I have been reading and thinking about the discussion on the recent CBC story and share the frustrations that many have with media in Canada or America who just don’t seem to get the narrative right (from our POV) when it comes to US Expat citizenship taxation, Voluntary Disclosure programs, or offshore accounts issues (FATCA). It is very hard for us as individuals to get Journalist or Editors attention, have them adopt our narratives, and only occasionally do we have minor success on the fringes like here and here.
I wished I had the magic answer, or some profound insight as how to solve this problem. We must recognize that even organizations like ACA who have been at this for years and years have a hard time getting MSM attention on their many efforts. However, I would like to venture a suggestion of another painful drudgery (I am into drudgery) that can bear fruit….
Persistence
Roger Conklin is an example of this with his success in getting a WSJ letter to the editor posted both on the web and added in the print addition. I was amazed that he was able to get the attention of the Editors of a well respected national paper that is read by many policy makers and people of influence in the US. Was this a fluke, special eloquence, or something simpler…… persistence?
What many of you don’t know, is that in spite his years, and his personal difficulties at home, he is persistence with his writing and commenting at major US new media, like the Wall Street Journal. I have been following those comments for quite some time now. In fact that is how I discovered him and encouraged him to come over to Isaac Brock Society and make some comments here. Renouceuscitizenship, picked up on his back ground and highlighted his perspective in the post titled US Citzenship based taxation harms US Economy .
I have noticed how through the persistence of his civil commentary on any article even remotely addressing trade and tax policy, that there are more and more commentators responding to him and picking up or confirming his themes.
Here is the lastest example of the comment thread that is running on the current WSJ article called Fade in China, Made in America. Start reading the comments from a day ago from Arron Brown.
Consistent Talking Point
I would venture the thought, that it is Roger’s persistence in repeating the export job loss and trade deficit angle over and over and over again in the comment sections is why the WSJ responded to his letter to the editor and decided to publish it over the hundreds of other letters they must receive. In addion, just like a politician with a “Talking Point“, Roger hammers home consistently on the theme that the US citizenship model is damaging on US Trade policy, creates US Trade deficits and hurts export jobs created in the homeland.
That is a theme, talking point if you like, that resonates more in the US media, than our perceived whinging about the unfairness of the IRS tax jihad that is directed against homeland tax cheats and evaders, but impacts us instead. It is hard to get any attention or sympathy out of self-centered Americans, (or Canadians) who I would venture a guess, don’t care about our problems unless it is perceived to be harming them. Then it gets their attention.
Non partisan civility and echo chambers
In this day and age of partisan politics with hyperbolic blogs, and name calling commentary on the web, I think we have to recognize that to reach outside our blog, you have to be perceived as non partisan and have a civil presentation. I fail at that all the time! Grrrr me.
We have to be honest with ourselves, and recognize that our blog here, is a bit of an echo chamber. Even with it’s ever increasing readership, and sometimes spirited but civil disagreements, we have to find ways to reach outside it better to get the infamous “Lame Stream Media’s” attention. (Can’t believe I am going to use a Palin quip, but it works! )
I don’t have the answers on how to do this best. I am not a media consultant, didn’t play one in a movie, nor am I especially astute or insightful when it comes to these things. What I do try to do is observe what seems to “work”, and then try that over and over and over. Right now, I have been observing Roger’s comment model of a defined talking point, a targeted media outlet like the WSJ, and his persistent facts and figures presentation which has an even, civil tone.
In some ways, maybe we need a media consultant to help us fine tune our message for the press. We need a consistent Talking Point that works. We need a Frank Luntz amongst us to help us with the key language of our message. Anger and passions works sometimes to generate attention, but I think we have to also look at the role of persistence, use of key language, well structured talking points plus civility if you want get a message into the MSM media.
