My place of birth has begun to bother me more than ever with the systematic rise in discrimination of those with US birth places, clearly obvious for all to see the moment that you open your passport, by banks and other financial institutions due to FATCA. Yes, that horrible component of your personal data that, along with your name and date of birth, allows you to be systematically categorised and cataloged. For many, where you were born also happens to be where you grew up and where you most identify with. Many are born, live and die in the same city their entire lives and come from families that go back generations in the same city as well. Some of my French friends have even told me that an unwritten rule in Paris is that you need to be no less than the 5th generation to be born and raised in the city to be a real “Parisian”.
But what about those of us who, for whatever reason, would prefer our place of birth to not be listed, or for the country name or three digit code (like USA) not to be used? Many are born in countries which they would prefer not to be shown in their passports, and others are born in areas where the legal definition of where they were born is unclear. Those born in Jerusalem, for example, are listed usually solely as being from “Jerusalem“, without a country code in both US and Canadian passports. Similar approaches to Hong Kong are used due to the different country codes after the transfer from British to Chinese rule.
Normally, a country lists you as being born in a city if you were born in the issuing country, unless you were born abroad. The US does the opposite by listing the state and country, but they accept requests for those born abroad to have only a city listed and not the country (they strangely do not accept requests from those born in the US though to only list the city or city with the state). The UK, Germany and several others list your city of birth, even if born abroad. I have a friend from Germany born in “New York”, and it says only “New York” in his passport. Another from India has “Mumbai” in his UK passport. If you are Canadian you may request Passport Canada to enter only a city name without a signifying country code, which might work to deflect unwanted “US Person” status if you were born in a city somewhere vaguely English-sounding that has a duplicate elsewhere (For example there is both a Boston, UK and a Boston,US…). You can even request them to leave the Place of Birth totally blank, though I imagine that that would bring too much unwanted attention.
This is all well and good, but what if your place of birth does not signify where you actually came from, like several on the Canadian border who were born in US hospitals? An alternative exists that several countries use called “Place of Origin” or maybe even just simply “Registered Domicile”. Swiss passports do not list your place of birth at all. If you are Swiss but born abroad, say in Los Angeles, your passport would list your Place of Origin as being Bern if your parents are from there. The idea is to establish where you or your family ancestrally hail from. Japanese passports list simply your “Registered Domicile”, ie where you are living at the time that your passport was issued. My EU passport also lists this information, but unfortunately only in addition to the place of birth.
Two years ago I couldn’t have cared less about where I was born and what was listed in my passport. Now, however, I will be honest with the fact that I am more and more uncomfortable showing my personal details in my passport, especially each time that I open a bank account. I am not a dishonest person – If someone asks if I have US citizenship I will not lie, I just don’t like the unwanted attention that having a US birthplace is already drawing when I open an account. I would love for my passport to just list my registered domicile or place of origin. I find both options to be less discriminatory and arbitrary, and, aside from being born in the US or avoiding military service somewhere like Singapore, there aren’t many instances where “Place of Birth” is really a relevant piece of information except to make us easy for bureaucrats to understand. I am envious of those of you based in Canada, since I have heard that the banks there have absolutely no information on where you were born or even what your citizenship status is. This would not be possible at a European bank – They need to know everything about you almost and you normally can only open a bank account with a passport or national identity card. Driving Licences also aren’t ID in the EU, so no use trying to use that as an ID. Even if you could, they are vastly inferior to the Nexus cards that Canadians can use since EU driving licences list your place of birth as well! My UK licence once said “United States”, while the example UK one above says Wales, so you know that that is not the place of residence at the time it was issued…
Am I alone in obsessing over where I was born and wishing that there were esoteric ways to hide it? I wish my passport just listed where I am domiciled, yet this goes against the general Orwellian trend that governments worldwide are following. I hate that even after somebody renounces US citizenship, there it is, your birthplace, bright and clear for everyone to see and begging to be explained, making me feel like less of a citizen of my own country than those fortunate enough to be born in one of the other 192 countries in the world 🙁
Roger,
I tried to click the link on the article about Americana but it wouldn’t open. Can you make a new one?
@John Hancock, here is the link:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1291&dat=19840826&id=XKZYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xYwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6969,7088699
(It was separated some way; I think this will work for you.)
In Hong Kong, a naturalised Chinese citizen from Pakistan sued the passports office in 2007 to force them to issue him a Hong Kong passport with just his city/province of birth, without the word “Pakistan”. Basically he said that being identified as Pakistani was bringing him into disrepute. Aziz Akbar Butt v. Director of Immigration (HCAL 32/2007):
He won a partial victory (thanks to the example first set by our friends in Canada): the court ruled that the passports office was not obligated by international agreement to include the place of birth, as they had claimed, so they were ordered to reconsider their refusal of his passport application. Sad that a description which was intended to apply to a near-failed state like Pakistan is now equally applicable to the USA …
The place of birth just causes inconveniences in our case and the need to carry the CLN with the passport at all times.
