Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
Please note that the guidelines for this discussion are published here.
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
Please note that the guidelines for this discussion are published here.
@ Petros
You are spot on about evil and corruption in the USA and unfortunately Canada has turned toward the dark side too, as it tries to placate and follow its global masters. I know that many people reading and writing at this site don’t know the full extent of the descent (IRS tyranny is only one part of it). They are still enmeshed in the gears of the poopaganda machine which is driven by the corporate media. Some continue to believe we live in a democracy and that voting makes a difference. Some still don’t know what really happened to the banking system and and how all wars are predicated on deception. Once a person has awakened, it is impossible to sleep peacefully so I actually do not think unkindly of those who are not fully aware of the ugly truth yet. They will get there eventually but in the meantime I say let sleeping cogs lie because at least their strength is not being drained by angst and rage. As for me, I am on a steep learning curve right now and often when I think I have successfully unravelled a thread of truth I find more information which makes me do a rethink. Now I’m not implying that resistance is futile, I’m only saying it hasn’t gathered all its forces together yet. Hope is still afloat.
I know, I know. I should go back to my silent place but one more thing — I want everyone to know that all the efforts here to thrash through the IRS mess are a good step toward a greater goal. 🙂
@Schimm,
Further to Pacifica and Petros,
I have gotten word that this reflects direct experience of two separate 2012 renunciations at Vancouver
consulate. They seem routinely to inform renunciants that a Form 8854 will be
provided in the furnished prepaid envelope along with the CLN, cancelled
passport, etc.
@Calgary411 —
They tell relinquishers the same thing. Along with the CLN and copies of all the forms and signed oaths they will include form 8854. Our clerk said the only reason they didn’t hand us a copy of the tax form at the 2nd interview is because the form keeps changing — and since we might not see the CLN for another 12 months, no point in supplying something that might be out of date.
We don’t care. We’re not filling that form out anyway. It didn’t exist in 1974. Didn’t tell them that of course.
DW
*
A more appropriate place to post this:
Wikipedia: “List of former United States citizens who relinquished their nationality”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_United_States_citizens_who_relinquished_their_nationality
The list includes some pretty famous people like Yul Brynner, Jet Li and Queen Noor.
*
*@anyone,We hate to be so stupid but, Son is making a appointment to Renounce, BORN in Canada,(Accidental US Citizen) On the appointment page on US Consulate, questions asked Country of Citizenship and Country of Birth.. for Country of Citizenship you can only pick one answer, so should it be Canada or US. Cannot be Dual US/Canada..
Thanks for your time..
@saddened,
Your son was born in Canada. If there are only alternatives of US or Canada for their question on citizenship, I would give his citizenship as Canadian. That is what he has (probably) considered himself from his birth and the reason he is now renouncing the extraneous supposed US citizenship. But, that is me and the reasoning I would take. It does not necessarily jive with what the US thinks he should choose. I don’t think it is any biggie. If he is asked, he can explain to them why he chose Canadian (or US) as his citizenship according to what he himself thinks and feels.
*Calgary, Thank you for your time.. we just didn’t know for sure..
@saddened,
…nor do I know for sure, but that is just what I would do. I don’t see it as really that important. If they don’t give you the choice of “dual Canadian-US”, then they have to accept whatever common sense of the person renouncing dictates.
*@All, My son made his on line appointment for Renunciation. My question is this, do they contact him by email or phone?? because the appointment form does not ask what the appointment is for. I am sure this has been discussed, but I am too lazy to look through all the posts. Thanks in Advance!!
Hi Saddened, I wondered about that also. I spoke with a staffer at TO on the phone in the Spring and asked how to book an appt. He said to just book on line for “notarial and other services,” which sounded pretty vague to me. But he said, no problem, just book and then just go to the appointment with your documents. Which is what happened. I didn’t hear from the consulate by e-mail or phone, showed up with my documents, and it went perfectly smooth. Dunno if it’s changed since then, though, but that was my experience.
@saddened,
Did you son give his email address and phone number? Each Consulate has different procedures. Hopefully they will contact him to confirm the appointment he made — or he should try to contact them to confirm and get further information. It would be better for him to know what he needs for his appointment so he has everything he needs to bring with him (and he can check on the Consulate Report Directory here for experiences of those before him). For Calgary, they want a form filled out and faxed in before the appointment. Emphasis is “each Consulate is different” — no standard procedure. Good luck!
*@Pacifica and Calgary, Thank you so much for your replies.. he did put his email and phone number on the form. I guess he will just fill out the renunciation forms and take them the day of the appointment. Maybe he can call just too make sure. It is strange to me that the online appointment form does not ask why you want a appointment..
