86 thoughts on “Fox News Video: Increasing numbers of U.S. citizens renouncing”
I’m glad this is appearing the mainstream media. But one problem:::: I didn’t make “any” money in America!
I still don’t think they get it, I didn’t make ANY MONEY in America either..
It’s funny that you can be a foreigner like me (originally from India, now a Canadian citizen) and do most of your business in the US and not get taxed on it. I run an internet company incorporated in Canada and almost all my customers are American. I don’t file anything with the IRS because legally I don’t have to.
But if you happen to have been born in the US or have an American parent and don’t earn income from there they still want to tax you. It’s like a penalty for having any American association. On top of that no foreigners will want to form a partnership with you due to FATCA.
Actually, thanks to the OP for posting this, but I think they just play into the “myth” that we all got rich in America and just live on a beach. Commmmmmon!
Notice how the woman was actually making sense and the host cut her off to make his own point?
@zucchero81, I noticed that too, he just cut her off, I wanted to hear what she had to say..How Rude he was!!
omghe’sstillanamerican: you’re right. The only way is to renounce and cut all affiliations to the USA. It’s really quite ridiculous: I’m causasian with blue/green eyes and I speak every foreign language with an accent (hopefully not as bad as “typical” resident Americans 🙂 – People will always consider me to be American because I was born there. The US created these illogical rules of theirs leaving us with very few options. That’s the US’s problem, as far as I’m concerned.
I don’t know what line of work you are in, but be careful. If you look at the latest FOX videos, they mention that US law is so vague that they can indite just about anyone. You, having US customers, are especiallly at risk. Be careful.
And I watched several “recent” videos. Now I’m utterly terrified to step foot in America. If I were Petros, I wouldn’t even go near the border 🙂
Thanks for the concern geeeez. I just wanted to point out the insanity of their system … but now I’m going to zip it …
Andrew Napolitano (host of Freedom Watch) is a very good man and true champion of liberty.
However, he, like almost all other Americans living stateside, does not understand what Americans abroad are facing: taxation without representation and without any benefits in return from the government that demands the taxes, which amounts to outright extortion.
I have watched Napolitano’s show for several years now and am convinced that he personally would sympathize with the American Diaspora if he was actually able to understand what they are facing.
The problem however, is that most Americans stateside could care less about the Diaspora. In fact, most stateside Americans perceive Americans abroad with suspicion — like they are committing heresy against the “American dream.”
Stateside Americans also falsely believe that Americans abroad had made their money in the states, then took it overseas. They have no idea that the “land of opportunity” is well on the way of becoming a myth and there are more opportunities for “pioneers” willing to try to stake their claims elsewhere, particularly in the emerging or frontier markets.
Spartacus
“There is no crueler tyranny than that which is perpetuated under the shield of law and in the name of justice.”
– Charles de Montesquieu
Thanks for the link…I was terrified to click on it because I hadn’t been exposed to “Fox News” for over ten years. I was shocked that this wasn’t some sort of “Expat Roast”, but that they actually seemed to have a very minimal shred of empathy.
The comment about making money in the US is obviously not relevant to everyone but great for drumming up catchy one liners, and the host cutting off one of the guests was a bit rude, but otherwise you can’t really expect much out of a 4 minute news segment in terms of details on FATCA, FBAR or the lot.
I was expecting to cringe for all four minutes but that was actually somewhat watchable for me. At least whatever number of people who watch this show now know that US citizens overseas exist and that they are renouncing citizenship. That is a good first step to be primed for all of the (hopefully negative) coverage to hit the US airwaves this year once more people start divesting themselves of US securities.
I am not fond of Fox News…but I was glad they made this visible. We need to educate the media and the public about what we are revolting against. It is not against paying taxes if they are due. It is against considering us criminals without due judgement and against imposing on us much stiffier penalties they impose on the other Americans. I never invested one cent of money l earned in the USA in the country I am living now yet I am considered as someone who does and hides. Lets work to clarify the issues!
