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@Ms Deep South
What you propose sounds reasonable to me. File what you can electronically since you have so much time (LCUs) into this now, and follow up with an amended paper form later with just an explanation that their “blankety blank” system sucks, would not allow you to input, and so you had to amend. I say that, having long ago learned, that what seems logical and reasonable to me, does not apply to how the IRS/Treasury see the world. But, I think you would be fine. I wouldn’t lose sleep over it, and partake of too many adult beverages! LOL
@ Ms Deep South
“If it were up to me, I’d revoke my signatory authority to his accounts,
cash out all my accounts and put the money under my mattress, where it
would accrue about as much interest and capital gains as it is at
present. And I’d be sans the problem of reporting to the IRS and the
Dept of Treasury and any one else attempting to invade my privacy and
make my life expat life hell.”
I know how you feel. Take a deep breath and down a tall cool one. (BTW, I am the non-resident alien spouse but I prefer to say simply, I AM a Canadian — see Em in the Participants section below.) I was going to suggest zeros in the ID space but guess you already tried it. Hope you can get a special delivery from Germany to the USA in time. It does sound like you would squeak in with a Monday delivery, according to Just Me.
As for going for an amended FBAR I don’t think I’d try that. When we did my husband’s FBAR we put “N/A — Canadian citizen” in the ID number space for me (joint accounts), just as we have always done. There’s never been any feedback about that but things are always changing so we’ll see what happens this year.
I just received an email from UPS that I have been sent a package from the department of the Treasury and that it will arrive tomorrow.
Obviously FBAR related.
Should I be worried?
@Just a Canadian.
Did you file for the first time this year? Did you file multiple FBARs with reasonable cause letter?
Let us know what’s in there 🙂
Yes, I filed 3 years of fbars, a reasonable cause letter and I told them that for earlier years I did not meet the reporting threshold.
Thanks for sharing your experience with this disclosure. There hasn’t been many cases of people reporting what is happening when they do that.
It might be just a warning letter. That would be nice to share your story so people know what to expect. It might also help in their decision making process. Looking forward to hearing from you tomorrow.
Best.
Thats odd.
The tracking notification that I received that I thought was FROM the treasury department was actually a notification about a package being delivered TO the treasury department.
I did not send a package, actually I did but it was delivered 2 weeks ago via surface delivery. This package was sent overnight and arrived this morning. Todays package has a completely different tracking number.
I don’t know why I was notified but apparently Mrs. Delia V. requested that I be sent the status of the package. I don’t know any Delila V.
Maybe on Tuesday I will go to the UPS store by my office an see what is going on.
*BDO Canada trolling for customers with misleading information.
http://www.bizactions.com/n.cfm/page/e120/key/204492144G627J1656559P0P1755T2/
For Canadians that were not aware of the Form 8891 and did not file them for over 13 years, in regards to the new June 2012 announced IRS ruling for Canadians, is it necessary to file Form 8891s for all 13 years or just for the last 3 years? If the last 13 years I read something about another form that used to be required 3520 or something like that, is it then necessary to file whatever something like 8 years of 8891s and 5 years of 3520s?
@Virg
Those new rules that you speak about are only in very vague form right now. You can read more about the coming program here….
http://1.usa.gov/Lqr0y7
Also, you might be interested in Renounce’s Post called…
Something new (maybe) from the IRS for taxpayers residing outside the U.S. and who have NOT been filing tax returns and FBARs
Final rules for certain offshore U.S. Citizens are not supposed to be out until September, but, if they are anything like the IRS OVDP and OVDI programs, they will be needlessly complex and narrowly drawn and will leave it up to the IRS discretion whether or not you have any penalty risk for past non compliance.
In your situation, I probably would not be filing anything until I see what those Regs say.. Don’t be in such a hurry to turn yourself in until you understand more. The OVDP and OVDI were real traps, and this new program could be that too, if the IRS operates true to form.
*If FATCA gets implemented and the banks/governments start handing over the US persons details who are NOT tax compliant (FBAR etc) does this mean that the US will seize expats assets in their country where they live? OR is this a violation of law?
If there is no way to stop FATCA, at least, what foreign governements should negociate, is a garantee that the people they’re giving the names away are not going to be executed financially: i.e. no FBAR penalties, and amnesty for past non compliance, especially for minor taxes due. After all, many governments refuse to extradite people to governments that might execute them. And as a matter of principle, they should require reciprocity and put the same burden on US banks.
