Check this out. U.S. citizens living in Canada are required to disclose their RRSPs on an FBAR. I assume that a U.S. citizen living in the United States would have to file an FBAR disclosing any “offshore IRA”. This is a rather interesting article. Assuming you believe that Mr. Romney should disclose his tax returns, shouldn’t he have an obligation to disclose any FBARs?
Does Mitt Romney have to file an #FBAR? If so, has he? blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/…
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) January 19, 2012
Excellent question. My understanding is that he has millions in offshore accounts.
As a US citizen, my answer is absolutely yes, he should release them if he has offshore accounts for which he is required by US law to submit FBAR Form TD F 90.22.1. If he has such accounts and has not filed this report, he needs to come clean. But let’s not judge him until we know the facts.
@Roger Conklin
First of all this discussion assumes that as a matter of law that Mr. Romney is obligated to file an FBAR. This whole discussion assumes that truth of the above article. But, assuming that Mr.Romney has “foreign financial accounts”:
____________________________________
Not judging him at all. He has every right to invest his money as he sees fit. It just seems to me that if the information on an FBAR is so important that people can go to jail for not filing it, then the American people should have access to this important information.
Presumably an FBAR exists because it contains information ABOUT THE PERSON that is vital to the interests of the United States. (The American people are obsessed with the sex lives, marital status and other personal habits of its candidates. But, this “foreign financial account” stuff could be a matter of national security.)
If the American people have an interest in Mr. Romney’s tax returns, then they should have a greater interest in the question of “foreign” financial accounts that are covered by the FBAR.
This is very very important stuff. The link between FBAR and the Patriot Act makes this very clear. For all we know, Mr. Romney could have “foreign accounts” all over the world. Who knows what they might be for?
I ask you this question:
If a U.S. citizen who lives outside the U.S. is suspect because he has a foreign bank account (even if used for day-to-day activities) what about Mr. Romney? This man resides in the United States of America. He is a loyal (or at least seems to be) patriotic American. He speaks of “amber waves of grain”. What possible reason could this man have for having a “foreign financial account”?
Perhaps Doug Shulman should get personally involved.
Even if Mr. Romney has filed his FBAR (and you can bet that his high priced lawyers have made sure that he has) the American people have a right to know what is on that FBAR!!
Furthermore, somebody should get in touch with John King at CNN and rest of the “Media elite”.
But after said all of this, I still think (whether or not Mr. Romney is “FBAR compliant) that Mitt Romney is the best candidate for president!
So, vote Mitt Romney:
http://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/2011/11/11/open-letter-to-mitt-romney/
Question: Would you vote for a man who had not filed an FBAR?
I think there has been some false information floating around the internet. Look at Daniel Mitchell’s blog where he debunks this.
It doesn’t matter if he has legally disclosed everything on an FBAR or even if he is paying the same rate in the Cayman Islands. I think that this will look absolutely terrible to the average voter because they will wonder why he has invested his money there in the first place…
On the other hand, does anyone know if Romney has said anything positive to the effect of getting rid of FATCA, the FBARs or switching to a residential taxation system? If he also has foreign accounts then at least he is aware of this legislation existing, unlike, say the majority of the politicians who passed it..
I have always stated this fact.
Of all the Politicians in the United States, there has to be at the very least a percentage that have offshore accounts in tax havens…..never claimed the dividends or interest….and never filed an FBAR.
I think the US should look in their own backyard first and foremost!
I would bet that the average American voter does not have a clue what FATCA is, or for that matter what an FBAR is.
Wow, Renounce, my grandmother always said “Great minds think alike.” I was just planning to post this when I saw your post.
According to this article (http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1114630–does-mitt-romney-s-long-love-affair-with-canada-still-have-heat) in Toronto Star. Mitt Romney’s family are “summer Canadians (his own father’s term). In fact, Romney has said he never spent a Fourth of July in the US until he was 15–surely some Americans consider that on a par with treason!
Romney and his siblings inherited the family summer home near Grand Bend Ontario from their father. According to The Star, they still maintain it and use it. I wonder if that has been reported to IRS. Surely, that qualifies him as a “US person” outside US.
Then, this article was in Globe and Mail: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/romney-acknowledges-he-pays-lower-tax-ra1te-than-many-americans/article2306169/ e acknowledges he pays only 15% tax because most of his income is from investments.
Today’s Christian Science Monitor tries to explain it. http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2012/0119/Unlocking-the-mystery-of-Romney-s-15-percent-tax-rate.-Yes-it-s-legal I still don’t get it.
Then, information you posted reports some of Romney’s funds are in Cayman Islands. This absolutely requires FBAR as those funds may be taxed differently, or at the very least, be subject to penalties for non-reporting if he has not filed FBAR.
