The Taxpayer Advocate Service posted a link on their Twitter feed asking for people to offer suggestions on how to reform the US tax system. Maybe everyone should send them some concerns they have? You won’t receive a response but the page says “Your suggestions are compiled and reviewed by the National Taxpayer Advocate.” It certainly wouldn’t hurt to let them know what we all think of FATCA and FBARs, and it is anonymous. I’ve already put in my two cents. Hope you all will too!
It takes proactive acts to make a change. So, if you haven’t expressed your opinion to either the TAS or your Congressional Legislator, or written one email back to a reporter to counter a incorrect narrative, then change will never come. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Good one zucchero81, for pointing this opportunity out. I definitely will be doing it again!
Zucchero, I’m shocked you actually gave IRS your two cents. I won’t give them a penny.
I’m glad you gave them a piece of your mind though. I’ll do the same.
Thanks for posting this.
Thanks for the link, I will do the same!!
I have just written to the TAS. Thanks for this link!
Thanks, Zucchero. I’m on it. Thinking of just what to say. It will definitely have something about discrimination of registered accounts for disabled in Canada (RDSPs) and other so called “foreign trusts” and what would be the fair taxation — residence vs. citizenship; stress, health; etc., etc. Also no information to us all these years, then whamo; we thought we had relinquished citizenship when taking Canadian citizenship so long ago; why are our “accidental American” kids being targeted as well? Maybe something about immorality too. And, a big thanks to Nina for the TAS Report to Congress and the TAD to the IRS. And, where the heck is the reply by Shulman?
@Calgary411, That sounds good!!
I wrote a comment tonight. I hope it does some good.
@recalcitrantexpat
How did it go at the Consulate on Wednesday?
@nobledreamer- I came away with what I went there for although not quite the way that I had hoped to accomplish things. It was my hope that I could relinquish but I wasn’t able to do that because I had used my U.S. passport twice after becoming a Canadian citizen- once in 2000 and once in 2001- to attend funerals in the U.S.. I don’t know why I used it, since I didn’t need a passport to cross the border. It was my hope that they would go by a preponderance of the evidence, since that was the only infraction that I had committed, but such was not to be.
I could have persued the relinquishment route but the outcome would have been uncertain, so I decided to renounce. I wanted to come away from my trip with something accomplished.
The conversation with the Counsulate official went well. He did try his best to get me to change my mind, as admittedly was his job. We did talk for a long time and I even got to discuss the issue of why the law does not allow renunciation for those who have a court appointed guardian. I pointed out to him that it is discriminatory for the DOS to base its denial upon the person’s disability because it bars them from exercising the same right that is exercisable by all other non-disabled citizens. He did find this argument interesting so he asked me to email him with what I had written so that he could send it on up the chain. He isn’t optomistic that that they will change their minds but he believes that it has merit.
I did point out to him that the IRS regulations with regards to RDSP’s and TFSA’s make my child a second class citizen in his own country. Because when it comes to taxes, U.S. law is allowed to trump Canadian law even when the Canadian citizen resides in Canada. This is something that I said was an injustice and that it was harming my son each and everyday, because the IRS prevents him from exercising fully his rights as a Canadian citizen. It took a while to convince him that this was indeed the reality but he did finally come to understand it when he realized that the IRS was taxing away the value of the benefit.
I have to give the counsulate official credit for having a lot of patience because his job must be tough. It can’t be any fun to have to face a steady stream of people who are leaving the country that you work for. And yes, taxes did come up.
At the end I was told that the CLN would come in 6 to 12 mos.
I want to say a big thank you to Calgary411 for giving me a ride to the Counsulate and keeping all of my forbidden objects back at the house. Before I went back home I and my son got to enjoy a tasty dinner and engage in some intersting conversation with Calgary411 and family.
Thanks, Nobledreamer, for asking about my trip.
@ recalcitrantexpat
I am glad you were able to come away with what you wanted to accomplish. It must be a good feeling. I am not there yet but hoping I will get what I need from “Access to Information” in a month or two. You said that taxes did come up at the consulate today. In what manner, was it just a reminder that you would have to file 5 years of 1040s and Fbars and the awful expatriation form, or did he have more to say regarding taxes.
How long did you have to wait for an appointment at the consulate?
@tiger- Thanks tiger. It is a good feeling but the work isn’t finished yet but it does feel good to have taken this step. When he discussed taxes with me it was just to remind me about the 5 years of back tax filings and the 8854. He didn’t mention the Fbars. What he did give the rational for the filings which, was that they were necessary in order to check for money launderers and drug dealers.
I can’t say that I believe there is anything constitutional about that logic. Having to prove one’s innocence runs contrary to the U.S. principle of justice which is that you are presumed innocent until proven guilty.
I didn’t really have to wait long for the appointment. I requested the appointment on December 16th and got the interview on Feb. 1st, for which I was thankful.
I wish you the best as you prepare for your meeting. I am sure that your application ro relinquish go better than mine did.
@recalcintrantexpt – thank you for sharing your story and for providing the link to the TAS. I will write today.
@Victoria- anytime. We need to help and encourage each other as together we muddle through this mess.
