are the possibilities for designating US-connected persons who reside somewhere besides the United States?
The three organizations in the Links section of USxCanada InfoShop have gone for either abroad or overseas. Both of those terms have a temporary, away-from-home aura that seems irrelevant. “Overseas” sounds plain weird to anyone living in Canada. (“Overlakes” for a few of us, perhaps?) And “abroad” reeks of a circa 1900 idler class on the grand tour, or a college student taking advantage of an educational option.
Expatriate or a derivative like expat sounds either like a job advertisement in the Guardian or some 1920s bohemian. Exile may be where some are beginning to find themselves due to unwilled constraints, but the term is dramatic for the politics so far.
Foreign is so xenophobic. Think of all those poor little US government employees in the foreign service! By the way, my bank account is not foreign to me even if it does happen to be located in Canada. FBAR yourself!
Alien has a nice sci-fi quality, especially when applied to resident aliens encircled by some US border.
Outlander has a preposterous ring — and pairs well with the “homeland” established by the United States in the past decade or so. To be outlandish in present circumstances has definite appeal.
Negativity could generate a whole separate list, like nonparochial or anticolonial.
Coinage might provide something interesting like counterinsular or supraimperial.
So far, I find myself gravitating toward extraterritorial. For one thing, I have not noticed the US State Department or the IRS making any use of that word. For another, I can hear echoes of Huck Finn.
Whatever you choose, I hope you remain a “big tent” organisation. If there is one defining feature of IBS folks I would suggest it is having been victimised by the ongoing FBAR shakedown that started in 2009. In my mind that is US immigrants, US expats and accidental (or reluctant) Americans.
Having said that I do acknowledge that there is an enormous Canadian centre of gravity to IBS due to the number of affected Canadians. I am personally grateful for the awakening of the Canadian consciousness to the FBAR problem. It was quite a lonely fight for people like me and Just Me until the Great White North got angry :-). I quite like Isaac Brock metaphor; it’s Canadian centric, but rightly so.
I’m happy with the name Isaac Brock, but for just referring to ourselves as people (as “a people”, dare I say?), I kinda like the word “outlander”. No fancy bureaucratic Latinate roots in it; good old down-to-earth word. Our fellow West Germanic languages use similar words for foreigner too. Afrikaans has “uitlander”, while German has “Ausländer”. (Dutch is a bit different: “buitenlander”. “Buiten” has two cognates in English: “about” — the meaning has shifted, though you can still see the original sense in words like “whereabouts” — and “but”. Sadly, “aboutlander” doesn’t really make sense in English unless you belabour the point by writing “out-and-aboutlander”. And for obvious reasons, “butlander” isn’t a good idea).
I think we should keep the name Isaac Brock. It is unique. In addition to the byline “Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad” I think we should have something like “Resist American Bureaucratic Imperlialism”
For some reason “Emigrant” reminds me of an elderly women placed on a pedestal on an island in the New York Harbor. If my memory serves me corerectly there’s an inscription on the pdestal that goes something like this:
“Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”
That statue’s name was……… whatchamacallit again?
The problem is emigrant doesn’t directly refer to the accidental americans that were born to emigrants of the US or the new imigrants to the US that are also having their fair share of problems.
my .02¢
Please don’t ask me why I refered to her as an “eldIerly woman”. I must have just suffered an elderly moment at the time i was writing 🙂
Or is call a senior moment?? 🙂
Today is just not my day 🙁
“Or is it called a senior moment.” is what I wanted to say 🙂
How about
“Isaac Brock Society
Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad”
Do not ignore the significance of the 100th anniversary of the War of 1812 which served to guarantee the separate identity of Canada.
I like the Isaac Brock name, but then, I AM Canadian. As such, I do not consider myself an expatriate, alien or foreign, nor do I consider myself a ‘United States person abroad’. However, I don’t much care about the name (other than liking the symbolism) or the description as long as the site remains open for all people, regardless of country. I have told so many people about this place that I’d hate to see the name change just because of that.
Joe: I hope you meant 200th anniversary.
I recognize the need to embrace all people around the world who are affected by this outrageous US policy, but I am loathe to surrender the Brock name since it has such a cachet. And indeed, Canada has by far the biggest diaspora, although I will predict that in ten years time all US diasporas around the globe will shrink to infinitesimal size as the hoards go through the renounce/relinquish process.
There is already an American Citizens Abroad organization, and I see Brock is listed at the top of their links section. Could we ask them, to give us a more prominent spot on their web site? I wonder, too, whether or not we need to consider that (and I’m guessing here) the majority of Brockites seem hell-bent on ditching their US connections rather than hoping that anyone in the US will ever do the right thing and change the rules. For that reason, would it be a mistake to “Americanize” the blog’s name?