Yesterday, I was thinking this could perhaps be the first missile we could fire in our IBS war. When I think about it further, I think most Americans would be so outraged that Romney only pays 15% when he is worth $250 million that it could backfire on us because they would–quite naturally—think this is definitely tax cheating and lump us all together.
@DonPomodoro
Personally I think that if he can get a better return outside the U.S. this is what he should do. What the Carl Levins of the world call “tax havens” are really just countries that have lower tax rates than the U.S. There is nothing wrong with that and there is everything right with that.
When Levin and Obama complain about tax havens they are really complaining about what they see as “unfair competition”. The U.S. corporate tax rates are among the highest (if not the highest) in the world. The time has come for the U.S. to compete.
If I were Romney I would be prepared to simply make the case that:
– U.S. tax rates make it unwise to invest in the U.S.
– citizenship-based taxation harms the U.S. economy and erodes U.S. capital
– that FATCA will mean the end of the U.S. dollar as the world’s reserve currency
Check out his great video by Daniel Mitchell where he argues that “tax havens are good”:
http://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/tax-havens-and-the-public-good/
To be honest, the only thing that I care about in US politics is them getting rid of FATCA, FBARs and switching to a residential taxation system, such that if a “US person” lives abroad and has no assets in the US then they should have absolutely no contact with the US government except when renewing a passport.
To this end, I actually hope that the most hardline libertarian “I want to close every government agency possible type” gets elected. You know the ones: the ones who will get rid of the IRS altogether and drop the income tax, capital gains, the lot. There is actually a bill that has been floating around for ages that would basically do this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax
This is so self-centered though and I would never vote for one of these people if I had to actually live in the country where these policies would come into place…
@blaze
Thanks so much – I also saw the article in the Toronto Star. But, what I missed and your comment just made me realize is this:
This Mitt Romney guy – I bet you anything that he has a “bank account” in Canada. Just like other U.S. citizens in Canada. I repeat this guy has a bank account in Canada. He must be a criminal.
Now, what I think is that we better get Newt on the phone. There is a debate tonight in South Carolina. Newt can practice this question in front of the mirror:
“Mr. Romney, do you or have you ever had a bank account in Canada????”
Well, all I can say is this:
If he does (and I believe he does) then it better be on an FBAR!!!!!!!!!
Don’t you think?
@renounceuscitizenship
I agree with you entirely and if I were Romney I would do the same. I meant only that once this really gets out that it really damage his already “I’m richer than thou” persona, which is unfortunate because he would seem like someone with an actual personal stake in getting rid of all this stupid legislation.
@renounceuscitizenship:
– U.S. tax rates make it unwise to invest in the U.S.
**** agreed.
– citizenship-based taxation harms the U.S. economy and erodes U.S. capital
**** agreed.
– that FATCA will mean the end of the U.S. dollar as the world’s reserve currency
**** I do not agree. The US blows up any country that tries to switch to anything else. Iran transacts in Euros, and look at how many aircraft carriers are right outside their door!
@geeeez
You think so so you? The U.S. is deep in debt. Read how the U.S. debt to China is financing China’s military build up. China has expressed to a desire that their currency be the reserve currency. Read the following and then if you want to read more go here:
http://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/renounce-us-citizenship/
““Those who spend too much will eventually be owned by those who are thrifty.”
China has a very high savings rate. China also owns a mind boggling amount of U.S. debt. China wants it currency to become the reserve currency of the world. China has stated that it will NOT comply with FATCA. The United States government pays massive interest payment to China each year. As Mark Steyn has pointed out – these interest payments provide China with the money to build and build and build (this means increase) its military. Does that sound pleasant?
“By 2010, about half our debt was owned by foreigners, and somewhere over a quarter of that was held by the Chinese (officially).
What does that mean? In 2010, the U.S. spent about $663 billion on its military, China about $78 billion. If the People’s Republic carries on buying American debt at the rate it has in recent times, then within a few years U.S. interest payments on that debt will be covering the entire cost of the Chinese armed forces. In 2010, the Pentagon issued an alarming report to Congress on Beijing’s massive military buildup, including new missiles, upgraded bombers, and an aircraft carrier research and development program intended to challenge U.S. dominance in the Pacific. What the report didn’t mention is who’s paying for it.
Answer: Mr. and Mrs. America.”
“- that FATCA will mean the end of the U.S. dollar as the world’s reserve currency
**** I do not agree. The US blows up any country that tries to switch to anything else. Iran transacts in Euros, and look at how many aircraft carriers are right outside their door!”
