86 thoughts on “Fox News Video: Increasing numbers of U.S. citizens renouncing”
@Rick, that is correct and green card holders who have lived in the US for I think it is 8 out of 14 years are subject to the same exit tax if they cancel their green cards to leave permanently as US citizens when they renounce their citizenship. I think there may be some relief based on the value of foreign assets when they became US residents as compared to their original acqisition value. If they leave without formerly canceling their green cards then their world wide income continues to be subject to US tax just as if they had not left. It is clearly a tax trap which foreign citizens who have assets when they come to the US to live and work would be well-advised to be aware of before they come to live and work.
I also wanted to post a US GAO report done on expatriation done back in 2000. Basically at that time only 42% of people filled out the 8854, no one had been denied entry into the US, and the IRS admited in countries where they had tax collection agreements such as Canada they would be of no use in collecting the expatriation tax or form 8854 filing penalties from citizens of the those countries. It would appear Victoria will be in better shape when she actually becomes a French citizen.
I have two married daughters and one son in the USA. I lived in the USA 30 years.
Indeed these renunciations are what have been calling the attention of the media.
I agree with you that these two goals perhaps are indeed the most important: representation (Ibelieve the Germans have it) and the end of this citizenship based taxation. But we have a long PR job of showing the US public that we are not the Americans que live and work in the USA and who hide investments ofshore. For them FATCA makes sense. Not for us.
@Petros, Spartacus, Rick & All
Who knows indeed what ten years might bring – If the world’s economic situation really degenerates into 1930s levels war could very likely happen…
I would be more concerned in the short time that the treaties on extradition and tax could change. You are both currently protected, but who is to say that the US couldn’t try to modify the treaties to gain access. I have to agree with Rick and say that caution is probably the best course of action when we are facing an unknown future.
Has anybody ever started a petiton at whitehouse.gov concerning our problems?
Or maybe even start a petition with proposals like those stated in the PDF file that Tim mentioned on another by C. Blum and P. Singer
@DomPomodoro,
Had not heard of this petition procedure before, but looking at the petitions filed it looks to me like a way to let off steam about gripes but it appears that the potential for action resulting from these petitions is about zero. I suspect that there are a few milion overseas Americans who would never sign their names to a petiton on taxes for the same reason that they do not register their names with US Embassies in the foreign countries where they live because it could lead to their discovery by the IRS.
Optimism is eternal, as some would say.
But I am reminded of what someone else said many years ago;
“They told me to cheer up, because things could be worse. So I cheered up and sure enough they got worse.”
I think ACA and AARO should place this ad in a national newspaper:
“Americans Living Abroad
It is estimated that there are around 5 million Americans Living and Working Abroad. They are not Tax Cheaters.
They earn their money from their work in the foreign country and pay Income Taxes to to their country of residence and to the United States. They also represent the United States abroad. They are not the same as the Americans Living and Working in the USA who are hiding in foreign banks. Yet they are being treated in the same way.To learn more about this, contact ACA at http://www.aca.ch or http://www.aaro.com“
@Rick, that is correct and green card holders who have lived in the US for I think it is 8 out of 14 years are subject to the same exit tax if they cancel their green cards to leave permanently as US citizens when they renounce their citizenship. I think there may be some relief based on the value of foreign assets when they became US residents as compared to their original acqisition value. If they leave without formerly canceling their green cards then their world wide income continues to be subject to US tax just as if they had not left. It is clearly a tax trap which foreign citizens who have assets when they come to the US to live and work would be well-advised to be aware of before they come to live and work.
I also wanted to post a US GAO report done on expatriation done back in 2000. Basically at that time only 42% of people filled out the 8854, no one had been denied entry into the US, and the IRS admited in countries where they had tax collection agreements such as Canada they would be of no use in collecting the expatriation tax or form 8854 filing penalties from citizens of the those countries. It would appear Victoria will be in better shape when she actually becomes a French citizen.
http://www.gao.gov/assets/100/90271.pdf
Will love to see his answer.
I have two married daughters and one son in the USA. I lived in the USA 30 years.
Indeed these renunciations are what have been calling the attention of the media.
I agree with you that these two goals perhaps are indeed the most important: representation (Ibelieve the Germans have it) and the end of this citizenship based taxation. But we have a long PR job of showing the US public that we are not the Americans que live and work in the USA and who hide investments ofshore. For them FATCA makes sense. Not for us.
@Petros, Spartacus, Rick & All
Who knows indeed what ten years might bring – If the world’s economic situation really degenerates into 1930s levels war could very likely happen…
I would be more concerned in the short time that the treaties on extradition and tax could change. You are both currently protected, but who is to say that the US couldn’t try to modify the treaties to gain access. I have to agree with Rick and say that caution is probably the best course of action when we are facing an unknown future.
Has anybody ever started a petiton at whitehouse.gov concerning our problems?
Or maybe even start a petition with proposals like those stated in the PDF file that Tim mentioned on another by C. Blum and P. Singer
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petitions
@DomPomodoro,
Had not heard of this petition procedure before, but looking at the petitions filed it looks to me like a way to let off steam about gripes but it appears that the potential for action resulting from these petitions is about zero. I suspect that there are a few milion overseas Americans who would never sign their names to a petiton on taxes for the same reason that they do not register their names with US Embassies in the foreign countries where they live because it could lead to their discovery by the IRS.
Optimism is eternal, as some would say.
But I am reminded of what someone else said many years ago;
“They told me to cheer up, because things could be worse. So I cheered up and sure enough they got worse.”
I think ACA and AARO should place this ad in a national newspaper:
“Americans Living Abroad
It is estimated that there are around 5 million Americans Living and Working Abroad. They are not Tax Cheaters.
They earn their money from their work in the foreign country and pay Income Taxes to to their country of residence and to the United States. They also represent the United States abroad. They are not the same as the Americans Living and Working in the USA who are hiding in foreign banks. Yet they are being treated in the same way.To learn more about this, contact ACA at http://www.aca.ch or http://www.aaro.com“