He had to print off the appointment form so that he can bring it with him..This is the Toronto Consulate..he also wanted me to ask how long the appointment last?? I have read other’s say 30 minutes. He is very nervous about the whole thing. I told him it is probably very simple, they probably just go over the forms with him and have him come back for a 2nd Appointment after he thinks about it, which is stupid but I guess he has to follow the procedure..Thank you very much we really appreciate your help..
@saddened123
When I made the first appt for my son in Toronto, I put Canadian. It is standard to check the box for “notorial and other services not listed.” Of course, he cancelled. <sigh>
They are unlikely to contact you prior to the appt; however, if you have a question, just email them. They respond quickly. Probably a good idea to ask them about the documents however, I have put aside my son’s long-form birth certificate, the Report of Birth Abroad, the Certificate of Birth Abroad, an expired US-passport, his current CDN passport and his social security card. Mrs. A had sent me the forms in the mail which included a non-numbered information form, plus DS 4079, 4080, 4081 & 4083. I thought I had scanned and kept blank forms but I can’t find them on my computer. If I find, I’ll email them to you.
If you want to go over anything pls contact me. Even having coffee just before he goes, or holding your hand outside while you wait. What worries me is that my son has no experience of the mindset he will be dealing with if he does it in Ottawa. He is a rather confident sort, guaranteed to offend the exceptional attitude sure to be displayed if he’s cheeky. In Toronto, I know I won’t have to worry about that.
forgot to mention, just for general info, October and November are completely booked in Toronto and the December schedule is out -last day is Dec 17. Seems they have gotten busier, wonder why? 😉
@saddened,
All the forms are available and printable from the Consulate Report Directory: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/24/consulate-visit-report-directory/, click on the Department of State Forms on the index to the report. There is also much valuable information there on experiences of others as reported here at Isaac Brock. If your son is nervous, and that is entirely normal, it will help if he acquaints himself with others’ experiences in Toronto in preparaton for his appointment.
(I can’t give much advice on using the ‘notarial and other services’ on the website. In Calgary, I did everything by email and got almost immediate responses, which made it easy and straight forward for me.)
*@Noble, Thank you so much for the reply. I really appreciate your support..we need all the support we can get. I am sure I will have lots of questions that will need your help..
It will be great to meet you and have coffee. I will keep in touch.
Thanks Noble!
*@Calgary, Thank you so much! I will have him read over other’s experiences.
You have been a great help!!
@saddened,
Credit should go to Pacifica as she is the one who compiles all the experiences reported at Isaac Brock for this one place, the Consulate Report Directory, a valuable document for those making their decisions to renounce or relinquish.
Thanks, Pacifica. We hope it helps your son prepare for his appointment in Toronto.
*@Pacifica, Thank you very much for all your help!! Calgary you are always a very kind and helpful person as well..
@all – If it helps at all, I had two appointments in Toronto last winter, and they were completely nonjudgmental. Not sure how much of this is professionalism, how much the sheer number of renunciants has normalized things.
@A broken man
My feeling was that they were actually compassionate-at least Mrs. A. was. The vice-consul felt we simply identified more with Canada and that was no big deal. The cashier was completely empathetic. So for me, professional yes, but actually much more. They were “real.”
Thank you, Saddened, andCalgary . And thanks, too, Calgary , for your work compiling our consulate statistics.
Saddened, the staff I interacted with atToronto were really nice people, and that seems to be totally consistent with our other reports on Toronto . As Noble Dreamer mentioned, the vice consul she met with “felt we simply identified more with Canada .” Certainly they would understand that your Canadian-born son does. I walked out of Toronto consulate actually feeling pleasantly about the United States , which is rather amazing given the grief and upheaval that country has caused in my life. That’s how positive my experience was there, definitely decent people, helping you resolve an administrative matter in a professional and friendly way.
*Hi I have been reading thru these experiences I have a question about the forms and the papers i have to bring. I was born in the states but came to canada when I was 14. I am a landed immigrant.So I have lived in Canada for 41 years. I have a us passport and a birth certificate but no social security number. I am a landed immigrant here, and I have just recently applied for canadian citizen ship as all my kids have finally moved out and I had time and energy to get it done:) do I need a social secruity number to reliquish my US citizenship? and is there any cost involved in doing so? somebody told me it is better to relinquish rather then renounce my US citizen ship could somebody explain the difference to me? thanks everybody
I have one more question I visit my daughter in Calgary all the time could I go and either renounce or relinquish there even though i live near vancouver?
@Jeannie,
At Relinquish Don’t Renounce if You Can: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/12/relinquish-dont-renounce-if-you-can/
Here is the latest comment on what you are asking,