I’m on the fence here, because I would like to ensure that whatever we call ourselves, we get noticed. And if a rose by any other name gets us more attention, then I’d reluctantly go along with it.
I think Isaac Brock Society is the perfect name for this site and it represents what we are trying to do which is to become unAmericanized.
Calling ourselves Americans Abroad Society would dilute the purpose of this site. There are already lots of websites calling themselves Americans Abroad whose purpose seems very different from ours and we wouldn’t want to be confused with them.
Isaac Brock Society sounds like a bunch of intellectuals trying to find a solution to a problem. For most of us the primary purpose for being here is to ditch our US citizenship.
I think the tag line Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad says everything we want to say.
How about the “Double Tea Party” 😉
Considering the state of Canadians’ knowledge about their history and the 200th! Anniversary of the War of 1812, and the fact that so many of us are Canadians who now recognize that the “Red Coats are the Good Guys”, Isaac Brock Society sounds great!
We already have name recognition. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Most importantly, this 2012 US incursion, though a non-violent one, nevertheless is destroying people’s health and well-being. I find Gen. Brock inspirational because he symbolises a victory over US extraterritoriality. Gen. Brock can be an inspiration to all, anywhere in the world, as we fight with non-violent legal means to protect ourselves, our families and our countries.
As well, we’re a mix of American citizens, dual citizens, former citizens, soon-to-be former citizens, etc. Some of us are not Americans, so I definitely would not like to see that word in the name.
Having “Liberty and Justice for all United States Persons Abroad” as our tag line is good. Clear, concise, non-partisan, all-inclusive.
@pacifica777
so right
we should not rebrand success
Indeed
Whatever we do, please keep the word American out of it. I have spent the last several months trying to prove I am NOT American. Belonging to any group which calls itself American Whatever would undo that.
I like Issac Brock. In fact I feel like Isaac has become my most frequent and trusworthy date. (Yikes! What does that say about my life?!?)
We could always call ourselves Dueling Citizens. Geeez pointed out some people were using Duel instead of Dual to describe double citizenship. He explained Duel means a gun battle. Well, many of us feel we are in the fight of our lives, under attack from the U.S.
Sorry for causing all these reactions. I guess you want to remain a Canadian site. I respect.
@markpinetree…
Don’t apologize. It is alright to bring up the question for discussion.
Personally I don’t care what the name as much as the mission, and I am happy with the mission.
This site was started in Canada, so I don’t have a problem with it’s distinctive Canadian name. I have learned something about its history I did not know, when I said to myself, “Who is he?”
In fact, I don’t think the name matters that much. I see other blog or Company names that are totally non representative of what they are about. What does Amazon have to do with books, for example?? Or what does google have to do with search? After time, the name becomes the thing, and Isaac Brock may eventually become to represent more than just a historical figure.
This name has resonance with the Canadians that started it. I am fine with that, even if I am not a Canadian. I do feel like it is a big Tent they have created that extends to other countries, even down here in NZ…A Commonwealth brother.
The Canadians have the passion, let it be what it is. It is fine with me.
Nobody in the US knows who Isaac Brock is, so it is a neutral name.
I would change the war painting logo. That might be construed as inflammatory, as declaring war on the US.
Since we are trying to change US laws, it pays to be mindful of how it is interpreted by US politicians and US media, etc.
There are many extremist sites in the US, from gun rights, to Hells Angels, to white supremacists, who have a “quarrel” with the US leadership and its laws.
You don’t want to resemble that.
Agreed. For me, one of the fun, educational, inspiring, and thankfully non-tax-related benefits of this site has been learning about the US’ northern neighbour (which up to this point in my life I had shamefully ignored!), its history, its laws, and its secret path to world domination =).
According to US definition, except for extraterritorials, the whole rest of the world is made up of nonresident aliens. So extraterritorials could call themselves nonresident nonaliens! How did I miss that one? Logic is so hard.
‘Differently Domiciled’ has a nice alliterative ring to it…..;-)
@ all. I think a fundamental decision has to be made about whether you want to be a Canadian-focused organization or an all-inclusive, “big tent” organization, as suggested by Moby. Then I think the naming issue becomes clearer.
What is clear is that most see the Isaac Brock Society as an all-inclusive organization. And even though the Canadian contingent is the most involved, passionate and powerful, and many of the concerns raised are Canadian-specific, most of the issues here concern all Americans abroad. There are a number of non-Canadians on this site – the question is how do you attract more? The more we have, the stronger we are. I guess that’s a priority? If so, then the question is whether realizing this priority calls for a name change, or something else?
Having said that, I guess I’m in the minority in liking markpinetree’s proposal.