@Roger,
Brazil isn’t like the US. In the US, you can get a form in every language on the the planet. Companies have biligual call centers, etc..
However, in Brazil, everything is in Portuguese. I think it’s quite laughable to think the Brazilian equivalent to the IRS would send me forms that are not in Portuguese. And there are people from all over the world that immigrate here: China, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, India, you name it.
I was thinking last night how difficult it is to come to Brazil and eventually become a citizen. Either you get an investor visa, get married, or have a child. That’s it. Otherwise, you are a *illegal* and you will not be able to do business, or open bank accounts and your life will be very difficult.
Now here I am, all these years later, I risk having my bank accounts closed and a difficult life here as if I were “illegal” because of stupid US laws that have nothing to do with me.
IF that happened, then I “could” challenge it, but there is a cost to that. And few people outside of Brazil know what it’s like to get the “Brazilian run-around”. Court cases take YEARS to actually go to court. The case for renunciation for me seems pretty clear.
@geees, yes I do recall from the days I lived in Brazil how long it sometimes took the courts to resolve cases. One in particular involved a land title in Barra de Tijuca, Rio de Janeiro that was resolved shortly before we left to return to the US in about 1976. I recall because I was constructing what was going to be our home in that same general area. The case had been entered into the court system as I recall in 1898. When it was finally resolved 78 years later the disputed proper had been sold, first by the person the court runed had never held the legal titile, and several times since. With this court ruling owners of the homes that had been built on it learned that the land on which the houses had been built,did not belong to them but to the heirs of the person the court ruled was the legitimate title holder.
When we moved to Brazil after living 4 years in Peru in 1970, the permanent residence visas were issued for my family by the Brazilian Consulate in Lima, Peru before we boarded the plane for Rio de Janeiro. Our Peruvian maid, who we took with us so our 4 small children would not forget Spanish, was only granted a 3-year temporary visa, but it was easily converted to a Permanent Resident visa at the end of the 3 year period with the assistance of a dispachante. Brazil welcomed foreign immigrants back then. with open arms. Since then it has obviousoly become more difficcult.
@Roger, Brazil has a much softer side than the US. I’ll give you the example in a sec., but this is what I have gotten used to. Now when I see how the US treats people overseas and just all the other stuff, the US seems like the alien agressor to me.
About every 8-10 years, the have an “amnesty” program to legalize the illegals. They did this a few years ago. I don’t remember where, but I saw a photo of a room full of people doing that. I saw some Americans, Bolivians, Chinese, etc…
The next thing is the investor program. When I came to Brazil, all that was needed was $50,000 USD. The amounts have gone up since then, but someone’s business plan is up to review, and all the Brazilian government really cares about is if someone can create jobs.
The abstract idea of “citizenship” is intriguing to me. To me, it seems like an artificial construction to keep people either “in” or “out” of a geographical area, or in the US’s case, as a means to control people outside of its geographical boundaries. This may sound a little cliché, but I really don’t feel “American” anymore; rather, as someone who could pick up and live just about anywhere I know the language. After the US indicated that they want to throw me under the bus, I don’t owe any specific loyalty to any country anymore. If a country treats me well, I will reciprocate. If not, I will leave.
Indeed Brazil has a softer side. I was always treated with the utmost courtesy and a more friendly country than Brazil you will never find anywhere. I have been in 98 countries in my lifetime.
A Peruvian son of a friend of ours from the days we lived in Lima got his university education in Brazil, and overstayed his visa. He had to pay a fine equivalent to $30 when he departed to return to Peru, but I heard from him recently and he had no difficutly entering Brazil recently to visit his brother and family who have made a life for themselves in Brazil. He came to the US for graduate studies and overstayed his visa here, but felt like a hunted man so he went back to Peru.
does anyone know WHY passports list your place of birth? What is the point from the issuing country’s point of view? You obviously are a citizen of that country or it would not matter where you were born; so what is the point in stating the place of birth?
@laosuwan, control, control, control, of course!! 😛
@laosuwan and monalisa: indeed, control. Even the US government is forced to admit this:
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/94675.pdf
A few countries (Switzerland, Japan, and South Korea are the only ones I know of) never include the place of birth at all. In South Korea’s case I think they started doing this to avoid problems for their nationals who were born in territory that’s under North Korean control. Similarly I think Japan wanted their nationals who were born in former Japanese colonies (in particular in what’s now part of Russia and China) to avoid having any indication of this fact on their passports. I’m not too sure why the Swiss do it. The U.S. is normally fine with those passports.
In many other countries you can optionally request that your passport does not show your place of birth on it, but the US will very likely deny you a visa or visa waiver on such a passport.
is it possible to denounce country of birth if u r a citizen of another country
Yes, happily it is possible and many of those on this website (myself included) are doing just that. The only problem is that you can never change your place of birth so it is always a blemish in your passport!