Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
Please note that the guidelines for this discussion are published here.
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
Please note that the guidelines for this discussion are published here.
@ tiger
Well that sounds promising. Thanks for the information.
my mother was born in the US and stupidly, when I was around 30 and not properly thinking, I applied and received a us passport (many moons ago, never renewed and its now would be a few decades old), otherwise born, raised and am Canadian through and through. I have never lived in the us and have only worked for a us company overseas, for about 6 months and filed us tax for that one year only, which was a few decades ago. I wanted to correct my mistake of physically obtaining a passport a number of years ago, and stupidly made my second mistake of never following through. So I am now trying to correct things and am torn between hanging in the shadows and hoping things improve or relinquishing (not renouncing!). Do I qualify for this AND for point “2” below, and if so, how does one go about doing this? Is this something I do in a canadian lawyers office? if not, then who? Thanky you !
(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or
*I just wrote a letter and an email to Jim Flaherty. This is it.
Honorable Jim Flaherty,
Minister of Finance
Hill Office
House of Commons
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0A6
Dear Honorable Jim Flaherty,
Finance Minister:
I recently learned that Canadian dual citizens (U.S.A./Canadian) are required to file American income taxes and register their bank accounts with the IRS. Furthermore, the IRS intends to impose a fine of ten thousand dollars for each Canadian bank account
not registered with them. As if that were not bad enough, through FATCA they are threatening to freeze bank accounts and force Canadian banks to divulge personal account information . How is any of this legal and what happened to Canadian sovereignty? How is it that the IRS can threaten to penalize OUR CANADIAN BANKS for not ratting out customers?
The IRS also states that even if dual Canadian/American citizens renounce their U.S.A. citizenship, they can still be taxed for ten years.
Has Canada secretly merged with the United States during some behind closed door meeting What is Canada going to do to prevent these FATCA outrages and protect its citizens from such extortion? Most dual citizens were never informed that they had to pay American taxes and file their bank accounts at any time of their residence here. This appears to me to be totally illegal and criminal on the part of the IRS.
I am 64 years old and was about to retire. I have lived in Canada since 1972 and have no ties to the United States. I own nothing in that country. This is tantamount to paying the neighbours rent. I am a naturalized Canadian citizen since 2005 and I am downright livid about this monstrous outrage.
Please tell me what Canada is prepared to do to protect its citizens whether they be dual
Canadian/U.S.A. or recently expatriated from the U.S.A.
Good letter Banany! IF you get a reply let us know. Many of us haven’t (me included). If you do get a reply it will probably be in praise of the progress (???) the IRS has made in addressing the issue but frankly even though Flaherty is happy, I am not amused. There is a huge injustice and the IRS used a half hearted FAQ to appease us — it didn’t.
*Do nothing…
*The USA has 10,000,000. illegal aliens. There are millions of legal immigrants and green card holders living in the US. A large number of them have unreported accounts at home where they came from. The bureaucracy is going to have to deal with 30,000,000 new medicare/medicaid registrants. They will also have to deal with millions of new FBARs.
The IRS has hundreds of thousands of fraudulent claims for refunds every year.
The courts , in a very few cases that have gone that far, have set a very high bar for them to prove wilful criminal behaviour.
Now, who among you seriously believes they have the time, interest or resources to go after minnows resident in foreign countries unless the minnow jumps into their net. Sayanara everybody. It’s been a hoot and a real education.
@IamCanadian
I do not believe you would qualify to ‘relinquish’. Having been born in Canada to an American mother, you are what is considered an ‘accidental american’. There are specific ‘expatriating acts’ that one can commit that allows ‘relinquishment’. For example, taking out the citizenship of another country (ie Canada) voluntarily and with the intent to relinquish your American citizenship. You are not a ‘naturalized’ Canadian but were born in Canada therefore you did not commit an expatriating act and therefore cannon relinquish.