We may or may not like it, but “pro-life” and “death tax” are examples of deliberate language choices made by activist to better shape a message that a certain group wants in the public debate. It works. I am not sure what works for us, but even the term US Expat may be the wrong language for self identification if it triggers the wrong response in the hearer. If it conjures up an image of someone slightly exotic, rich, devious tax evader and/or non patriotic, then it fails. Victoria has eloquently discussed the perceptions vs the actual in Day in the life of the US Emigrant
Media Experimentation
Since Isaac Brock doesn’t really have a media arm or an over arching media strategy, it is upon us individually to experiment with many things even if the first efforts are imperfect and not finally tuned. Try something, and if it doesn’t work, incrementally adjust it and try again. There are many resources these days in our interconnected world that we can use. This blog is one of the excellent ones, but old style letters and emails, new style social media (even though personally, I hate facebook), and seemingly trivial 140 character Twitter tweets can have effect. (I am still experimenting with it.) There are other internet sites like Reddit, which many media use now to find hot topics, so I have started to experiment there too. I decided last night to post the CBC story there and observe what does or not happen. Not a huge success, but there are 11 likes, and 1 dislike so that is 12 more people outside our echo chamber that now know something about the subject and would never have found the story without that post.
I am sure there are many many other information sharing avenues out there. I haven’t been putting a lot of time into finding them, but I probably should. It may take 1000 of them, before one gets real attention or yields positive results, but that brings us back to the persistence angle. The drudgery of persistence.
Like I have said, I am into drudgery as it overcomes my many other inadequacies, and heaven knows I have my share of them. I may not have personal connections. I may not be politically correct. I may not be a good lobbyist. I may not have an expert knowledge base. I may not be eloquent, or I maybe too wordy with what I write. We all have our individual weakness, and in spite of mine, Drudgery is something I can do. And boy do I do it! 🙂 It can over come a lot of short falls. You just have to tediously try over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Keep throwing things up against the wall until you find something that sticks, and then repeat it.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained, as they say.
Now, none of this has yet resulted in the type of media narrative that Wondering has suggested, but it is something to ponder. I welcome more comments, observations, suggestions and criticisms from many of the fine minds that contribute here. Let’s learn from each other how to be more effective in our fragmented media outreach and maybe use this thread as a medium to share what is working or not working from each of our efforts.
Thank you.
Yes, it amazes me that nothing seems to have been covered in the media over here in the UK over this, especially as there are so many US expats living here who would be affected. All I can think is that the majority are wealthy enough and are already using specialist accountants, especially as many are linked with US companies who pay their accounting fees.
Some are poor students so wouldn’t be worrying about it, or are US military. I am fairly unusual in that I went native by marrying an Englishman and living like the British and had thus lost touch with America, apart from annual visits home to see my parents.
But I must be fairly unusual which surprised me. I am economically just lower middle class so unfortunately in that grey area financially whereby I’m too poor to pay for fanc y lawyers but with enough assets that I should have been usung a specialist accountant and US financial planner so I didn’t create all the complications. /:
@Monalisa: Perhaps the IRS knew all along what their intent was. The shark knew the whales could afford the lawyers to avoid being devoured, while the minnows couldn’t, so the minnows would be an easy appetizer.
They didn’t anticipate the minnows coming together to fight the shark.
@Monalisa
Its very curious indeed. I just did a search of the Guardian website both internally and through a search engine, and they have never run anything on FATCA or even mentioned the phrase once. I find this curious, since they seem to publish anything with even a hint of US criticism embedded.
@Nobledreamer…
Good find on that French Citizenship/Expat tax proposal. I have spread that as far and as wide as I can.
Thanks for your comments. Sorry I am a bit tardy in responding.
Regarding “Talking Points”. They might vary by country. In America I keep searching for the right one to keep hammering for attention. Roger uses the Job creation angle, and I do think that works in many ways for an American audience. In Canada it is definitely different. I guess it is all about what story or message we/you are trying to get out, and this is a multiple thread story which in ways makes telling it harder.