When I bring this up to my friends and neighbors they are surprised to learn that US citizens living abroad they understand they are of course subject to the taxes of the country where they live. But universally they are surprised that US citizens abroad are also subject to the same US tax laws as those who live and work within the US.
Most of them wonder why would any American want to live abroad? After all, this is the country that attracts millions from around the world. When they hear statements like those made by Congressman Rangle, they tend to just accept them at face value.
Explaining this “why” ususally makes sense to them, and why it is unreasonable and nonsensical to double tax citizens abroad as well. But this takes time and there 330 million living in US and would take a very long time to expain these things to one person at at time. Not an easy task.
Don´t you think that maybe Americans Living Abroad could start going public? Perhaps with ACA? I would contribute to this (within my limitations). Perhaps an advertise in a national newspaper or magazine trying to clarify the issues. It is not easy. But we have to start somewhere. You know, things like of course we are in favor of the IRS going after Americans who are investing US money in Foreign Accounts and hiding it. Then try to clarify the differences between American Living Abroad and them. Clarifying that the USA is the only Country that taxes its citizens who live and work in another Country Even though we find this strange we are ready to comply with the law. Then clarify about FATCA, FBARS and the Amnesty with 27.5% penalty, how we are treated and penalized differently than other Americans. Things like that.
@Markpinetree,
Oh how I wish you were right. But the perception cards are so stacked against us that it a task of inconceivable magnitude.
Several years back one Congresman, I have forgotten his name, who had always won reelection by wide margins, took up our cause. He introduced legislation to abolish citizenship based taxation and replace it with the residence based taxation of every other country. He had no support from his congressional colleagues. It became a major issue in the next election with his opponent majoring on the fact that this Congressman was wasting his time helping American tax evaders living abroad rather than working on the issues important to his consiituents in the district he represented. He lost his re-election, going down in an flames. That bitter lesson did not go unnoticed by others where going to run for reelection. It is an issue that just does not resonate positively with he voting publlic.
I have listened carefully to the speeches and debates of the Republican presidential primaries contenders. When it comes to foreign trade and “American jobs destroyed by foreign imports,” they all sing in unison off he same song sheet: It’s all China’s fault. And they all appear that because labor is so cheap in China, there is nothing that will ever turn this around except for China to masively increase the value of its currency so the the US can be competitive in China. They don’t seem to understand that China is the 2nd largest import market in the world today and that are trade competitors are doing so well because they concentrate on the products China needs to import rather and trying to sell them the products the Chines make themselves. And each tries to outdo all the others on how tough they will be with China when they are elected president. None of them seem to have any awareness that the US is almost alone among the industrialized nations with a China trade deficit. Most of the rest of them are exporting far more per capita to China than the US, and are ether racking up trade surpluses or have balanced trade with China. Not a single one of them shows any evidence of knowing how alone the US stands in having a massive China trade deficit. I have personally written letters to several of them laying out the facts, but probably none of them have ever seen those laters; let alone read them.
By the way, the last trade statistics I saw on The Economist website showed that Canada has an almost perfect balance between its imports and exports.
@Roger
The other thing I’ll add Roger is for example in Canada there are several areas of the country with signifcantly lower rates of unemployment than in US. In Alberta for example the latest monthly unemployment rate is now 4.9% which is way way lower than anyplace in the US outside of maybe North Dakota(Unlike North Dakota, Alberta actually has two major metropolitan centres Calgary and Edmonton that make it much more desirable to live). There has always been periods of economic migration from the US to Canada it just doesn’t get noticed that much.
My understanding is there was an announcement a while back that Carolyn Maloney and Scott Garrett were introducing a bill to at least remove the cap on the foreign income exclusion. However, I have never actually seen evidence of a bill and I am not sure Maloney and Garrett are the best messengers Maloney represents the so called “silk stocking” district basically the East Side of Manhattan while Garrett represents a very well off part of the New Jersey suburbs of New York.
I’m concerned that if it becomes too well known that people abroad are renouncing in droves that all this publicity will backfire– laws could be passed that could make renouncing almost impossible. I’m almost of the opinion that people should escape quietly.