As an accidental American you probably could choose to ignore the whole situation (assuming your financial institution does not believe you to be American). If you feel you are unable to do that, then you have the option to go to a U.S. consulate and RENOUNCE your U.S. citizenship.
IamCanadian –
I would be astonished if the United States would allow you to exit their books without renunciation, especially after acquisition of that little blue book, unless you can put together a strong case for one of the expatriating intentional acts – which, for you, as tiger says, would NOT include having acquired Canadian citizenship. You were too young to intend!
*Joe Smith, Tiger and Usxcanada… Thank you for your notes! Darn. I don’t want to file the taxes required for re-nunciation, nor be on their radar (which I could be anyway, even though the passport was only used once over 20 years ago) as I don’t want to support American wars nor the American government. My option is then, I guess, is just to lie low and begin planning where to bury my non-millions so that I can retain the funds to happily continue to pay my Canadian taxes, and keep it out of the creeping hands of the US. Thank you again. This site is a god-send and I will be a steady reader in order to try to keep up with the latest efforts.
@IAmCanadian: I agree with Joe Smith. Do nothing. Although you once had a US passport, there really is no reason for you to be on IRS radar now. CRA will not collect any FBAR penalties or tax liability for the IRS on a Canadian citizen.
You were born in Canada, so your bank has no reason to believe you may be a “US person” under FATCA (if they dare to ask where you were born.)
Simplify your life. As Schubert says, “Don’t Wake The Sleeping Bear!”
However, if, for some reason, you want to nudge The Sleeping Bear, as Tiger said, it appears your only option is to renounce because you never committed an expatriating act to qualify to relinquish..
@Blaze: thank you for your note. I certainly do not want to nudge a sleeping bear! I have a somewhat simple life and have no desire to change that aspect of it. I happily file and pay my Cdn taxes every year and the intrusion of another country and the bully tactics is unbelievable to anyone except those to whom the net is being thrown at.
*@IamCanadian – I’m in a similar situation (Canadian, USC parent, foolishly took out a US passport.) I renounced, but I wonder if the declaration of citizenship in a Canadian passport application would suffice for an expatriating act, if you said that you intended it to be. It’s worth trying.
*If I were going through the processes again, I would write a statement this time. I would mention my Canadian passport application, I would also mention that I acted as a guarantor on numerous other passport applications for friends and family. I would put down every Canadian thing I ever did that might be a relinquishing act. And most important I would say I did them voluntarily with the intent to relinquish!
@IamCanadian
There is no way that they know you are a “American” Period. If you have ANY concerns about them asking you questions at the border, then avoid the border.
Europe is MUCH more interesting anyway!
@IamCanadian
usxcanada SAID I would be astonished if the United States would allow you to exit their books without …
Absurd!
YOU ARE NOT ON THEIR BOOKS!!!
@BrokenMan and TrueNorth
I’m also wondering if I were to re-affirm my Canadian citizenship in some sort of ceremony (like remarrying your husband), and during which one stated their allegiance only to the Cdn flag and Canadian government (and Queen of Canada) if it would also hold some merit for relinquishing… I’d really hate to have to renounce and will do nothing first (ie lay low) if relinquishing is not an option. But I’d love to relinquish if I could. TrueNorth – did you relinquish, or did you renounce?
Its amazing to me that Cdn taxpayers and Cdn citizens have to work so hard to get out of the clutches of the us-of-a, when there are a line up of people wanting in…. It would be great if I could just give what I don’t want at all, to someone who desperately wants it.
@Chester 12
“Now, who among you seriously believes they have the time, interest or resources to go after minnows resident in foreign countries unless the minnow jumps into their net.”
I TOTALLY AGREE. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN. IN ANY EVENT THOSE MINNOWS PANICKING WILL KEEP AUTHORITIES BUSY UNTIL WE OSTRICHES ALL ARE DEAD AND BURIED.