There can be multiple one, and I know it has to be something that does not use acronyms like FATCA or OVDI or FBAR, as only insiders get what those are. It is convenient short hand for us, but means nothing to everyone else in the broader audience we are trying to reach.
Brash…
You make some very good points and suggestions. Thank you for putting them up here. I do apologize for not acknowledging them before now. Yesterday I was swamped with other demands for my time, and TIME is certainly a key component that is implied in persistence, but needs to be highlighted. Thanks for reminding me of that. In the last few months, I have spent an huge amount of it, mostly flaying around, but limited success. I need to get more systemic in my approach and more efficient, as my time is limited just like everyone else here, and I need to be more organized.
This is a collaborative effort, and figuring out ways to harness the energy here towards a channel effort takes some thinking through.
I do appreciate your “non rocket science list” with the points you make. Those elements are essential, and frankly is a lot of what I see organizations like ACA doing. Now, the question is, do we piggy back on that effort which is already organized, which is just Expat focused (I do some of that as a volunteer) or do we each try to reach a larger audience of 6 million expats. Do we do this individually like we seem to be doing now, or do we get a little more organized with set tasks and duties? Do we include immigrants to America and the vast heartland of “Real Americans” as part of our target, or do we just focus on influencing politicians in the US? That last group, politicians, seems daunting to me given all the many other well funded lobbying organizations which are loaded up with money and suck the oxygen out of available “Legislator ear time”. I don’t have much of that lobbying nectar in my tool kit, and while I recognize the realities, it just viscerally grates on me. Picking our target and than hanging in their consistently is important as you say.
Humm. I am going to have to think about your comments some more, and wonder if it is not time for a few us of us that have the time (an inclination) to be a little more organized rather than just individuals posting on an active blog. The blog allows for sharing of information, and release of frustrations, but maybe we need to do more in the way of organization. Just thinking out loud.
Thanks again.
@Don Pomodoro
Thanks for pointing out the value of the Reuter’s article. Amy did a good job putting a human face on the problem, and frankly it was with a lot of trepidation, that I allowed my name to be used.
I am trying to remember back, how I caught her attention and interest, but it was one of my many unsolicited emails in response to something that she wrote about FATCA that started the ball rolling. She replied, which frankly is rare, and then something else I said must have tweaked her interest as she came back wanting to talk. I should go back and see what it was specifically that kept the interest and conversation going. Maybe I need to be repeating it with others.
Speaking of the Guardian. It has been one of my home pages for a long time, and I do have a list of Guardian journalist that I have emailed many times. Maybe it is the wrong list, as I have never ever gotten a response or acknowledgement, and so have dropped them from my efforts. If you have any suggestions of who you would think is receptive, I would be happy to try pitching them a story angle again, but it is hard to stand out in the haze of the emails they must receive and the problem probably seems distant to them.
@Fullturtle…
“What say all of you? Worth taking a SERIOUS look at this??”
Thanks for that good long comment. I think it is worth taking a “Serious” look at. It may not just be Isaac Brock centered, it could just be a smaller grouping of focused effort, but if there were a group of volunteers that were willing to put sometime and effort into collaboration collectively, rather than just our separate blogging efforts, I would be interested.. Many have more and different skills than I have, and would like to build on that. I continue to volunteer and contribute to ACA, but maybe some other effort is warranted too. Or maybe we should channel more resources there. Don’t know.
Mulling it over.
Boris Johnson would probably be sympathetic to our plight, having given up the US passport, himself.
Another thing that’s occurred to me is how London has a super rich elite who probably prefer to deal with the IRS when possible because they would be paying lower taxes to the US than to the UK. They often will make every effort to become non-UK domiciled which is why HMRC decided to introduce an optional £30,000 annual charge that would thus enable rich UK residents to have the rest of their offshore assets free of UK taxation.
