Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
Please note that the guidelines for this discussion are published here.
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
Please note that the guidelines for this discussion are published here.
Does anyone know what the deal is for expired green card holders? If your green card has expired are you no longer a “US Person”?
@ Minnow
Apparently a green card isn’t expired until they say it’s expired. It has to be returned along with a form I-407. I believed for many years my card was expired but I didn’t know about I-407 until a few months ago. (Please see my story under the Participants section below.) I’ve sent the I-407 in and I’m still waiting for a response from USCIS. I recently sent a reminder letter to USCIS too so maybe that will get them going — hope so.
@Minnow, presumably you mean holders of expired green cards rather than, say, dead former LPRs? 🙂
There’s information here, though possibly not the answer you are looking for.
“…even if the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS) no longer recognizes the validity of your green card because you have been absent from the United States for a certain period of time or the green card is more than ten years old, you must continue to file tax returns …”
Hi Minnow: A green card holder is a US person. But if said green card holder returns to country of origin, has no Social Security or other pensions in US, no assets in the US, and green card holder is not known as a US person, then why would green card holder care about being a US person?
I had to laugh at Watcher’s quote: “you must continue to file tax returns … ” Who’s gonna make me? LOL. The US can make laws that you can’t take boxes out of your Ontario office. But can they enforce them?
@Watcher: thank you, that is exactly what I was after.Sigh, they sure make it difficult!
@ Petros
I know one thing, if the USCIS fails to acknowledge my I-407 (I have proof they received it 2 months ago) then I can honestly say I am not a green card holder because they have the darn thing now. I intend to go on with my life and that doesn’t include having the IRS in it. Since we sent a note on our tax return forms for many years saying I was a FORMER resident alien (that was what I genuinely thought I was) I don’t expect to have too much trouble changing things from married filing jointly to my husband filing separately and me not filing at all. Well I hope that’s the case anyway. As you say, “Who’s gonna make me?” I have no connection to the USA other than through my husband’s current American citizenship which he is in the process of dumping.
*@Em, If I may ask a question?? has your husband heard anything about his Canadian Citizenship being received or processed.. I sent my info off 9 months ago and it has not been processed but show’s it has been received.. I hate the wait.. I want it now..
@ saddened123
My husband received a letter indicating his application has entered into the process (included a Client ID number) but I expect it will be many months before he actually receives his citizenship papers. We hate the waiting part too. I’ve heard it can take anywhere from 12 to 18 months — that’s a long time in my books. Hope you get yours soon! My husband is only 3 months into the process at this point. BTW, have you tried the website to get an update? It’s http://www.cic.gc.ca.
*@EM, yes I visit that website several time’s a week and all it says is received..I would have thought it would be in the process stage by now.. so your husbands says processing??
*@Saddened –
This site may be helpful – http://www.immigration.ca/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=3&title=canadian-citizenship
@ saddened 123: My husband hasn’t checked the website yet. He thought it was too soon. The letter he received said, “The application and documents will now be reviewed and we will contact you if additional information is required.” That’s it so far. I’ll try to persuade my husband to do the sign in on the website tomorrow and let you know what it says.
*@Em, Thank you!!
*Question – is it easier and faster to do a renouncing or a relinquishing, assuming there is case for relinquishing?
*I would think relinquishing ought to be faster because it only entails one visit on the Consulate and not two. Given that you’re supposed to have several months between the 1st and 2nd visits so you can contemplate exactly what you’re proposing giving up, the relinquishment should be quicker in at least getting the paperwork into the system. With relinquishment you’re (hopefully) presenting them with a “fait accompli” of the situation, negating the necessity for a 2nd visit in a few months’ time. Whether it will actually speed up the final delivery of that precious CLN is another matter.
Hi, Renounce Planner, If one has already relinquished one’s citizenship, they have
two options: notify the consulate of their relinquishment, or they can formally renounce (sounds weird, but that’s what the State Dept website says). Obviously if one has not relinquished it, their only option is to renounce.
Length of time to receive CLN seems to be the same for either renunciations or relinquishments. The variable factor seems to be what country/consulate you filed your application at. See Relinquishment and Renunciation Data for a timeline chart.