@ Joe Smith – I am on their books if they look back 20 years to my one and only us tax filing, or see my old (20 year ago) passport app. I also have to remind my sister, who lives in the us and is married to an american, to never mention any other family members, ever, to any organization. My non-american husband who obtained his cdn citizenship last year, is completely incensed at all of this, and I know he wants me to do absolutely nothing… but if I ever feel a net closing in I want to understand my options, if I have any. I hope I can just be a “minnow” and not have the radar on me, and if so I have a wild dream of taking all of my funds out of the bank, quitting my job, and living a nomad lifestyle for a number of years and THEN filing under much duress but happy in knowing that whatever I have at that point, will be in the underground economy. Hopefully at that time technology will not have advanced enough that blood can be taken from a stone.
*I WORKED ONE YEAR IN THE USA IN 1975, FILED THEN AND NEVER HEARD A PEEP SINCE. And I was born there! You were not. Chill out! 🙂
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 300,000,000 PERSONS IN THE USA PLUS ALL OF US ABROAD. EVEN SOME JEWS LIVED THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE SECOND WORLD WAR IN BERLIN WITHOUT BEING FOUND! What kind of net will close on you? Who is your MP? I wish I were in your situation!
*@IamCanadian, I think others on here have said that they have attended citizenship ceremonies and retaken the oath. If you took the oath when becoming Canadian, the view is it is a routine oath and not necessarily a relinquishing act unless yo say otherwise. If you retake the oath, or take it for the first time because you were Canadian by birth with the sole purpose of relinquishing and tell them so, I would say that is good enough. I would try get some documentation, perhaps if you tell them why you wish to retake the oath they may be sympathetic. This might be a good way for people with no other relinquishing acts in the past to save $450.00 🙂 In answer to your other question, I renounced. Can I ask why you want to relinquish and not renounce, is it just the $450. I wanted to relinquish because the date was decades ago.
@TrueNorth, If I understand the process correctly (I am only learning) renouncing requires all of the paperwork and accountant’s costs for backfiling, plus stating your bank account locations etc., as well as entering a us consulate, which I think is considered US soil. And again if I understand things correctly, if you qualify for relinquishing, you don’t have to do this in a us consulate…nor do all of the filing for past years – but I could be mistaken of course. Otherwise, 450.00 is very inexpensive for what you get for it – so its not the money, though its somewhat like the door hitting you as you leave.
In the meantime…
Canadian Playboy Playmate and former girlfriend of Hugh Hefner granted U.S. ‘Genius’ visa
🙂
@IamCanadian
For those of us who have performed an expatriating act (sometime in the past), we still have paperwork (2 forms 4079 and 4081) to fill out and we also must go to a U.S. consulate. Both renouncing and relinquishing must be done outside of the United States at either an embassy or a consulate. Most of the consulates in Canada require two appointments for renouncing and one appointment for relinquishment. However, the Vancouver consulate requires two appointments for both renouncing and relinquishment.
If your aversion to renouncing is being on U.S. soil, there is no way to avoid it by relinquishing. Also, even in the case of relinquishing, the date on the CLN would be the date of the relinquishing act. If that is in the present time, the IRS would still expect tax forms. So for you I really see the only difference between renouncing and relinquishing is the $450 fee.
I think you need to read more on this site and then make a decision on whether you really need to do anything at all. Your passport is 20 years old and expired now. Your birthplace is Canada. As Blaze said, perhaps ‘you should just not wake the sleeping bear.’
*Unless the relinquishment was sometime in the past, I don’t think there is much difference other than the cost. When you say paperwork and accountants, I assume you mean for taxes and FBAR’s. I think each of us is taking our own approach, some want or think they must complete taxes first, I on the other hand renounced first and am still deciding if I will ever file taxes. If I do file I will not spend a penny on an accountant, I will do it myself to the best of my ability, if I make a mistake or two so what. Renouncing or relinquishing must both be done at a consulate. The US soil thing is a myth, you will be in Canada. The process itself is simple, you can do it yourself without a lawyer, and the consulate staff are friendly at best and professional at worst. Take a the Renunciation Guide link.