One reason I’m hesitant to become publicly outspoken is because I’m in the early stages of a quiet disclosure involved several years of amended returns showing a sharp increase in income that resulted in significant US double taxation. I’d rather not stick my neck out though realize I could write some letters anonymously to the local papers I suppose.
This is directed to the folks living in BC. Has anyone had any contact with Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria MP? It might be so, as I haven’t read every word of every post, but I ran across her site today, and she’s been doing some posting on hers.
http://www.denisesavoie.ca/us-tax-information
Just wondered if anyone has tried to engage her. I don’t think she’s done an update in a while, and it might be worthwhile in trying to get her do a post on verifying US status BEFORE doing anything?
@all..
Specific Media contact suggestion.
I listen to PRI’s Market Place almost daily. If I miss it, I down load it and listen as a podcast. They are played on many NPR stations around the nation, and have a large following. I enjoy their business story telling, and highly recommend them to you…
http://www.marketplace.org/
I have posted comments here, here, here and here on stories that they have done in the past. If I have one criticism of Marketplace is that there has been a glaring lack of any FATCA related coverage. In fact, if you do a search on FATCA, the only stories that come up, are ones that I have posted comments on.
I continue to try various angles (contact pages, twitter messages) to get their attention, as I do think they are missing a BIG story here, and don’t quite understand why. I am considering signing up as a Public Insight Source, as I do hear them using those sources in their stories, so maybe I am missing an opportunity here.
https://www.publicinsightnetwork.org/source/en/marketplace/
Maybe some of you would consider doing this too.
Also, in looking at the site today, I see a survey that I am definitely going to make a comment on, as it allows me and you to highlight the complexity of tax preparation for US Expats having accounts overseas. I would really encourage others to do contribute to the survey
https://www.publicinsightnetwork.org/f/marketplace/701899306104/whats-your-tax-preparation-ritual
@Monalisa…
Your Guardian media coverage is the same as the coverage in NZ. Nothing! Australia… Same lack of coverage.
I have recently contacted a journalist here in the NZ northland that I have met and reached out to him as a conduit for introductions to journalist(s) that write for the New Zealand Herald. That still has not bore any fruit. I probably need to try again, but first create that “Press kit” that Brash recommends. I need to be a bit more methodical with my strategy on getting their attention.
@usxcanada
Your core message list is an excellent start for a country specific media outreach.
I need to create a similar one for NZ, as to date, my focus has been US media, but maybe I need to change that.
The problem down here is, I see few Kiwis or US expats commenting on anything related to these subjects. Moby is a Kiwi, and probably sick of the US and would be just as happy to let them wallow in their stupidity without pointing anything out. Which is fair enough. 🙂
I have not found a community of US expats that are equally organized as in Canada, and maybe that is because most of them are ignorant of what is happening. Blissfully unaware? Given the lack of news coverage here, that could be the case.
So now, as Brash says, I need to think about an objective that is NZ specific to reach that audience.
Hmmm. More to think about!
@monalisa1776
“I’m hesitant to become publicly outspoken…I’d rather not stick my neck out”
That is totally understandable, and I think it reflects how a lot readers feel that lurk here and other sites but never post. Fear of being seen and heard.
Frankly that was me too, but now that I have paid the dues for entry into the exclusive club of Post OVDP graduates, I have less concerns.
Petros inspired me with some of his public announcements of who he was on Jack’s Blog. Now that puts a target on his back, which probably frees him up a bit to be more outspoken. He feels he is behind a firewall called the Canadian border. I trust he is correct in his analysis.
There are other’s like Renounceuscitizenship who has an excellent blog in its own right, who would rather remain anonymous right now, but his blogging and tweeting also helps with the messaging.
Victoria who is very public with her blog is a great contribution. Just hope she doesn’t get saddled with the Sarkozy imposted Citizenship tax, as if she went back to America she would still be stuck with two tax systems! http://reut.rs/Axs7bY
For the rest that like to comment, but don’t want your name in the press, that is ok. You can still help in the mission of media outreach through comments online, and requests for anonymity with journalist. In the Reuter’s story, some of you Canadians also had their story told there without their names being revealed. So that works too.
