This is almost becoming a joke. I doubt the US taxpayer is even aware of this. Today the site owner of Megaupload.com was arrested in New Zealand and will be extradited to America. The charges: facilitating copyright violations.
I don’t know about you guys, but I have used this site regularly, mainly for small files. Most of the stuff that I download was freeware programs like a portable version of Google Chromium, or PDF versions of papers about taxation. They want you to pay so badly that they almost discourage downloading large files. There’s an interesting comment in one of the links how Universal Music was sending fake copywright infringment notices.
http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-feds-shut-down-file-sharing-website-193903205.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Schmitz
So now basically anywhere you go, anything you do that is contrary to US law or opinion, you stand the risk of being deported and serving jail time in America. But the questions begs, “How can these people really get a fair trial?” It’s said that the trial of arms dealer, Victor Bout was nothing more than a Kangaroo court where his defense was not allowed to properly defend him. I won’t be surprised if the same thing happens to the owners of Megaupload. Oh yeah, in Bout’s case, he was doing nothing related to the US and they say that he even worked for the US in the past flying into difficult areas (Iraq) to deliver food aide.
What’s next? Showing the benefits of relinquishment and renunciation is BAD? I wouldn’t doubt it.
So far, we have the countries who are super-cozy with America. In essence, these countries will hand over their own sovereignty and right to the US. They also can care less if the US wants to send their citizens to jail. Permanent residents are especially at risk:
1. The UK
2. Australia
3. New Zealand
4. Cost Rica
The countries that will only deport under SERIOUS diplomatic pressure (almost impossible to deport), mainly aliens or people on tourist visas:
1. Portugal
2. Brazil
3. Argentina
If anyone has a country to add to either list, just let me know.
Japan doesn’t deport its own citizens, though I imagine that permanent residents are fair game. France has famously refused to extradite Roman Polanksi, though I don’t know if that is due to his French citizenship or not. Wikipedia claims that the US lacks any extradition treaty whatsoever with the PRC, Namibia, UAE, North Korea, Bahrain and Cuba. Obviously only a couple on that list are desirable destinations, but you can do worse than living in Dubai or Beijing when the alternative is a US prison I guess.
Actually, I don’t know if you saw, but the Swiss refused to extradite Roman Polanski, and I saw some speculation on some sites that it was probably due to the pressure US has been giving Switzerland over their banks.
Ah, more info from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition
France, Germany, Austria, Russia, PRC, Taiwan and Japan all forbid the extradition of their own citizens. So what seems to always be important here is to have the citizenship of your host country and not just move there like the couple that were in Costa Rica.
The situation in Britian in many ways is reaching a boiling point politically with McKinnon et al, my sense is there is going to have be some type of re-negotiation someday. In Canada you have the Charter of Rights which comes into play with extradition although that tends to put a lot of the onus on the Supreme Court of Canada and its always hard to say where they come down on any one issue. Britain essentially has no bill of rights.
Brazil does not allow the extradition of Brazilian citizens or persons who are close relatives of a Brazilian citizen. Several years ago the British citizen, I have forgotten his name, who commited the Great Train Robery in Britain, whas discovered living in Brazil. He managed to delay the hearing on his extradition until his pregnant Brazilian girlfriend gave birth to his baby. That stopped cold his extradition and he was released. Severa years later the British sent secret agents to Brazil to and kidnapped him, secretly removing him from Baazil without Brazilian authorities being aware of it to return him to the UK for trial. They stopped in Barbados, a former colony on the way back to the UK As I recall call he was able to obtain his release through action of Barbados authorities as a result of thie “illegal” kidnapping. I have forgotten the details but remember when this happened.
This is actually going to read more like a summary…
@Mr. Conklin, my wife and most people in Brazil are familiar with the story of the British Train Robbery, but I am not, so I should read up on the issue. Brazilians know the system here not perfect and never will be. But there is no system that is perfect, not even the UK or the US, France, etc..
I’m very proud of what I have accomplished in Brazil. Most foreigners “last” here for about 1-2 years and go back to America, Canada, or the UK, or wherever they came from. I love my Brazilian children and I wouldn’t switch to any other country, even if they paid me. I have been here for 6 years, but it feels like 2.
I am proud that Brazil says “buzz off” to any country that tries to deport its citizens. Every country should look after the welfare of their citizens, but I think the US has lost sight of this, given how they treat us abroad. So I will have no problem at all tellling a Brazilian judge that I swear allegiance to Brazil. It hurts a little that the US would do this, but I guess that’s liife.
“If only we could make 1,000 clones of Roger Concklin…..”
We need more people who speak the truth. Thanks for commenting!
Totally agree with your assessment of Brazil. We lived there for 7 years before US tax laws forced me to bring my family and return back to the US. That was in 1977. I kept my Brazilian carteira de identidade de extranjero valid for 32 years after returning to the US by never being outside of Brazil for over the legal validitry limit or 2 years, but because of my Wife’s Alzeimers I could not make it back in time this last time it was about to expire so it has now lapsed. Our four children, who were all in their teens or pre-teens when we returned to the US have kept their Portuguese and, having also lived in Peru, their Spanish as well. We took our Peruvian maid with us when we moved to Brazil specifically so our children would not forget their Spanish. And the didn’t. They all are now in their late 40s and early 50s and they all have jobs where they used these languages on a daily basis. These are, in fact important assets to them in getting these jobs. I feel right at home the minute I step off the plane in either Rio or Sao Paulo. We lived both places when we were there and I traveled in my work to every part of Brazil from Manaus on the Amaon to Foz de Iguacu on the Argentine-Paraguay border. And the Brazilians are the most friendily and welcoming people anywhere in the world.