*Does anyone know what the IRS means by “qualified electing fund”? I would really like to comply but I don’t know what they are saying!
@banany: QEF means you checked Part I, Item A on Form 8621. If you never remember checking this box (e.g. because you’ve held the asset for many years but this is the first time you’re filing the form), then you have a “Section 1291 fund”, not a QEF.
You can choose to make it a QEF in future years, but IIRC you first have to exorcise the evil PFIC demons (the IRS’ official terminology is “purge”) by making an election to recognise past gain — in most cases that means Part I, Item B.
Phil Hodgen has a good series of posts on PFICs:
http://hodgen.com/category/pfic/
edit: above I’ll use the Part and Item numbers for the old version of Form 8621 applicable to 2011 and earlier tax years. If you’re talking about 2012 or later tax years, then refer to the 2012 draft version — in which you will check Part II, Item A to make a QEF election, and Part II, Item C to purge Section 1291 status
*Thank you Eric, for responding to my SOS. I am dog paddling in a sea of IRS terminology trying to figure it all out. I wish I had never invested in anything.
*I sold my land overseas in Oct 2010 and deposited the money (300K) in bank account. I had no idea about FBAR and didn’t reported in 2011 for my 2010 tax return. Should I file a quit disclosure?? I was clean before oct 2010
what are my chances of escaping the 27.5% penalty
Thanks
@eeter…
I think you got the best answer, from one of the best Practitioners around, over at Jack Townsend’s blog. I could not add more to what he said. The decision on what to do, is not an easy one, and will require you to do a bit of personal drudgery to understand your options. 27.5% is ridiculous, for sure. Unfortunately, you are going to have to spend some LCUs and probably some good actual $$$ for expert advice. However, you have already asked the right person here…
@UPSET
If FATCA gets implemented and the banks/governments start handing over
the US persons details who are NOT tax compliant (FBAR etc) does this
mean that the US will seize expats assets in their country where they
live? OR is this a violation of law?
CAN’T HAPPEN IN CANADA AND MAYBE OTHER NATIONS.
*According to what I read, FFI’s ( foreign banks) will only give the IRS info regarding accounts larger than 50k? so if I have two accounts in two different banks 40 k each ( total is 80k in both)
read this:
“……A distinction needs to be made between deposit accounts with an average monthly balance of less than USD 50,000 (“small accounts”) and all other accounts. Basically, “accounts” constitute all deposit accounts and deposit relationships as well as – in certain cases – investments in the FFI. Whereas the “small accounts” can be treated by the FFI as non-US accounts, all other customer information relating to accounts must undergo a search for indicia….”
The banks will not deliver the account info to the IRS…??? did I get it wrong?
*You got it right. It gets better. Between 50k and 1MM they only have to do a so called electronic search for US indicia These include US address, forwarding address and so on. If none are on file, no worries.
@eeter I think the most important word in your post was “can”. PFFI’s CAN elect to treat accounts lower than 50’000USD as non-US. Now, If I were a banker, and believe me Im not, I would most likely do a search on ALL of my customer base and report all US customers who waive their right to secrecy or dump those who don’t. Because the banks are in business to make the most amout of money with a minimum of risk and when dealing with the IRS and DOJ it is better to be safe than sorry.
*UncleTell
……. report all US customers who waive their right to secrecy or dump those who don’t.
So if all customer do NOT waive their right to secrecy ( highly likely). They will be dumped and nobody will be reported??
*eeter I think banks, at least here in Switzerland, will start to weed out their US customers. If you decline to sign a waiver of your secrecy rights the bank will drop you and will not report you because you didn’t waive your rights. You will just have to try to find a different bank. If you are a dual citizen you might have to lie about your US person status and see what happens if and when for some reason the find out you are a US person. This is more or less the situation I’m in right now. My bank doesn’t know that I’m a dual Swiss / US citizen and my mortgage will be up for renewal soon. If they don’t ask me about my US person status well that’s their problem not mine, but if they do ask me I’m not sure yet what my response will be.
@Uncle Tell
Why don’t you change your name (in effect identity) in Switzerland and declare non-US person status.
As far as I know, there is no international law that regulates multiple nationalities (nor multiple names).
@CHF forever
Good idea, Ill probably go crazy though trying to choose between Meyer, Meier, Mair, Müller ……… 😳