Just Me hits the nail on the head. As expressed by Brash earlier:
3. A spokesperson. Someone articulate, measured and civil willing to speak to the press on go on record. Very important.
It is difficult to do much effective media work without being out there as yourself. I speak from experience. I enjoyed watching Just Me emerge from the shadows on Twitter.
Only a handful of Brockers are easily identifiable with “real” names: Petros, Just Me, Victoria, Roger Conklin, Deckard1138. Most are not.
This is the primary difficulty that we face. See the question as posed at the outset on USxCanada InfoShop.
@all…
One final bit of information or suggestion came to me by an anonymous email source. I post it here, as the sender was reluctant to post online themselves. Now I have to get back to real work!
One thing I have noticed that some have hit on, primarily in the past few months, to overcome this feeling that overseas Americans are … “insert all the common mis-perceptions”… is to ask whether someone who moves from one state to another within the USA should be treated in the same fashion — i.e., if you move from CA to NY, should CA be able to tax you, still?
Another thing is to have good punch lines and ready quotes built into arguments, helping media do its work.
I remember decades ago, when my late husband was university professor and head of department at a US midwestern university, one of the associate professors was going to be let go because of strict university rules regarding quantity of publications required. The fellow was a brilliant analyst; his lectures were brilliant; the students loved him; but he had a mega-writer’s block.
My husband worked behind the scenes with the students and others. He contacted professors from other universities who were “fans” of the prof. in question. Positions and timing were coordinated, and then, come D-day, students held a demonstration, protesting the firing of this prof, holding up signs with readily quotable punch lines (which my husband had helped write). They made sure the local press was there, of course, and when the department was contacted, my husband had a few words to say (good punch lines, well worked out in advance) and a couple of names of eminent scholars to contact for verification (their quotes also worked out well in advance).
It worked like a charm. The news headline was PUBLISH OR PERISH PERILS PROFESSOR, and to this day I recall my husband poring over the article and cackling over the percentage of quotes he had ghostwritten. The professor was kept on (and, alas, never did publish).
Another thing we constantly re-learn is that the news media is very concerned that there be “new” in news.
One has constantly to seek new angles, respond to recently-appeared items. For reporters, anything said publicly 2-3 days ago is already old, not new. So one has to think of new twists to give one’s positions a new airing.
I’m probably only sharing things you already know.
There was such an excellent analogy to our situation, using moving from one US state to another — way back somewhere. I’ll try to find it.
I didn’t find the one I was looking for, but I think Victoria has it posted here (I hope you don’t mind, Victoria — and how are you — we miss you!)
: http://thefranco-americanflophouse.blogspot.com/2012/01/citizenship-based-tax-systems.html
“What if you were born in California but moved to New York early in life. You live and work and pay taxes in New York for 30 years and one day you find out you were supposed to ALSO file and pay taxes to California, because you were born there and never formally renounced your residency! You are a California Tax Evader!
Since you didn’t report your New York bank account to California authorities, they are going to confiscate your assets!
You have been paying full taxes and complying with New York law, but sorry buddy, you were born in California and therefore must report and pay taxes to your birth state until you renounce California residency.
Oh and renouncing will cost you tons of money and California will threaten to never let you set foot across state lines if you do it. Oh, and your adult children are also facing personal bankruptcy; since you were “Californian” your children are also officially “Californian” until they renounce. Your entire family is destroyed and your New York born wife wants a divorce.
Finally, New York banks decide they will no longer let Californians have a bank accounts with them because the reporting requirements for you people are just too expensive. And California banks won’t let you have an account with them either (although they still consider you a resident), because you no longer have an address there. You may therefore have no bank account, no retirement plan, no investments, no credit card, no life.