Though it’s heartbreaking to have to be even considering it, it would greatly simplify my life and save me thousands in annual costs. It’s just that I’d be frightened that to do so within my six year statute of limitations could greatly increase being harrassed by the IRS with either aggressive examinations and/or heavy fbar fines. I had numerous accounts , especially becsuse even travel cards and cell phone prepaid sims with a cash balance have to be reported on fbar (and 8938).
I’d also be worried that they might make it much harder for renunciants to visit their families in the states, just to be spiteful. Very difficult with aging parents, etc. I still love the land of my birth but fear all this fatca stuff is going to make life abroad very difficult.
(I’m subscribed to the “Taxation of foreign income” category on OpenCongress.org. It’s a good way of keeping track of what’s coming down the pipeline, but it’s also horribly depressing. Most mentions of the FEIE are for the purpose of eliminating it because the homelanders see it as a “tax expenditure” and thousands of newspapers keep repeating the government press release that you can save $70 billion by eliminating 300,000 people’s FEIE. And all the other bills are about trying to expand the definition of “Subpart F” income.)
All,
Both Maloney and Meek are members of a loose coalation in Congress that takes an intersist in and looks out for issues that are of concern to US citizens living overseas, but having said that I can assure you that these well-meaning persons also have other priorities that are higher on their lists.
I now remember the Congressman who several years ago actually worked very hard to try to eliminate this double taxation of US citizens and was defeated in his re-election bid alegedly because of his support for these “tax cheats.. It was Bill Alexander. As I recall he stayed in Washington and is a practicing attorney there.
You are totally correct that there are far more in Congress who are trying to repeal the FEIE and thus increase the taxation of citizens abroad. And in the Senate the Champion of doing away with any “special priviige” for overseas Americans is Senator Charles Grassley from Iowa. He had just been elected as a Congressman from Iowa when the Tax Reform Act of 1976 was enacted. It was that ACT that transformed taxation of Americans abroad from tolerable in the monster that overnight turned 95 out of the prior 100 years of trade surpluses into the perpetual trade deficit that it is still today, I called his office a few days back and ask how he had voted on that 1976 legislation. The person I talked to had to research it, but he called me back with the information. Congressman Grassley not only voted in favor of it, he was one of its sponsors. Since then he has been a dedicated foe of the FEIE. He was for many years while the Republicans held the majority in the Senate its chairman of the Finance Committe. A few years back, when he was still chairman, he is the Senator who introduced stacking into the TIPRA legislation which filled the revenue gap that allowed that legislation to be enacted. Stacking subjected all foreign earned income to the marginal tax rate that would have applied if there were no FEIE. In other words the tax savings now provided by the FEIE is at the lowest marginal tax rate “off the bottom” rather thanat the highest tax rate “off the top.” He introduced this provision just 10 minutes before the Senate vote was taken on that legislation. There were no hearings on it nor was their any discussion whatsoever on its effect on Americans living abroad, but since it would by the Joint Tax Committee’s calculations “fill the revenue gap” the legislation was passed. Senator Grassley, who is now Ranking Member on that Committe but not its chairman since the Democrats control the Senate, as more that once publically stated that overseas Americans serve no usefufl purpose in selling exports or anything else and should therefore “pay their full share” of taxes just like everyone else.
I have participated in meetings with ACA and AARO delegations that traveled to Washington with Grassley’s staff in past years and they were a “no sympathy” group indeed. But at least they were always up front with their views. Many others that we met with listened with apparent sympathy but as soon as the meetings ended and we stepped out of their offices their subsequent actions would seem to indicate that their sympathy for our cause was totally superficial. They did not lift a finger to do anything helpful. It is on Capitol Hill and only there where all the legislative decisions that are made that affect us. Almost daily there are marches and demonstrations in Washington in favor and opposed to a multitude of issues, but what effect how they vote on these many issues are what determines whether or not they get re-elected. And that, pure and simple, to use a metaphor, is the tail that wags the cow.