@ Geez. Let’s get real about Kim Schmitz – he is a serial crook, insider trader, liar and thief! That’s why he’s being extradited to the USA. It cold have been Germany, Hong Kong, or other places where he cheated millions of dollars from people. Did you actually read the Wikipedia bio on him?
Let’s be clear about the terminology: Schmitz is being extradited, not deported. Extradition is a bilateral criminal procedure which is governed by treaty. It means that the country’s police will hand you over to another country’s police. However in an extradition, you have the right to local court proceedings before you are extradited. If the judges will allow it he can go all the way to the country’s final appeals court.
Deportation is a unilateral matter of local immigration law. It means that the country’s immigration officer will revoke your permission of stay in their country. Often there’s no right of appeal besides an immigration tribunal. In countries which have “good relations” with the US, the US government will sometimes just request them to revoke the visa of a person of interest, in order to avoid the uncertainty and publicity of a formal extradition hearing.
In virtually all countries, foreigners can be both deported even if they are permanent residents (but in Hong Kong, PRs cannot be deported at all regardless of any crime — one more reason I’m so proud of this place). Also in virtually all countries, citizens absolutely cannot be deported. But there do exist countries in which citizens can be deported but cannot be extradited. (Taiwan is one of these: non-resident citizens, called “nationals without household registration”, are subject to the Immigration Act but not the Extradition Act!)
@Patrick.. yeah.. he’s no saint. How much the total cost will be, I have no idea, but I can easily estimate into the hundreds of thousands of dollars to prosecute this guy.
Should this be the responsibility of the US and the US taxpayer? I don’t think so. And I SERIOUSLY doubt the MPAA and RIAA are going to reimburse the US gov. for this. I’m against these two agencies as well. They have too much clout with the government, when they have made SERIOUS errors in the past.
But he was arrested for having this site, which is not a crime in a most countries. So I am against applying US law to the whole world, no matter how bad some people can be.
@Roger,
I’m renouncing US Citizenship to avoid being corralled back to America, which I sometimes suspect is the intention of these laws, especially with the FACTA.
I don’t HATE America or want REVENGE, after all, my parents live there. I just realize that it is very short-sighted decisions made by an incompetant government– that never seems to get better with a new president. Just because I renounce doesn’t mean that my name is erased from the public records or my native English abilities disappear. I’m still the same person who just wants to live his life (uma vida pacata) in a different country. I’m also in my mid-thirties and fed up with being held back by the government there.
But I have discovered, since coming to this site, the best “revenge” that anyone can get is to deny the US their penalty money by getting the word out to people who want to move to America or Americans who want to move abroad.
Geeeez,
I understand competely. One word of caution: When you go before the US consular official to formally renounce your citizenship, I suggest that you don’t mention the reason to be escaping US taxes. There is a law, I believe that is still on the books, which makes it mandatory for the official to refuse your renunciation if that is a reason for seeking to do so.
Correction, Geeez,
I should have said “….to deny your request to renounce.”
Roger
@Geeeez
How much longer do you have to wait to apply for Brazilian nationality, assuming that you want it? I just read on Wikipedia that they supposedly make people wait 15 years. Is there a reduction in the time if you are married? That is a very long amount of time to wait.
Of course I missed the answer to my own question but on a second read saw this:
“only one year’s residence is required for those who have a Brazilian spouse, parent, or child”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_nationality_law
Do you alreadly have Brazilian nationality? I just worry would about becoming stateless.
I wish you could edit these posts…obviously I meant worrying about becoming stateless after renouncing US citizenship.
@Roger, I have already been to the consulate once already. My main gripe is the FACTA because it limits my freedoms overseas. I’m also against all the wars.. aggressions, etc.. I’ve never owed anything to America, so taxes have left me unaffected here.
The told me to write a paragraph why I want to renounce, and it’s all ready to go!!
@Don, I was eligible a after 1 year of being married to my wife, but I had no idea that something like this FACTA was going to be rolled out, so I didn’t even care about Brazilian citizenship until recently. My only regret is that I didn’t do this 5 years ago!! My rights as a permanent resident are almost the same as a citizen. The only restrictions are the same as everywhere: cant vote (I don’t want to) and I can’t have a government job.
Yep, while the paperwork is being processed, I will be stateless. Am I scared? Not in the slightest way. Brazil won’t deport people who pay for Brazilian dependents because they know the family will starve, and the government is too greedy or cheap to pay for them. Bascially, the Brazilian government cares for its citizens. I can’t say the same for the US!!
Even if I’m technically “stateless” here, I wouldn’t consider myself stateless because I have all of the documentation for here, and a pending citizenship application. All of my documents are clean (No arrest record, I have paid all my taxes here with certifications, and I don’t have any lawsuits against me) so there’s not much doubt in my head that citizenship will be approved.
I think it’s sooooo ridiculous that I even have to do this. I can’t believe the US came out with these crazy laws to even push ANYONE to do such a thing.
@Eric, I just saw your comments (they took forever to get to my email account). I already fixed the title. I understand the differences, bu sometimes I mix up the words. Dohh!! Personally, I have to admire the countries and territories that flat-out tell the US “No!”. With this case, in particular, he wasn’t a US citizen and he wasn’t breaking the law (in most countries). Basically, the US just used New Zealand to do their dirty work. To make matters even more, this case is about corporate greed. The guy didn’t hurt a fly with what he was doing.
I have a question if my fiancee is being extradited from the US because Amsterdam wants him back there for mortgage fraud when his case is over in Amsterdam will he be allowed to come back to the US?
@estella,
If he is found innocent there should not be a problem, but best to consult a good immigration lawyer if he is found guilty. If he is Dutch citizen normally Dutch citizens can travel to the US to visit without a visa. But I am just speculating. If he is a green card holder I don’t know how this might affect his immigration status in the US. Best consult a top notch immigration lawer to understand the law and how it might affect his return.