This grotesque illustration is not at all far fetched. It is EXACTLY what US citizens are facing, if they have for any reason decided live outside of the US. US citizens who have lived outside of the states for decades, who are citizens of another country, who have paid taxes and abided by all laws, are now being pursued and persecuted in a breath-taking witch hunt.
Let me put it another way.
Mitt Romney’s parents were Italian immigrants. After they started living, working, and paying taxes in the USA should they have to keep on paying Italian taxes too? Should Italy have the power to confiscate their house because they didn’t send a report of their US banking activity to Italy? Should Mitt be considered an Italian citizen, be subject to Italian reporting and taxes, just because his parents were born there? Should he face total confiscation of his life assets because he misunderstood or didn’t even know about a reporting requirement? Should he have to hire an expensive Italian tax lawyer fill in annual reports to another country or face prison threats? That is exactly what US law does to its citizens abroad, it is absolutely outrageous and unacceptable.”
@calgary411
I remember that post. Thanks for digging it out. I think I have seen similar comments in ACA recent news releases about Citizenship taxes. It is good theme that might resonant with Americans in the homeland.
quote… The situation is no different from an individual who moves from California to New York: California no longer has any claim on taxation, as it no longer provides services; New York taxes the new resident for services rendered.
@Outragec – “Has anyone had any contact with Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria MP?”
Yes, I checked out Denise Savoie’s website after reading (I believe on a Brock thread) that she was commenting on the issues we’re dealing with. I sent her an email in mid- Jan. to express appreciation for what she and her colleagues are doing on our behalf and asked for their continued support. I received a form acknowledgement the next day saying she was away from the office and that my correspondence would be brought to her attention upon her return. Haven’t had a direct response from her. Also, when I wrote to Hon. James Flaherty in early Feb., I sent copies to her and Minister John Baird and have not had a response from any of them yet. I’ll email her again and request that she provide an update on her website.
Thanks, Ladybug. So, she doesn’t seem to be any different than the others.. bummer…
@All…
Just a shout out to Accounting Today, for their continued regular reporting on FBAR, OVDI, FATCA issues. Generally they are pretty accurate and detailed. Michael Cohn, especially, is a friend and deserves your following, comments and email alerts…
Here is the most recent examples, if you have not seen them…
There are more, but you get the idea.
Senate Bill Would Revoke Passports of Tax Delinquents
Expats Protest IRS Treatment of Citizens Overseas
FBAR, FATCA put pracs on alert Foreign asset reporting requirements get confusing – and scary
Congressman Tells IRS to Back off on Bank Disclosures
@Tim…
Just getting back to Naked Capitalism.. I did a search on her blog on FATCA, and this is all I came up with..
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/09/the-decline-of-manufacturing-in-america-the-role-of-government-neglect.html
Have you posted anything there? Where did you see she is applying for Australian permanent residency?
Wow, a lot of great ideas here. I’m still plugging away here in my own quiet way. I’m spending a lot of time on the phone and in email getting advice. I’ve never been much of an activist so I decided to talk to people who are on all sides of the political spectrum who have experience getting things done.
With that in mind I had lunch yesterday with a fellow blogger here in France and he says that if I write an article he will try to get it published in Le Monde (he apparently has quite a few contacts with the French media). I am mulling it over. As some have pointed out here I need to be careful with the “pitch” – what is interesting and relevant to an American or Canadian audience may fall totally flat with a French one. On the other hand Le Monde is an international paper so the “pitch” would have to be geared to a potential audience outside the Hexagone. I also am fully aware that if I do this I am “out” in a big way. Am I fearful? Not so much for myself but I do wonder the impact on my husband and my children.
@Victoria
I’m not sure how much sympathy we’ll be getting from the French population. Since Pres. Sarkozy stated the he wants to start taxing rich French expats his popularity has risen a few points, as far as i’ve heard 🙁
And as we all know by now ALL expats are rich people enjoying the high life abroad!!!!! 😉