Let me add that even though renunciations of citizenship of Americans abroad is up, and it certainly is, it is still only a miniscule trickle in comparison to the multitudes of foreign citizens who are being sworn in as new naturaized US citizens. Congress with the Exit tax enacted just a few years ago did this, I am sure, primarily as a punishment rather than to generate additional tax revenues. Many more are still trying to get in than are opting out.
Hear hear! 3 million Iowa homelanders get to elect a senator who can impose taxes on 6 million expats without our having any say in the matter. And then he goes off to spend the ill-gotten gains on pork projects for his home state: http://spectator.org/archives/2008/06/10/chuck-grassley-king-of-pork
Brings to mind the old quote about two wolves and a sheep voting on what to eat for supper.
@Roger Conklin
The numbers of renunciants vs naturalisations is most certainly a one-way affair, but the US should still be concerned since most of the renunciants, I would venture, tend to be highly educated (university degree at least probably), highly skilled and generally well off financially. In contrast, most of the immigrants to the US probably do not have a university degree, are less skilled and will probably make less taxable income over their lifetime than the renunciants do. Somebody posted this excellent article a few days back which highlights this fact:
By imposing FATCA, FBARs and the lot, the US is alienating many into renouncing citizenship who may very well have brought their money made overseas back into the US when they retire or for any other reason, but are now being driven to cut all financial ties forever.
@Roger. Your comment that the “perception cards are stacked against us” is no doubt true.
However, if we were to look upon this situation in purely PR terms and break down our target audiences, in marketing lingo, we have two: 6-million plus overseas Americans, on one hand, Congress and the American public, on the other.
Imagine the power of an organized and highly focused overseas American voting machine, which could, if effectively organized, deliver large numbers of votes around core issues or for certain candidates. That, of course, would require enormous effort and organizational capacity, beyond any that I’m familiar with. But perhaps something to consider. Indeed, Rome, as they say, was not build in a day!
On the US domestic front, it seems a concerted PR effort to publicize the plight of law-abiding American citizens caught up in this Kafkaesque nightmare. Some iconic story might catch the public’s imagination, under the theme that would illustrate the grotesque unfairness of the situation. We Americans love nothing more than a good story, and it seems those of us living overseas have plenty to tell.
My limited knowledge tells me that ACA and other organizations are deeply involved in lobbying efforts, and by no means do I mean to belittle those important efforts. What I’m talking about is a comprehensive PR effort involving an intensive media campaign backed up by a massive membership drive.
I’ll admit–under present circumstances, this is pretty much pie-in-the-sky.
MASS RENUNCIATIONS of Americans abroad is the only way to get the attention of US public opinion – look at the attention only 1,000 renunciants during the first half of 2011 is getting. I suspect that the real numbers are actually much higher than what is actually being acknowledged.
MASS RENUNCIATIONS will resonate globally as well. It will shatter the myth of the “American Dream.” Neil Diamond will have to change the words of his song to – “we’re running from Amerika, today!”
I can not help but weep when I watch it. The COGNITIVE DISSONANCE I feel is almost unbearable.
Even with the “Berlin Wall” Exit Tax, they will not be able to stop Americans abroad from declaring their FREEDOM through renunciation or by just plain going further underground. It’s not so easy to stop “runaway slaves.”
The British tried to stop the American colonists, but failed. The TYRANTS IN CONGRESS like Grassely, Rangel and Leviathan will fail as well.
Article 15 of “The Universal Declaration of Human Rights” signed by the US clearly states:
“No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.”
RENOUNCING citizenship is a serious act and therefore makes a powerful statement. Unfortunately, it is the only real weapon Americans abroad have against the TYRANNY that is reigning down upon them.
Granted, RENOUNCING CITIZENSHIP is a heavy sacrifice to make. But hopefully it will change things for the better so others will not have to live through the same hell in the future.
I’m glad this is appearing the mainstream media. But one problem:::: I didn’t make “any” money in America!
I still don’t think they get it, I didn’t make ANY MONEY in America either..