I think that I’ll have to disagree with you both on this point. I don’t think that there will really be a single “reserve” currency in a couple of years’ time. Yes, the Euro is in chaos, but the dollar has been losing value for ages and has other problems facing it. The Swiss France has been pegged to the Euro and the Pound is facing unknown territory with all of the austerity cuts in the UK. I think what we will see, and which is already reflected in what some countries like China are already doing, is that countries will try to diversify as much as possible in order to not be overly reliant on dollars or euros and as they are currently.
Assuming Mr. Romney is required to file the FBAR, can you imagine the joy of the IRS if he has not filed his FBAR?
The only FBAR of any value is the FBAR that has not been filed.
Here is why:
http://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/2011/12/17/the-true-value-and-purpose-of-an-fbar/
@renounceusicitizenship
You know, after looking at your link I have this image in my head of the IRS being personified by Tony Soprano and the FBAR as being my required “protection money”. If you pay, great. If not…
One rumor I have heard is when Harper(the Canadian PM) travels to China next month China is going to offer Canada a RMB swapline something they have in the past done for mainly developing non-aligned countries to rub salt in the would of the US over Keystone. In this regard Harper is really chumming up to the Chinese after Keystone and doing things like not returning the Dalai Lama’s phone calls.
@Renounce: Romney would probably amend Clinton’s Line: “It depends on what the meaning of the word do is.”
I didn’t think of the account issue. Romney may very well have accounts here. The article says he and his family maintain and use their property here. On the other hand, as Flaherty says, “Canada is not a tax haven. People do not flock here to avoid paying taxes,” and Romney seems very skilled at avoiding taxes, so maybe not. It’s disgusting, that RESPs (educational savings plans) of Canadian children of parents born in US could could be subject to a 50% penalty for not reporting, but Romney can have $250 million and only pay 15%.
China has bought a multi-billion dollar stake in the Canada’s oilsands and unconventional oil. I recently received tender for shares in Daylight Energy–all Chinese money. They paid more than double the market price for the shares. But the company was worth much more. They are shrewd investors.
You can already buy and sell physical yuan/RMB currency and open RMB accounts at the Chinese state owned Bank of China (Canada). One possibility I have heard mentioned is in the Bank of China (Canada) could setup a Canadian domestic RMB clearing system for all Canadian financial institution giving an alternative to the US Dollar.
http://www.boc.cn/cn/html/canada/en_s1.html
Speaking of fellow US persons abroad who own property or conduct ‘foreign’ banking and business ‘offshore’ here in Canada:
I’ve been wondering for a while if Ambassador Jacobson – (who glibly and perhaps disingenuously “..says his government isn’t out to get honest “grandmas” who don’t owe anything to the Internal Revenue Service…” http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/ottawa-seeks-leniency-for-canadians-in-us-tax-hunt/article2205001/) and his wife and daughter Wynne have declared the income, bank accounts and investments they hold in Canada. Presumably they don’t do all their banking in Kansas…. The ambassador’s daughter has a jewelry business in Ottawa, with a Canadian partner (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Wynne+Jacobson+that+glitters/5837264/story.html?cid=megadrop_story) and presumably needs some type of local banking to handle it’s assets. I’m assuming that would require FBAR reporting and FATCA compliance…..Their son was also attending school in Canada – and probably can’t get to Kansas regularly to do his banking either.
Perhaps, in solidarity with US citizens and grandmas here in Canada, the Jacobsons would agree to a CBC interview where they share their own experiences preparing their US tax returns, FBARs, and preparations for FATCA – with an estimate of how long that reporting took, and/or how much they paid a professional to do it for them.
Speaking of Romney and other illustrious Americans with property or assets in Canada:
I would like some show of support and fellow feeling from Ambassador Jacobson – since he had said that the IRS is not out to get grannies in Canada..http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/ottawa-seeks-leniency-for-canadians-in-us-tax-hunt/article2205001/. His daughter has a business in Canada – in partnership with a Canadian, http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Wynne+Jacobson+that+glitters/5837264/story.html?cid=megadrop_story and so would need to have ‘foreign’ accounts ‘offshore’ in Ottawa or environs to operate. It would be very unwieldy to bank in say – Kansas! That would require FBARs, and FATCA compliance… The ambassador’s son was going to school here as well – so I doubt that they all hold their daily, household and business accounts in Kansas. Perhaps if they all shared how they managed compliance in the years since they’ve been here: ex. how much time it took per person, per account, and/or how much it cost to get an experienced tax preparer to do it for them – it would be very inspiring to all their fellow US ‘persons’/citizens ‘abroad’ – like me.
@badger I’m sorry that our spam filter caught your both comments. I’m having to save the wheat from amongst chaff. Do you want me to delete one of these comments? I’ll let you decide.
Thanks Petros; perhaps the briefer the better – can you delete the first post? Thanks,
Badger