@ saddened123
My husband just checked the CIC website and his status is listed just like yours as merely “received”. So the long wait continues. On the other side of the border my I-407 sits in limbo. There all I have is the address I sent it to — no phone number, no e-mail address, no letter of receipt and no way to do a status check on the computer. It was sent by registered mail so I know it was received but I wish I could do a status check such as Canada provides for its citizenship applicants. I thought I read here at IBS where someone over in Europe got his/her stamped I-407 in a matter of weeks but I’ve been waiting nearly 3 months now. The wheels of bureaucracy can turn agonizingly slow I’m afraid.
At the Toronto consulate, should appointments for relinquishment (not renunciation) be booked via “Notarial Services” on the Citizen Services Appointments page (as some earlier posts seem to imply)? Some of the documents to bring are obvious, but is there a list of them somewhere, official or unofficial? The consulate web site and telephone are less than helpful on these points.
@ hoskin, I contacted the email address for the Consulate. I told them that I wished to inform them of my relinquishment of US citizenship. I received a phone call from Mrs. A (now retired) within the day. They can answer the questions. I mention the forms with links to them in this post about my visit to the Toronto Consulate, April 7, 2011.
Hi Hoskin, We have reports from seven people who relinquished at Toronto in the Consulate Report Directory, pages 15-24, which you might want to have a look at, in terms of what to bring and what to expect.
I phoned Toronto and asked how to book my relinquishment appointment in April, and at that time they told me book online for notarial services, and I got an appointment in May. They needed proof of US citizenship (US passport, current or expired, if you have one — I don’t, so I brought US birth certificate), proof of Canadian citizenship (I brought passport and citizenship certificate and my citizenship card — don’t know as the card was necessary, but figured better to bring too much than too little) and I had my 4079 and 4081 filled out ahead of time along with my affidavit.
BTW, I think the line on their website about all renunciation appointments being at 10:30 am is probably out of date. It’s said that since last year, but I know that in May this year they were doing a lot of them in the afternoon.
@hoskin -“Request notarial and other services not listed above.” In my case the admirable Mrs. Anderson asked what this was, I said it was a renunciation, and she explained what to bring. There seem to be lots of slots open in September.
I did the 4079 (which may need some looking up of dates and so on, and is easier to do on your own time) and they did the 4081.
*@Em, Thank you for the reply, it is a miserable waiting game and I don’t want to play anymore. I want it over as I know you and your husband do. I guess there is nothing to do but wait.. Oh Well!!
@ Hoskin, Yeah, as Halifax Pier points out, although I filled out my 4081, the consulate easily can; and they’ll do the 4083 (the actual CLN); and as he recommends it’s definitely best to do your 4079 in advance (as you’ll likely want to check your records or mull over your brain regarding dates and details on the questionnaire – a bit pesky, but also a bit of a trip down memory lane).
Here are the US State Department inter-agency coordination procedures for Certification of Loss of Nationality (CLN), from June 29, 2012. Possibly of interest:
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/113465.pdf
*I have a few questions about Form 4079, questions 18, 19, and 16.
Question 18 asks “Did you perform the act or acts voluntarily?” My answer is yes, because I did, but I did not perform it with the intent to relinquish citizenship (at that time) so I will check “no” to that.
Question 19 asks “Did you know that by performing the act described in Questions 8 – 18 you might lose citizenship? Please explain your answer.” I understand how this question relates to those who relinquish, but for those of us who renounce it seems a bit weird. I did not know that by performing those acts I might lose US citizenship and that was not my intent at the time, anyway, so I’m not sure what to put for this answer other than just saying “No.” How have other renunciants handled this question?
Question 16 asks if I have renounced my US nationality at a US Consulate and I’m assuming I leave this blank as that will be the reason why I’m at the appointment.
Thanks!
By the way, I made my first appointment, but I have to wait many weeks.
*I was born in US in 1953, both parents were Canadian. Have a Canadian Certificate of birth abroad. Moved back to Canada when I was a child. Canada did not allow duel citizenship untill 1977 from what I understand. I got a canadian passport in 1972 when I was 19. I have never worked applied for a US passport. I Have only vacationed in the US longest stay 2 weeks. My question I would like to relinquish and have the CLN dated in 1972 when I got my Canadian passport. Since I knew I wanted to be Canadian only and at that time I was.