It’s funny that you can be a foreigner like me (originally from India, now a Canadian citizen) and do most of your business in the US and not get taxed on it. I run an internet company incorporated in Canada and almost all my customers are American. I don’t file anything with the IRS because legally I don’t have to.
But if you happen to have been born in the US or have an American parent and don’t earn income from there they still want to tax you. It’s like a penalty for having any American association. On top of that no foreigners will want to form a partnership with you due to FATCA.
Actually, thanks to the OP for posting this, but I think they just play into the “myth” that we all got rich in America and just live on a beach. Commmmmmon!
Notice how the woman was actually making sense and the host cut her off to make his own point?
@zucchero81, I noticed that too, he just cut her off, I wanted to hear what she had to say..How Rude he was!!
omghe’sstillanamerican: you’re right. The only way is to renounce and cut all affiliations to the USA. It’s really quite ridiculous: I’m causasian with blue/green eyes and I speak every foreign language with an accent (hopefully not as bad as “typical” resident Americans 🙂 – People will always consider me to be American because I was born there. The US created these illogical rules of theirs leaving us with very few options. That’s the US’s problem, as far as I’m concerned.
I don’t know what line of work you are in, but be careful. If you look at the latest FOX videos, they mention that US law is so vague that they can indite just about anyone. You, having US customers, are especiallly at risk. Be careful.
And I watched several “recent” videos. Now I’m utterly terrified to step foot in America. If I were Petros, I wouldn’t even go near the border 🙂
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/01/us-citizenship_renunciations_soar_under_obama.html
It seems to me that the renunciation of U.S. citizenship is necessary as an act of self defense.
And here is yet another:
http://meritasadvisors.com/2012/01/tax_code/
Thanks for the concern geeeez. I just wanted to point out the insanity of their system … but now I’m going to zip it …
Andrew Napolitano (host of Freedom Watch) is a very good man and true champion of liberty.
However, he, like almost all other Americans living stateside, does not understand what Americans abroad are facing: taxation without representation and without any benefits in return from the government that demands the taxes, which amounts to outright extortion.
I have watched Napolitano’s show for several years now and am convinced that he personally would sympathize with the American Diaspora if he was actually able to understand what they are facing.
The problem however, is that most Americans stateside could care less about the Diaspora. In fact, most stateside Americans perceive Americans abroad with suspicion — like they are committing heresy against the “American dream.”
Stateside Americans also falsely believe that Americans abroad had made their money in the states, then took it overseas. They have no idea that the “land of opportunity” is well on the way of becoming a myth and there are more opportunities for “pioneers” willing to try to stake their claims elsewhere, particularly in the emerging or frontier markets.
Spartacus
“There is no crueler tyranny than that which is perpetuated under the shield of law and in the name of justice.”
– Charles de Montesquieu
Thanks for the link…I was terrified to click on it because I hadn’t been exposed to “Fox News” for over ten years. I was shocked that this wasn’t some sort of “Expat Roast”, but that they actually seemed to have a very minimal shred of empathy.
The comment about making money in the US is obviously not relevant to everyone but great for drumming up catchy one liners, and the host cutting off one of the guests was a bit rude, but otherwise you can’t really expect much out of a 4 minute news segment in terms of details on FATCA, FBAR or the lot.
I was expecting to cringe for all four minutes but that was actually somewhat watchable for me. At least whatever number of people who watch this show now know that US citizens overseas exist and that they are renouncing citizenship. That is a good first step to be primed for all of the (hopefully negative) coverage to hit the US airwaves this year once more people start divesting themselves of US securities.
I am not fond of Fox News…but I was glad they made this visible. We need to educate the media and the public about what we are revolting against. It is not against paying taxes if they are due. It is against considering us criminals without due judgement and against imposing on us much stiffier penalties they impose on the other Americans. I never invested one cent of money l earned in the USA in the country I am living now yet I am considered as someone who does and hides. Lets work to clarify the issues!
When I bring this up to my friends and neighbors they are surprised to learn that US citizens living abroad they understand they are of course subject to the taxes of the country where they live. But universally they are surprised that US citizens abroad are also subject to the same US tax laws as those who live and work within the US.