@ recalcitrantexpat
I’m glad it went well for you. I am curious, did you volunteer having used your US passport or was there some record of it? I find it interesting that for the most part, the consular officials do seem to be listening and responding with respect, for what is being said. I am also impressed that you could make the case so clearly, with regard to your son’s situation. Interesting that he would consider passing it “up the chain.”
I think we should make a list of those who have renounced – I don’t know what the timeframe should be but I could start with those I am aware of since I joined the old ExpatForum in mid-October….and sorry if I miss anyone, just doing from memory and I may not remember most who relinquished a long time ago but still have to deal with it (sorry)
Schubert ~1975
Watcher ~2008
renounceuscitizenship
usxcanada ?
Petros ~April 2011
Canadian Hoosier ~Oct 2011
justbrowsing ~Oct 2011
Baird68 ~Nov 2011
Peg ~Nov 2011
myself Jan2012
johnnb Feb2012
rodgod Feb 2012
recalcitrantexpat Feb 2012
rivka88 ~Mar2012
@nobledreamer- I was asked to bring in any U.S. passport that I had, whether or not it was expired. And that is what I did. Since the passport is stamped it would have been only a matter of time until they looked at it and themselves and saw when it was used last. So I saw no problems with voluntarily disclosing these travel dates myself. I figured that things would go better if a person doesn’t try to play any evasive games with them. I didn’t think that I would be doing myself any favours if I made him feel that dealing with me would be like pulling teeth.
I can’t say for sure that they would have carefully examined my passport for evidence of use after I took on Canadian citizenship. But in the end things are as they are and trying to hide the truth would be to behave just as deceptively as did the IRS in the OVDI program.
@recalcitrantexpat – I get it. I have never had either of my passports stamped at US or CDN borders; maybe at airports but I really don’t remember. I agree, best not to do anything evasive.
I have mentioned to calgary 411 before and it seems that there must be someone in Washington who could advocate regarding her son being able to renounce/deal with the RDSP problem. I can’t remember if your son is USC? It seems like going through normal channels is pointless. What do you think?
@nobledreamer- my son is a u.S. citizen. I agree with you that it is pointless to go through normal channels. The people who staff the normal channels are not empowered to make decisions that don’t do according to the book. And for one of them to suggest to a superior that there should be a change in policy, is something that is usually not rewarded.
That is why I was surprised when the Counsulate official that I was speaking with, expressed a willingness to forward my statement on to his bosses. I do hope that it will come to something but I am not sure that it will change anything. The Americans are too wedded to too many bad policies..
On both occassions when my passport was stameped, I was crossing the border at the airport.
Well, I added a couple of comments to the TAS page, and I guess we all should in the interest of using every avenue available to get the message out. But I’ve put my expectations of outcome on their lowest setting.
It’s well intentioned, but I can’t see it producing anything that is actually actionable for TAS. Practically every comment, and there will be thousands, will repeat what the IRS and congress already knows — and has probably known for a long, long time — is wrong with the tax code but hasn’t fixed. These and a few new ones will appear in a TAS report, which congress will then ignore as usual.
Thanks for the link. Sometimes I feel like an intruder here because I am not a Canadian. And not even a native American Living Abroad. I am so glad the TAS is there. This is why I continue to believe in the USA, I just sent them suggestions today. Regards to all.
Thanks for the link to the TAS. I sent them a message. It may not go anywhere, but if there are enough of us it might get heard. I don’t think any amount of “it’s not fair” (although it clearly isn’t) is going to have any effect. So I tried to make the point that it’s actually harmful to the US and the IRS to do what they are doing.
1) It would take a lot of IRS resources to process all the “foreign” tax forms with no tax oweing. At least, if they actually get all the millions of “US persons” living abroad to file as legally required. And there is really no financial return for them on it in the long run (At least not from Canada, and I suspect not from most places)
2) Many of us are renouncing our citizenship in frustration. I suspect that some of us, who have no particular plans or desire to return to the US (like me and my daughter) could otherwise one day find ourselves in a position where we might consider moving there (and taking our foreign earned income with us). My daughter is only 25. Who knows where her life will end up. My mother lives in the US and may someday need care I would like to be able to provide. All things being equal, it would be nice to keep that option open, but the current tax situation is making it very onerous to do so. It does the US no benefit to do this to us.
“All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.”
– Thomas Jefferson
I bet you if they had a 1-800 number that worked from Canada and we all started calling them by the tens of thousands with endless questions about how to fill out our no taxes owing tax returns they would find a way to exempt us!
Oh and the reason they don’t have an IRS office in Canada even though there are so many dual citizens here is that it’s not cost effective.
Well it’s not bloody cost effective for us to pay specialized accountants to fill out forms that say we don’t owe the IRS anything.
“The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax.”
– Albert Einstein
omghe’sstillanamerican.
“I bet you if they had a 1-800 number that worked from Canada and we all started calling them by the tens of thousands with endless questions about how to fill out our no taxes owing tax returns they would find a way to exempt us!”
I use the 1-800 number from New Zealand via SkypeOut. No charge.
Also, many Canadians have calling plans that include toll free to the States, and so the 1-800 works and is free.
So, start calling.. 🙂