Most of them wonder why would any American want to live abroad? After all, this is the country that attracts millions from around the world. When they hear statements like those made by Congressman Rangle, they tend to just accept them at face value.
Explaining this “why” ususally makes sense to them, and why it is unreasonable and nonsensical to double tax citizens abroad as well. But this takes time and there 330 million living in US and would take a very long time to expain these things to one person at at time. Not an easy task.
Don´t you think that maybe Americans Living Abroad could start going public? Perhaps with ACA? I would contribute to this (within my limitations). Perhaps an advertise in a national newspaper or magazine trying to clarify the issues. It is not easy. But we have to start somewhere. You know, things like of course we are in favor of the IRS going after Americans who are investing US money in Foreign Accounts and hiding it. Then try to clarify the differences between American Living Abroad and them. Clarifying that the USA is the only Country that taxes its citizens who live and work in another Country Even though we find this strange we are ready to comply with the law. Then clarify about FATCA, FBARS and the Amnesty with 27.5% penalty, how we are treated and penalized differently than other Americans. Things like that.
@Markpinetree,
Oh how I wish you were right. But the perception cards are so stacked against us that it a task of inconceivable magnitude.
Several years back one Congresman, I have forgotten his name, who had always won reelection by wide margins, took up our cause. He introduced legislation to abolish citizenship based taxation and replace it with the residence based taxation of every other country. He had no support from his congressional colleagues. It became a major issue in the next election with his opponent majoring on the fact that this Congressman was wasting his time helping American tax evaders living abroad rather than working on the issues important to his consiituents in the district he represented. He lost his re-election, going down in an flames. That bitter lesson did not go unnoticed by others where going to run for reelection. It is an issue that just does not resonate positively with he voting publlic.
I have listened carefully to the speeches and debates of the Republican presidential primaries contenders. When it comes to foreign trade and “American jobs destroyed by foreign imports,” they all sing in unison off he same song sheet: It’s all China’s fault. And they all appear that because labor is so cheap in China, there is nothing that will ever turn this around except for China to masively increase the value of its currency so the the US can be competitive in China. They don’t seem to understand that China is the 2nd largest import market in the world today and that are trade competitors are doing so well because they concentrate on the products China needs to import rather and trying to sell them the products the Chines make themselves. And each tries to outdo all the others on how tough they will be with China when they are elected president. None of them seem to have any awareness that the US is almost alone among the industrialized nations with a China trade deficit. Most of the rest of them are exporting far more per capita to China than the US, and are ether racking up trade surpluses or have balanced trade with China. Not a single one of them shows any evidence of knowing how alone the US stands in having a massive China trade deficit. I have personally written letters to several of them laying out the facts, but probably none of them have ever seen those laters; let alone read them.
By the way, the last trade statistics I saw on The Economist website showed that Canada has an almost perfect balance between its imports and exports.
@Roger
The other thing I’ll add Roger is for example in Canada there are several areas of the country with signifcantly lower rates of unemployment than in US. In Alberta for example the latest monthly unemployment rate is now 4.9% which is way way lower than anyplace in the US outside of maybe North Dakota(Unlike North Dakota, Alberta actually has two major metropolitan centres Calgary and Edmonton that make it much more desirable to live). There has always been periods of economic migration from the US to Canada it just doesn’t get noticed that much.
My understanding is there was an announcement a while back that Carolyn Maloney and Scott Garrett were introducing a bill to at least remove the cap on the foreign income exclusion. However, I have never actually seen evidence of a bill and I am not sure Maloney and Garrett are the best messengers Maloney represents the so called “silk stocking” district basically the East Side of Manhattan while Garrett represents a very well off part of the New Jersey suburbs of New York.
I’m concerned that if it becomes too well known that people abroad are renouncing in droves that all this publicity will backfire– laws could be passed that could make renouncing almost impossible. I’m almost of the opinion that people should escape quietly.
Though it’s heartbreaking to have to be even considering it, it would greatly simplify my life and save me thousands in annual costs. It’s just that I’d be frightened that to do so within my six year statute of limitations could greatly increase being harrassed by the IRS with either aggressive examinations and/or heavy fbar fines. I had numerous accounts , especially becsuse even travel cards and cell phone prepaid sims with a cash balance have to be reported on fbar (and 8938).
I’d also be worried that they might make it much harder for renunciants to visit their families in the states, just to be spiteful. Very difficult with aging parents, etc. I still love the land of my birth but fear all this fatca stuff is going to make life abroad very difficult.
@Tim sadly, the last bill I saw proposing an unlimited FEIE was in 2009. Gregory Meeks D(NY) has introduced two house bills about this. In both cases they died in committee.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-h4752/text
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1798/text
(I’m subscribed to the “Taxation of foreign income” category on OpenCongress.org. It’s a good way of keeping track of what’s coming down the pipeline, but it’s also horribly depressing. Most mentions of the FEIE are for the purpose of eliminating it because the homelanders see it as a “tax expenditure” and thousands of newspapers keep repeating the government press release that you can save $70 billion by eliminating 300,000 people’s FEIE. And all the other bills are about trying to expand the definition of “Subpart F” income.)
All,
Both Maloney and Meek are members of a loose coalation in Congress that takes an intersist in and looks out for issues that are of concern to US citizens living overseas, but having said that I can assure you that these well-meaning persons also have other priorities that are higher on their lists.
I now remember the Congressman who several years ago actually worked very hard to try to eliminate this double taxation of US citizens and was defeated in his re-election bid alegedly because of his support for these “tax cheats.. It was Bill Alexander. As I recall he stayed in Washington and is a practicing attorney there.
You are totally correct that there are far more in Congress who are trying to repeal the FEIE and thus increase the taxation of citizens abroad. And in the Senate the Champion of doing away with any “special priviige” for overseas Americans is Senator Charles Grassley from Iowa. He had just been elected as a Congressman from Iowa when the Tax Reform Act of 1976 was enacted. It was that ACT that transformed taxation of Americans abroad from tolerable in the monster that overnight turned 95 out of the prior 100 years of trade surpluses into the perpetual trade deficit that it is still today, I called his office a few days back and ask how he had voted on that 1976 legislation. The person I talked to had to research it, but he called me back with the information. Congressman Grassley not only voted in favor of it, he was one of its sponsors. Since then he has been a dedicated foe of the FEIE. He was for many years while the Republicans held the majority in the Senate its chairman of the Finance Committe. A few years back, when he was still chairman, he is the Senator who introduced stacking into the TIPRA legislation which filled the revenue gap that allowed that legislation to be enacted. Stacking subjected all foreign earned income to the marginal tax rate that would have applied if there were no FEIE. In other words the tax savings now provided by the FEIE is at the lowest marginal tax rate “off the bottom” rather thanat the highest tax rate “off the top.” He introduced this provision just 10 minutes before the Senate vote was taken on that legislation. There were no hearings on it nor was their any discussion whatsoever on its effect on Americans living abroad, but since it would by the Joint Tax Committee’s calculations “fill the revenue gap” the legislation was passed. Senator Grassley, who is now Ranking Member on that Committe but not its chairman since the Democrats control the Senate, as more that once publically stated that overseas Americans serve no usefufl purpose in selling exports or anything else and should therefore “pay their full share” of taxes just like everyone else.
I have participated in meetings with ACA and AARO delegations that traveled to Washington with Grassley’s staff in past years and they were a “no sympathy” group indeed. But at least they were always up front with their views. Many others that we met with listened with apparent sympathy but as soon as the meetings ended and we stepped out of their offices their subsequent actions would seem to indicate that their sympathy for our cause was totally superficial. They did not lift a finger to do anything helpful. It is on Capitol Hill and only there where all the legislative decisions that are made that affect us. Almost daily there are marches and demonstrations in Washington in favor and opposed to a multitude of issues, but what effect how they vote on these many issues are what determines whether or not they get re-elected. And that, pure and simple, to use a metaphor, is the tail that wags the cow.
Let me add that even though renunciations of citizenship of Americans abroad is up, and it certainly is, it is still only a miniscule trickle in comparison to the multitudes of foreign citizens who are being sworn in as new naturaized US citizens. Congress with the Exit tax enacted just a few years ago did this, I am sure, primarily as a punishment rather than to generate additional tax revenues. Many more are still trying to get in than are opting out.
Hear hear! 3 million Iowa homelanders get to elect a senator who can impose taxes on 6 million expats without our having any say in the matter. And then he goes off to spend the ill-gotten gains on pork projects for his home state:
http://spectator.org/archives/2008/06/10/chuck-grassley-king-of-pork
Brings to mind the old quote about two wolves and a sheep voting on what to eat for supper.
@Roger Conklin
The numbers of renunciants vs naturalisations is most certainly a one-way affair, but the US should still be concerned since most of the renunciants, I would venture, tend to be highly educated (university degree at least probably), highly skilled and generally well off financially. In contrast, most of the immigrants to the US probably do not have a university degree, are less skilled and will probably make less taxable income over their lifetime than the renunciants do. Somebody posted this excellent article a few days back which highlights this fact:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/127604/Young-Less-Educated-Yearn-Migrate.aspx
By imposing FATCA, FBARs and the lot, the US is alienating many into renouncing citizenship who may very well have brought their money made overseas back into the US when they retire or for any other reason, but are now being driven to cut all financial ties forever.
@Roger. Your comment that the “perception cards are stacked against us” is no doubt true.
However, if we were to look upon this situation in purely PR terms and break down our target audiences, in marketing lingo, we have two: 6-million plus overseas Americans, on one hand, Congress and the American public, on the other.
Imagine the power of an organized and highly focused overseas American voting machine, which could, if effectively organized, deliver large numbers of votes around core issues or for certain candidates. That, of course, would require enormous effort and organizational capacity, beyond any that I’m familiar with. But perhaps something to consider. Indeed, Rome, as they say, was not build in a day!
On the US domestic front, it seems a concerted PR effort to publicize the plight of law-abiding American citizens caught up in this Kafkaesque nightmare. Some iconic story might catch the public’s imagination, under the theme that would illustrate the grotesque unfairness of the situation. We Americans love nothing more than a good story, and it seems those of us living overseas have plenty to tell.
My limited knowledge tells me that ACA and other organizations are deeply involved in lobbying efforts, and by no means do I mean to belittle those important efforts. What I’m talking about is a comprehensive PR effort involving an intensive media campaign backed up by a massive membership drive.
I’ll admit–under present circumstances, this is pretty much pie-in-the-sky.
MASS RENUNCIATIONS of Americans abroad is the only way to get the attention of US public opinion – look at the attention only 1,000 renunciants during the first half of 2011 is getting. I suspect that the real numbers are actually much higher than what is actually being acknowledged.
MASS RENUNCIATIONS will resonate globally as well. It will shatter the myth of the “American Dream.” Neil Diamond will have to change the words of his song to – “we’re running from Amerika, today!”
I can not help but weep when I watch it. The COGNITIVE DISSONANCE I feel is almost unbearable.
Even with the “Berlin Wall” Exit Tax, they will not be able to stop Americans abroad from declaring their FREEDOM through renunciation or by just plain going further underground. It’s not so easy to stop “runaway slaves.”
The British tried to stop the American colonists, but failed. The TYRANTS IN CONGRESS like Grassely, Rangel and Leviathan will fail as well.
Article 15 of “The Universal Declaration of Human Rights” signed by the US clearly states:
“No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.”
RENOUNCING citizenship is a serious act and therefore makes a powerful statement. Unfortunately, it is the only real weapon Americans abroad have against the TYRANNY that is reigning down upon them.
Granted, RENOUNCING CITIZENSHIP is a heavy sacrifice to make. But hopefully it will change things for the better so others will not have to live through the same hell in the future.